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> Developing Speed, Learn how to play blazing fast!
Marcus Lavendell
post Aug 7 2008, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE (Déjà vu @ Aug 7 2008, 06:55 PM) *
I heard Shawn Lane say something like this a while ago... That certainly helped me a lot! This helps me reconsider that concept again! Thanks!

Great!
A quick google search led me to this video. Shawn talks about how he developed speed, and it's pretty much the same way we talk about here. Cool smile.gif


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Ian Bushell
post Aug 8 2008, 12:12 AM
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I agree bursting the speed in practice and before shows works great.

I also found what works well is Troy stetina's approach to it:

1.Start really slow
2.Move the metronome up 2 units at a time until you reach a comfortable speed
3.Push yourself two units faster, then slow back down one, over and over
4.When you reach top speed, slow down 20 BPM or so and repeat step 3

It still takes a while to reach the tempo but it's thourough!

I also read in a magazine that Vai does exercises that are really awkward
this makes the normal stuff easier to play!(VAI PLAYS NORMAL STUFF HAHAHA laugh.gif ) Check his 10 hour work out. Some awkward ones in there!


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Jeff
post Aug 8 2008, 01:41 AM
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QUOTE (leedbreak @ Aug 7 2008, 03:16 PM) *
I recently purchase Guitar speed trainer and am finding it to be the best tool I have ever had for my fast technique.


http://www.guitarspeed.com/


Thanks leedbreak. This looks very cool. I think I might get it! smile.gif
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Enucleation
post Aug 8 2008, 02:51 AM
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Ok this is going to sound SOOOO lame. But I remember being like 12 years old I had gotten my first piece o' crap First Act guitar. I would turn on music and just pretend to rock out to it (gah I was young and lame!) but really...I do believe it helped me with my speed...

I wouldn't suggest doing this though as Marcus's method seems to be the same and you might keep your dignity biggrin.gif


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kjutte
post Aug 8 2008, 06:13 AM
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Tony Mac and petrucci suggests you sit down and take one step at a time, whilst shawn lane suggest as marcus, play fast, and the misses will reduce eventually.

Speed ain't just about syncronization, it's immensely also about left/righthand stamina, so I guess I'll have to agree with shawn too.

QUOTE (Marcus Lavendell @ Aug 7 2008, 11:44 PM) *
Great!
A quick google search led me to this video. Shawn talks about how he developed speed, and it's pretty much the same way we talk about here. Cool smile.gif


Yeah, you saw it too...
Shawn wasn't much of an ordinary man though.
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John In Socal
post Aug 8 2008, 06:21 AM
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petrucci mentioned something like this in one of his videos, going past where you can actually play just to get the feel and then coming back down to a tempo you can play clean. You have to push it at some point to break through whatever speed barrier you are at.

Another thing I would mention that is not discussed much but really helped me. I have been playing around 2 years and was trying to develop more speed but I hit a barrier at around 150 BPM with 16th notes using any pattern. And I just couldn't get past that and keep tempo with the metronome. As it turns out I was playing with tension in my picking arm and not really realizing it. It wasn't massive tension, but just enough to hold me back. My guitar instructor didn't really notice or say anytbing about it, I guess it's hard to see tension unless it's extreme. Once I learned to really relax and play without tension all the sudden I could tremo pick or do simple patterns up to 180 BPM and tremlo at 200 BPM for 16th notes. You often hear people say "take it slow", "just practice" etc. But practicing the wrong way will not get you anywhere, I practiced with tension and simply got nowhere for quite a while. So definately try relaxing and work on tremelo picking as well as patterns to see what your max picking rate is. Obviously if you can only tremelo pick at 180 BPM you won't be able to do any patterns past that speed limit of your tremlo picking speed.
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kjutte
post Aug 8 2008, 06:23 AM
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QUOTE (John In Socal @ Aug 8 2008, 07:21 AM) *
petrucci mentioned something like this in one of his videos, going past where you can actually play just to get the feel and then coming back down to a tempo you can play clean. You have to push it at some point to break through whatever speed barrier you are at.

Another thing I would mention that is not discussed much but really helped me. I have been playing around 2 years and was trying to develop more speed but I hit a barrier at around 150 BPM with 16th notes using any pattern. And I just couldn't get past that and keep tempo with the metronome. As it turns out I was playing with tension in my picking arm and not really realizing it. It wasn't massive tension, but just enough to hold me back. My guitar instructor didn't really notice or say anytbing about it, I guess it's hard to see tension unless it's extreme. Once I learned to really relax and play without tension all the sudden I could tremo pick or do simple patterns up to 180 BPM and tremlo at 200 BPM for 16th notes. You often hear people say "take it slow", "just practice" etc. But practicing the wrong way will not get you anywhere, I practiced with tension and simply got nowhere for quite a while. So definately try relaxing and work on tremelo picking as well as patterns to see what your max picking rate is. Obviously if you can only tremelo pick at 180 BPM you won't be able to do any patterns past that speed limit of your tremlo picking speed.


Well you should pick with your wrist, not arm tongue.gif
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Daniel Robinson
post Aug 8 2008, 07:21 AM
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I think developing speed is all of the things mentioned in this thread.

Playing cleanly, playing beyond your limits sometimes. Also a stamina issue. For me i do speed drills kinda like Shawn Lane, i dont do huge groupings like he does and bounce all over the neck, but i will trem pick while doing 4 or 5 note licks at 200 BPM, i find if i do this everyday i notice an improvement in the articulation while playing slower.

I think the reason for this is because when you play really fast you have to really focus on accuracy of where your finger meets the string. Generally when you are blazing on the fretboard its very difficult to always fret a note in exactly the same spot when your finger meets the string.

When you slow it back down you arent thinking as hard about where your finger meets the string and where on the fret you hit the note.


Accuracy plays a huge role in speed, And i am referring to the actual fretting of the note. Not hand syncronization, or articulation. If you can train yourself to always..or as much as possible make sure your finger contacts the string at almost the same point, and hitting the fret in the same point, you will find speed increases because of accuracy.

One other thing i will say again from one of my other posts on this topic. Your gear plays a part too...if your guitar is difficult to play...or even semi-difficult to play you are going to find certain speed barriers are going to be very hard to cross. It would happen to even pro players.

I don't remember what the song was or where it was filmed but there is a vid of Joe Satriani playing one of his songs, but he is using someones "off the rack" low end guitar....about mid way thru he is missing notes and there is alot of sloppiness. After the song ended he looked at the guitar, and than said "Man, that was painful on this guitar!."

Its something to think about.

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John In Socal
post Aug 8 2008, 08:12 AM
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yes pick with your wrist but without tension in your arm, a tense arm makes picking fast difficult even if using the wrist. At least it was for me, some can pick fast with tension but it wasn't working for me. Some players (even some famous shredders) also can pick extremely fast and accuratley with the arm instead of the wrist so there is no one perfect way to pick that everybody must follow, but in general most seem to use the wrist and do it relaxed instead of having tension so that's a good place to start.

You might want to try low action on your guitar too if it's set for high action it may make learning to pick fast more difficult.
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fkalich
post Aug 8 2008, 08:16 AM
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So far, Kris has made sense in this thread.

Like my mother told me, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. Thanks Kris for making that possible!

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stickyfingers
post Aug 8 2008, 08:27 AM
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great topic!

i used hit my speed barrier at about 130 bpm the my playing became sloppy. one day i tried my exercise at 16th notes / 160bpm. first i hit a single note in 16th feel to get used to the tempo then i switched strings every full beat to practice the transition. that gave me the confidence that this exercise is doable at that speed and that i only had to synchronize my left had to my picking. half an hour later i could do that exercise at 160bpm - still a bit sloppy (hitting open strings during transition etc.), but ok so far. smile.gif


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Marcus Lavendell
post Aug 8 2008, 09:10 AM
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Thank you all for your posts!
It's very interesting and uplifting reading your stories and ideas. Keep 'em coming biggrin.gif

QUOTE (leedbreak @ Aug 7 2008, 10:16 PM) *
fast picking and slow picking are not the same movement. Just as walking and running are different.

I love that part! It's a great comparison.
Thank you leedbreak!


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RIP Dime
post Aug 8 2008, 09:17 AM
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Again, great post Marcus, I believe you are right here, going past your limit a little bit helps a ton. I've forgotten to do this recently, so thanks for reminding me, and explaining it. smile.gif I find without pushing myself a little I don't improve my speed very quickly.

For me it works like this:
Practicing slow and controlled improves my tone and control.
Pushing yourself, then bringing it down improves my speed and stamina.

I think these are just two ways of practicing, I like both, and they work well, so a practice session with both of those aspects really helps my speedy stuff.

I think everyone should give both ways of practicing a shot, they both work wonders.


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fkalich
post Aug 8 2008, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE (Marcus Lavendell @ Aug 7 2008, 04:44 PM) *
Great!
A quick google search led me to this video. Shawn talks about how he developed speed, and it's pretty much the same way we talk about here. Cool smile.gif




Paul Gilbert sees it more the way I do.

http://www.intimateaudio.com/psycho_licks.gilbert.html

I did the routine most of you are pushing. Been there, done that, not going back. If I walk under a grove of trees filled with starlings, and they poop on my head for a year and a half, well it should not have taken me a year and a half to learn to stay away from those trees. But better late than never.

My ideal of play is more the type of play that has been traditionally expected of a concert violist or pianist, not some shredder fast crapping away on the frets between cheeseburgers.


edit: etude 1 is coming along now towards 120. doing it the right way, incrementing up but maintaining quality. neoclassical advanced moving along to in same fashion. thank god you are here Marcus, you are indispensable for this site, but I don't agree on this at all. Playing super fast and out of good control just screws you up, even if you don't realize it. The neighbors will if you leave the windows open though.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Aug 8 2008, 11:48 AM
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Rolls
post Aug 8 2008, 11:49 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 8 2008, 07:42 AM) *
Paul Gilbert sees it more the way I do.

http://www.intimateaudio.com/psycho_licks.gilbert.html

I did the routine most of you are pushing. Been there, done that, not going back. If I walk under a grove of trees filled with starlings, and they poop on my head for a year and a half, well it should not have taken me a year and a half to learn to stay away from those trees. But better late than never.

My ideal of play is more the type of play that has been traditionally expected of a concert violist or pianist, not some shredder fast crapping away on the frets between cheeseburgers.



That's right GMC.....don't try to practice too fast even for a few minutes during your practice routine or you will become addicted to cheeseburgers.....LOL
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Caelumamittendum
post Aug 8 2008, 01:45 PM
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QUOTE (leedbreak @ Aug 7 2008, 10:16 PM) *
Long before I found this program I used the terms walking verses running. I have posted many times in the forum about it, saying that fast picking and slow picking are not the same movement. Just as walking and running are different.


Well, I'm not sure whether I will agree or not, because walking and running are two difference movements, where as picking is actually only one or could or should be:

When running your posture is completely different than with walking.

I know that picking slow and picking fast may not be the same movement, but they probably should be:

You want to play with your pick so that you only leave the string by 1 mm to each side of the string. That movement will be the same if you play it at 80 or 120 bpm, as long as you're precise about it.

I know some people will say that when they play 16th notes at 80 bpm they are more relaxed than when playing the same at 150 bpm, but shouldn't you be equally relaxed (in a perfect world)?


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leedbreak
post Aug 8 2008, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE (Marcus Lavendell @ Aug 8 2008, 03:10 AM) *
Thank you all for your posts!
It's very interesting and uplifting reading your stories and ideas. Keep 'em coming biggrin.gif


I love that part! It's a great comparison.
Thank you leedbreak!


So, I have to ask Marcus...

Does this post mean you agree?

Thanks

In reality, many of my post on GMC are about me trying to determine if I am going something wrong.

This post has been edited by leedbreak: Aug 8 2008, 03:39 PM


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coffeeman
post Aug 8 2008, 04:13 PM
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Some might think Paul gilbert is right , others might think Shawn Lane is right, I think Marcus is right.

"Nothing is absolute, everything is relative, it depends on the point of view of the observer"

The way I see it is that if it worked for Marcus , and I think he is an awesome guitar player, it can work for me too, the day this isn't working for me anymore I can change my strategy.



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Carlos Carrillo
post Aug 8 2008, 09:16 PM
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Brilliant post Marcus!!!
Sincerely, the speed develops with very much study, you must be very Patient.., it is important!
A very good way of practising is using the metronome.
You must be conciente that your hands and your fingers must rest, never forget to relax your fingers!!To look after yourself!!!

wink.gif God Bless You!!



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Déjà vu
post Aug 8 2008, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (Marcus Lavendell @ Aug 7 2008, 02:44 PM) *
Great!
A quick google search led me to this video. Shawn talks about how he developed speed, and it's pretty much the same way we talk about here. Cool smile.gif


Yup! That's the video! Speaking of ridiculous speed patterns laugh.gif . I heard Petrucci's "Constant Motion" solo. In the ending run is that tremolo picked, or strict alternate!?
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