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> Whats The Point Of An Fx Loop, FX Loop V.S. Effects In Front Of Amp
Marshmall0wz
post Aug 22 2008, 03:28 AM
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I was wondering whats the point of an fx loop instead of just putting pedals and stuff straight into the amp. Ive also heard the amp can be used as a boost.

ANDREW C.! Here's a question mainly for you or other knowledgeable moderators smile.gif I recently read something about reversing the fx send and return levels when using and fx loop...im confused on this issue heres the direct text from BUGERA AMPS. "The FX Send Level and FX Return Level controls should always be set oppositely. For example, to reach a 0 dB working level when the FX Send Level is set low , the FX Return Level needs to be set high accordingly. On the other hand, if you wish to boost the volume level, turn both controls to a higher setting."

feel free to dive in smile.gif

thx GMC


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UncleSkillet
post Aug 22 2008, 04:22 AM
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Some effects sound better "Pre" ( in front, straight into the amp) while others may sound better in the back "Post" (effects loop). It depends on the tone you are trying to achieve.

Most people would use "EQ, WAH, COMP, etc..." straight into the amp. Delay, Chorus, Reverb, etc... in the effects loop because it's warmer and sounds more natural.

When thinking about FX send and FX Return I look at it more like FX Dry and FX Wet. Be careful with the levels because you can create clipping which will kill your tone. Dry is your tone with pedals in front and your pre-amp while the Return is the Wet (or how much of the total effect you want mixed into your FX loop).


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Marshmall0wz
post Aug 22 2008, 04:44 AM
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QUOTE (UncleSkillet @ Aug 21 2008, 11:22 PM) *
Some effects sound better "Pre" ( in front, straight into the amp) while others may sound better in the back "Post" (effects loop). It depends on the tone you are trying to achieve.

Most people would use "EQ, WAH, COMP, etc..." straight into the amp. Delay, Chorus, Reverb, etc... in the effects loop because it's warmer and sounds more natural.

When thinking about FX send and FX Return I look at it more like FX Dry and FX Wet. Be careful with the levels because you can create clipping which will kill your tone. Dry is your tone with pedals in front and your pre-amp while the Return is the Wet (or how much of the total effect you want mixed into your FX loop).

okay. what about distortion pedals?


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UncleSkillet
post Aug 22 2008, 04:54 AM
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You would always put this in front for the most part. I would chain them together something like Distortion, EQ, Comp, etc.. all in front. Play around with the chain ( the order they are plugged in). Things will sound different. Again, it’s personal preference.


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Marshmall0wz
post Aug 22 2008, 04:57 AM
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QUOTE (UncleSkillet @ Aug 21 2008, 11:54 PM) *
You would always put this in front for the most part. I would chain them together something like Distortion, EQ, Comp, etc.. all in front. Play around with the chain ( the order they are plugged in). Things will sound different. Again, it’s personal preference.

thx


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Andrew Cockburn
post Aug 22 2008, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE (Marshmall0wz @ Aug 21 2008, 10:28 PM) *
I was wondering whats the point of an fx loop instead of just putting pedals and stuff straight into the amp. Ive also heard the amp can be used as a boost.

ANDREW C.! Here's a question mainly for you or other knowledgeable moderators smile.gif I recently read something about reversing the fx send and return levels when using and fx loop...im confused on this issue heres the direct text from BUGERA AMPS. "The FX Send Level and FX Return Level controls should always be set oppositely. For example, to reach a 0 dB working level when the FX Send Level is set low , the FX Return Level needs to be set high accordingly. On the other hand, if you wish to boost the volume level, turn both controls to a higher setting."

feel free to dive in smile.gif

thx GMC


Regarding the levels - it depends what you want to achieve.

What this is trying to say is that overall, to keep the gain correct, the FX in the loop should neither boost nor cut the level at that point. YOu use the pre to get a good level for whatever effects you are using, then adjust the post so that it cuts or boosts the effected level back to pretty much the same level it was before the fx loop, that way you won't alter the gain characteristics.

The final part says however, that you can use the FX loop as a boost and get more gain into your power amp stage if you turn them both up.


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Marshmall0wz
post Aug 22 2008, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Aug 22 2008, 09:50 AM) *
Regarding the levels - it depends what you want to achieve.

What this is trying to say is that overall, to keep the gain correct, the FX in the loop should neither boost nor cut the level at that point. YOu use the pre to get a good level for whatever effects you are using, then adjust the post so that it cuts or boosts the effected level back to pretty much the same level it was before the fx loop, that way you won't alter the gain characteristics.

The final part says however, that you can use the FX loop as a boost and get more gain into your power amp stage if you turn them both up.

thank you


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MickeM
post Aug 22 2008, 04:42 PM
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guitar ---> effects ---> preamp ---> fx send ---> effects ---> fx return ---> poweramp ---> speaker

Simply, putting effects before the preamp gives one result, putting them in the fx loop another. Which sounds better is up to you to decide, or your audience.

Trying to keep a picture of the signal in your head makes it easier to understand what you're getting in the end.

If you're using a delay effect before the preamp (with distortion) it will distort the delay.
Using the delay in the fx loop will add delay to the distorted signal.
(I prefer to use the delay in the loop)

When you're drawing this picture it's helpful to know
Effects alter the signal
Preamp scales up the signal from the amp input
Poweramp recieves the signal from the poweramp or the effects loop if it's used and scales it up to your desired output

An effects loop can be serial and that's what you see on the top line. A parallell loop will split the preamp signal in two parts and then mend it together before the power section. If you have a parallell loop and several amps you could connect the fx return into another poweramp (fx return)

The dB switch or input/outpur rate of the fx loop could, simply steer the signal strength of the signal you send through the loop. Mind that if you're running the signal (from fx send) through a device that's fed with instrument level signals you might want to make sure the signal isn't unbalanced going in (from the fx send) but raise it after the preamp and before it goes to the power section of the amp.
A dB switch scales it down over at the send side and then scales the signal up again over at the return side.

...I'm confusing myself.

Preamp signal -> fx send -> level cut 10dB -> effects -> boosted 10dB -> poweramp

And then what you said, if you can turn both the fxsend level and the fx return level up to 10 both of them you'd get a boosted signal allright.


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Marshmall0wz
post Aug 22 2008, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE (MickeM @ Aug 22 2008, 11:42 AM) *
guitar ---> effects ---> preamp ---> fx send ---> effects ---> fx return ---> poweramp ---> speaker

Simply, putting effects before the preamp gives one result, putting them in the fx loop another. Which sounds better is up to you to decide, or your audience.

Trying to keep a picture of the signal in your head makes it easier to understand what you're getting in the end.

If you're using a delay effect before the preamp (with distortion) it will distort the delay.
Using the delay in the fx loop will add delay to the distorted signal.
(I prefer to use the delay in the loop)

When you're drawing this picture it's helpful to know
Effects alter the signal
Preamp scales up the signal from the amp input
Poweramp recieves the signal from the poweramp or the effects loop if it's used and scales it up to your desired output

An effects loop can be serial and that's what you see on the top line. A parallell loop will split the preamp signal in two parts and then mend it together before the power section. If you have a parallell loop and several amps you could connect the fx return into another poweramp (fx return)

The dB switch or input/outpur rate of the fx loop could, simply steer the signal strength of the signal you send through the loop. Mind that if you're running the signal (from fx send) through a device that's fed with instrument level signals you might want to make sure the signal isn't unbalanced going in (from the fx send) but raise it after the preamp and before it goes to the power section of the amp.
A dB switch scales it down over at the send side and then scales the signal up again over at the return side.

...I'm confusing myself.

Preamp signal -> fx send -> level cut 10dB -> effects -> boosted 10dB -> poweramp

And then what you said, if you can turn both the fxsend level and the fx return level up to 10 both of them you'd get a boosted signal allright.

i get it now thx


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RIP Dime
post Aug 22 2008, 06:59 PM
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Holy $#!+, screw effects. laugh.gif The spring reverb on my amp, tuner, od, and wah are the only effects I will touch for now. All this is confusing me. wacko.gif


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Ian Bushell
post Aug 22 2008, 07:23 PM
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Using an fx loop can also avoid quite a tap dance routine when you're on stage tongue.gif
For example pedals that are set up in your loop can be turned on and off when your loop is off without it effecting the "live" sound. Generally i use a wah straight through my tri amp and send chorus through Fx loop and have a Noise suppressor routed through both. With Inersha i use the Genz Benz Diablo. What's cool about the Genz benz FX loop is that there are three different options, Inersha use alot of FX so i send a boss gt-6 through one of the fx loops, this allows me to turn distortion on and FX/clean off with one switch...much easier.
When distortion is on i can switch banks and fx on the gt6 and get things ready for the next change without it affecting what's coming out the amp. Thank goodness otherwise i'd have to do up to 4 switches at once. wacko.gif
So yeah in my opinion they're great:)


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PanicProne
post Aug 23 2008, 07:18 PM
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I got myself a Loopmaster true bypass 4-loop with tune out thingy for my pedalboard. So all I do now is plug the pedalboard cable straight into input. Aaaand done.

This post has been edited by PanicProne: Aug 23 2008, 07:18 PM
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Ian Bushell
post Aug 23 2008, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE (PanicProne @ Aug 23 2008, 08:18 PM) *
I got myself a Loopmaster true bypass 4-loop with tune out thingy for my pedalboard. So all I do now is plug the pedalboard cable straight into input. Aaaand done.


That's quite cool! Thanks for sharing.


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PanicProne
post Aug 24 2008, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE (Ian Bushell @ Aug 23 2008, 08:34 PM) *
That's quite cool! Thanks for sharing.

No problem man. If you have any queations about the stuff just send me a PM. The loopmaster gear is really quality stuff. It costs a bit but man is it worth it. Great updates during order and building process. Brilliant guy behind it all (Brian Price) who's main focus doesn't seem to be making money but rather making quality gear and pleasing customers. If you're ever considering building a pedalboard this is the place to start.

And yeah. I use a triple loop true bypass strip with tuner out. Not a four loop. tongue.gif
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