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> Fusion, Discussion, BTs, Takes etc
kjutte
post Nov 18 2008, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Nov 18 2008, 06:37 AM) *
Hmm,I not quite sure what harmonization theory is,you think of harmony in general?
Anyhow,every kind of knowledge is good,same goes for harmonization theory or what else,
perhaps you just haven't messed enough with more complex progressions etc. smile.gif


Actually, nevermind. I mistook this for something else smile.gif thanks though muris!
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Gaf
post Nov 18 2008, 03:30 PM
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Hello Muris!
Thanks for your quick reply I think your thought process will help me a lot, I'll give it a whirl.

I find it clumsy to keep changing scales when playing through changes I'm not familiar with. Is there an easy way to find scales with "common ground" when attacking an unfamiliar sequence, or should I be writing out the chord tones and trying to find altered scales with the most in common?

Do you have any practice routines that you used to use when studying new harmonies?

I've heard of passing notes and clash tones before but what are clusters? Is it like how a pianist would think about note choice? Do you have an example?

I'll have more questions regarding the next 2 sections of the song (Sponge) when I've explored what you have suggested and feel comfortable with the groove. Thanks for the help. Cheers.

John


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Gaf
post Nov 25 2008, 06:29 PM
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Heya Muris,

Ok the B section (Sponge):

The progression bounces back and forth between Eb/A (Eb with b5) Db/A (Db with #5) for 2 bars then Eb/B (Eb with #5) Db/B (Db with b5) for two bars with a rather bouncy unstable feel. Over the first two bars the horns are playing a motif in F and the second bars the motif is in G.

So Eb F G Ab A Bb Db and Ab Bb B Db Eb F G are what we have to work with (hope that's all correct).

Would these chords imply a hybrid scale composed of half/whole diminished and Lydian augmented?

Do you have any suggestions on how to attack this from a lick or sequence point of view rather than chord tones? Can you see something simple in this mix maybe something from the altered dominant implications? I haven’t used Melodic minor enough to know what I can do yet.

Have you any thoughts on my previous post? Again, thanks so much for your help. Cheers.

John

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Muris Varajic
post Nov 25 2008, 08:46 PM
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Hi John.

Here's what I've done so far to understand some things
related to tricky harmonies,playing over them etc.
First of all, listen to what composer has played over it.
learn every single note and do good and deep analyze.
This approach is very useful it would be totally wrong
to try anything without knowing what man who composed it
played over same progression.
And I'm not talking only about main theme,brass hits etc,
I'm talking about solos,improvisations etc.
Once you figure out what they are doing
your eyes will be much wider open for your own
approach to the same matter.

I could have answered to your questions more specificly
but I would need to write a book about
everything that you can play over progressions
that you mentioned,
that's gray territory,almost all weapons are allowed until it really hurts. smile.gif


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Gaf
post Nov 26 2008, 02:11 PM
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Heya Muris,
Thanks for your reply. I know my questions are not the easy type, believe me if I I could find a fusion teacher, or any teacher for that matter in my city that had experience with the progressions I listen to I would not be bothering you with these questions.

I have scoured the web, read many books on harmony have played for 16 years yet still can't find the info I seek. I don't want you to do the song for me but I found your answer to my first post opened a few doors for me. Remember I am largely self taught so obvious things to professionsals are not so obvious to me.

Over the first two chords Eb/A, Db/A there are no other hints other than solitary F notes played in a catchy rhythm.

If you could list just two of the ideas for a progression like this, (from the many you hinted at) I would be extremely grateful.

I am really frustrated with my progress here. Again thanks so much and if you are too busy I understand but could you point me to a book, website, or person that may be able to help me. Thanks so much for your time. Cheers.

John
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Muris Varajic
post Nov 26 2008, 02:20 PM
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Well,progression by itself says what you can play over,
at least it shows one pattern.
Say it's key of Fm,which is not,
bass is playing A and that is major 3rd.
That leads us to logical conclusion,
play Fm scale with added major 3rd,
notes are F,G,Ab(Db chord has it),A(it's in bass),Bb,C,Db and Eb.
Now,be very careful when playing this A note,
it should be playing very short since it's just passing note,
it's note in bass but bass makes all the confusion there.
And to add even more spice,
try an alternate Fm pentatonic with this added A note,
F,Ab,A,Bb,C and Eb,
jam a bit and see the results.

As for books and sites,I never read any OR searched for,
all I did was listening and analizing,
so we're in the same boat more or less,self taught. smile.gif


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Gaf
post Nov 26 2008, 02:43 PM
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Brilliant! Thanks Muris.

I think I was focused too much on the trees not on the forest (Ab Major with added b2?). I'm starting to see a recurring theme of altered Fm pents in this song biggrin.gif .

Thanks so much. I'll practice and see if I can do the same thing with the next section (C section) write my analysis and hopefully you can tell me if I'm catching on and maybe give me another idea to work on.

Thanks alot!

John
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Muris Varajic
post Nov 26 2008, 02:54 PM
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Sure thing,keep analyzing it and we will talk more about it. smile.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Nov 29 2008, 04:54 PM
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Alright, Murisman! I tried recording something over the backing you first uploaded. It was just 100% improvised, so there are quite a lot of weird things. I'd like a few comments, if you wouldn't mind. smile.gif

Will have the video up on youtube in a few moments:



PS: Sorry about looking kinda ill and all... but the fact is... I am a bit ill! tongue.gif

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Nov 29 2008, 05:49 PM


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Caelumamittendum
post Nov 29 2008, 05:47 PM
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Should be up now. Not sure if it's working properly.


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Muris Varajic
post Nov 29 2008, 06:25 PM
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That was pretty nice take!

I see that it's fully improvised which I liked a lot,
some very tasty licks inside. smile.gif

Now,chord progression is what you should think about more.
You've been playing A Dorian most of the time which fits nice
EXCEPT over F7 chord,you play notes F# and E while F chord has notes F and Eb.
What I'm saying is,try to play arpeggios here and there,
play over chords notes.
Scale wise,it'd be some sort of A Aeolian flat 5(A,B,C,D,Eb,F,and G) over F7 chord.
Also there's E7 or E7/+9 chord,not sure atm.
Lay down on chord notes,add more out of scale notes
and resolve them to nearby scale note.
And try to sing along as you play.
sing something in advance and then try to repeat that with guitar,
you'll come up with some nice melodies and rhythmic patterns. smile.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Nov 29 2008, 06:37 PM
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Thanks, great advice, Muris! Will try and do some new takes at another time. Not feeling too well right now (figured out it was food poisoning)


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Muris Varajic
post Nov 29 2008, 07:58 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Nov 29 2008, 06:37 PM) *
Thanks, great advice, Muris! Will try and do some new takes at another time. Not feeling too well right now (figured out it was food poisoning)


Ahh,sorry to hear!

Wish you fast and safe recovery tho,
I hope it's nothing serious. smile.gif


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