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> The War In Georgia And Russia, Thoughts, Opinions and commentary
fkalich
post Aug 23 2008, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (USAMAN @ Aug 23 2008, 01:57 PM) *
"i believe in everything Karl Marx wrote "

You should really read more....This was not a good man with good Ideas.


Smirk fell below the threshold of being worthy of a reply. Karl should have spent less time writing, and more effort keeping his family fed and the heat on in the winter. Besides, he never said anything original, that Hegel did not say earlier, and say much better.
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Lian Gerbino
post Aug 23 2008, 08:18 PM
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have anyone seen the movie: Zeitgeist???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie

in part 2 and part 3 there´s a lot of info about wars.
in that movie, I found some reasons about why countries has wars. sad.gif



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Fsgdjv
post Aug 23 2008, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (Lian Gerbino @ Aug 23 2008, 09:18 PM) *
have anyone seen the movie: Zeitgeist???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeitgeist,_the_Movie

in part 2 and part 3 there´s a lot of info about wars.
in that movie, I found some reasons about why countries has wars. sad.gif


Yeah well, that movie is complete bull.

(feel free to edit for language, whatever)

Duly edited for language as requested. The fact that you knew it was wrong and posted it anyway has not gone unnoticed - Andrew


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IDontWantMyUsern...
post Aug 23 2008, 11:15 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 23 2008, 08:57 PM) *
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=93522075


Looks like Europe and America are on the way back to being best buddies again. I always felt that they loved us a lot more when they feared the USSR. We only invade dictatorships, not democracies. And we never threaten democracies with nuclear attack as they did Poland. Makes for better friends. Even France will love us again I bet, the way this is going.


It isn't possible to invade a dictatorship like it is to invade a country, what I mean with that is that if you think the USA is going to solve this like they tried to solve the situation in Iraq, there will be lots of civilians killed just because USA wants to be "loved" and be the big hero like they were after WW2. But I promise you that it won't happen again if you keep on like this. I hate how USA abuses other countries' NATO-memberships to have them help to do the "Fight Against Terror". NATO should have fallen with the USSR.


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fkalich
post Aug 23 2008, 11:31 PM
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QUOTE (IDontWantMyUsername @ Aug 23 2008, 05:15 PM) *
It isn't possible to invade a dictatorship like it is to invade a country, what I mean with that is that if you think the USA is going to solve this like they tried to solve the situation in Iraq, there will be lots of civilians killed just because USA wants to be "loved" and be the big hero like they were after WW2. But I promise you that it won't happen again if you keep on like this. I hate how USA abuses other countries' NATO-memberships to have them help to do the "Fight Against Terror". NATO should have fallen with the USSR.


I would respond, but I will have a conversation with my bedroom wall instead. Or maybe one of my cats.
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IDontWantMyUsern...
post Aug 23 2008, 11:45 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 24 2008, 12:31 AM) *
I would respond, but I will have a conversation with my bedroom wall instead. Or maybe one of my cats.


I guess that means that you don't have any good arguments to come with? And that that again means that I won the conversation? And that that again means that you think I am right? Well, I'm happy that you agree with me wink.gif


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sigma7
post Aug 24 2008, 12:00 AM
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QUOTE (IDontWantMyUsername @ Aug 23 2008, 06:45 PM) *
I guess that means that you don't have any good arguments to come with? And that that again means that I won the conversation? And that that again means that you think I am right? Well, I'm happy that you agree with me wink.gif


I agree with u buddy, but in all fairness, Sadam Hussien was know to be a bad person. I think U.S. could have done a way better job in the situation, but I do support the troops 100%, just not George Bush or John McCaine haha


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IDontWantMyUsern...
post Aug 24 2008, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Aug 24 2008, 01:00 AM) *
I agree with u buddy, but in all fairness, Sadam Hussien was know to be a bad person. I think U.S. could have done a way better job in the situation, but I do support the troops 100%, just not George Bush or John McCaine haha


Well, it isn't the troops that decide what they have to do in the war so I understand what you mean smile.gif


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fkalich
post Aug 24 2008, 12:09 AM
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When both the US and France agree on something, it is probably the correct perception. That is the acid test.
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Kevin98497
post Aug 24 2008, 12:12 AM
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i think what would be best is if we found out that there is going to be an alien invasion, then the whole of earth will have to stick together and stop having STUPID WARS!! what the!...
but besides from that, i really hope that nothing serious breaks out coz we might like all die, and that is, well, not ideal...if you get what i mean

This post has been edited by kevin-riff-after-riff: Aug 24 2008, 12:13 AM
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IDontWantMyUsern...
post Aug 24 2008, 12:19 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 24 2008, 01:09 AM) *
When both the US and France agree on something, it is probably the correct perception. That is the acid test.


I think it's a little harder to find solutions for the world's problems than that...


QUOTE (kevin-riff-after-riff @ Aug 24 2008, 01:12 AM) *
i think what would be best is if we found out that there is going to be an alien invasion, then the whole of earth will have to stick together and stop having STUPID WARS!! what the!...
but besides from that, i really hope that nothing serious breaks out coz we might like all die, and that is, well, not ideal...if you get what i mean


I agree about not having more of those stupid wars, but I wonder if you have seen Independence Day a little too many times tongue.gif


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Noangels
post Aug 24 2008, 12:39 AM
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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Aug 24 2008, 12:00 AM) *
I agree with u buddy, but in all fairness, Sadam Hussien was know to be a bad person. I think U.S. could have done a way better job in the situation, but I do support the troops 100%, just not George Bush or John McCaine haha



we are all screwed by our political leaders realy,the choice of electing them into power is just an illusion to fool us into
thinking we have a say in how our countries are run.There all the same,and the end game will always play the same no matter who we have there.The super rich hold the purse strings and shape the world.we are all just cattle to be taxed from our 1st wage packet untill our death

as for this Georgian conflict,the 1st reports on the BBC was about them shelling that city in South Ossetia killing many innocents.Then russian came through and rightly punished any Georgian war machine hardware that was in the area.Then driving them out,far away from Georgian missile and shell range incase they deicided to shell that area again
Hopefully Russia will resist using the full force of its war machine there,and withdraw back into South Ossetia and stay there as(cough)peace keepers!

Anyway,as a Brit here I would like to say to my other EU guitarists here that most of us here were against the Iraq war,dont want a war with Iran and certainly not Russia.Its the same over the pond in America.GWB the great draft dodger has done great shame on his country and the average American is the same as everyone else on the planet.America has a lot to offer the world,not just bullets and bombs:) Its just a shame our so called leaders are vile petty men who value money more than life itself!


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fkalich
post Aug 24 2008, 02:58 AM
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QUOTE (Noangels @ Aug 23 2008, 06:39 PM) *
great shame on his country and the average American is the same as everyone else on the planet.America has a lot to offer the world,not just bullets and bombs:) Its just a shame our so called leaders are vile petty men who value money more than life itself!


Often the average citizen is pretty clueless, and the leaders have to bring them along slowly.

For example in 1940 Roosevelt campaigned on the promise of staying out of the war, and he darn well knew that he needed to get into that as soon as possible. But the public did not understand the danger. Or go back to the American Civil war. If up to the public in the first half of 1864, three years into the war, they would have just gotten out of the war and left the slaves in chains. It took Sherman's capture of Atlanta to turn that tide. Sometimes the leaders really do know better than the general public. Not always, but some times they do.

And it is not until years after that history really judges it. The judgment made now by mass entertainment new media is not necessarily the one that history will have. I don't think GW will be looked on nearly as negatively as he is today. In fact, I think he will be looked on moderately favorably, and he knows it. I mean, he will have been responsible for establishing the first democracy in the Arab world, and nothing particularly bad of note will be remembered. No real scandals. No real disasters that could have been avoided. So why will they judge him so harshly, you think they will base it on old BBC newspapers? But time will tell if I am right on this.

Don't get me wrong, I probably will vote for Obama. But I never fell for this total trashing of GW.
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kahall
post Aug 24 2008, 03:22 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 23 2008, 05:31 PM) *
I would respond, but I will have a conversation with my bedroom wall instead. Or maybe one of my cats.


I hear ya!

Mods, are we allowed to have a heated political discussion here or not? Previously you shut them down. Why not this one?



We have at least one poster here insulting the current President of the USA, a great one at that by the way and yet the thread remains open.



I have plenty of responses but I do not want to waste my time if you are going to shut this down. I enjoy all you guys gals here but there are some asinine and just plain wrong statements being typed in this thread.

I suggest you open a politics /current events only section in the forum with a stern warning to all who enter that they may be offended or continue to shut these threads down. I would go for the latter if it were up to me, since there are plenty of other places on the net to get info and comment on what is up in the world of politics, war and other current events.








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Daniel Robinson
post Aug 24 2008, 04:11 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 23 2008, 09:58 PM) *
Often the average citizen is pretty clueless, and the leaders have to bring them along slowly.

For example in 1940 Roosevelt campaigned on the promise of staying out of the war, and he darn well knew that he needed to get into that as soon as possible. But the public did not understand the danger. Or go back to the American Civil war. If up to the public in the first half of 1864, three years into the war, they would have just gotten out of the war and left the slaves in chains. It took Sherman's capture of Atlanta to turn that tide. Sometimes the leaders really do know better than the general public. Not always, but some times they do.

And it is not until years after that history really judges it. The judgment made now by mass entertainment new media is not necessarily the one that history will have. I don't think GW will be looked on nearly as negatively as he is today. In fact, I think he will be looked on moderately favorably, and he knows it. I mean, he will have been responsible for establishing the first democracy in the Arab world, and nothing particularly bad of note will be remembered. No real scandals. No real disasters that could have been avoided. So why will they judge him so harshly, you think they will base it on old BBC newspapers? But time will tell if I am right on this.

Don't get me wrong, I probably will vote for Obama. But I never fell for this total trashing of GW.



I very much agree with this, looking back history wise if you look at the facts verses what is taught or thought of you take someone like Abraham Lincoln, during his presidency his approval rating was abysmal just like GW. Just because people "Don't get it" doesnt mean its wrong.

I agree the tactics that got us invovled in Iraq were questionable, i think the biggest problem though falls on the U.N. it has no strength to dictate anything, they are all paper pushers who threaten but never do anything. The intitial problem with Saddam was the fact he wouldnt give weapon inspectors free movement to do what they needed. The U.N. kept threating military action over and over and over. Eventually Saddam realized it was all bark and no bite. When you make policy on a global scale you should back it up with something concrete. The U.N. failed miserably in this, so we took the action they weren't willing to.

As i said not exactly honorable, but not incorrect either.

Daniel


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fkalich
post Aug 24 2008, 05:58 AM
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QUOTE (Daniel Robinson @ Aug 23 2008, 10:11 PM) *
I very much agree with this, looking back history wise if you look at the facts verses what is taught or thought of you take someone like Abraham Lincoln, during his presidency his approval rating was abysmal just like GW. Just because people "Don't get it" doesnt mean its wrong.

I agree the tactics that got us invovled in Iraq were questionable, i think the biggest problem though falls on the U.N. it has no strength to dictate anything, they are all paper pushers who threaten but never do anything. The intitial problem with Saddam was the fact he wouldnt give weapon inspectors free movement to do what they needed. The U.N. kept threating military action over and over and over. Eventually Saddam realized it was all bark and no bite. When you make policy on a global scale you should back it up with something concrete. The U.N. failed miserably in this, so we took the action they weren't willing to.

As i said not exactly honorable, but not incorrect either.

Daniel


same thing is going to happen now, more is coming, success here will just raise his popularity, NATO will be divided on standing up to him with serious sanctions, and so he will win, and what the heck, worked once, he will do it again. People never learn. The US will have to go along and let him get away with it, and have to wait with the "I told you so's" when he does it to the Ukraine or Poland or Turkey or whoever.

Besides the real fear is that he is pretty much a dictator now, and I think has some significant screws loose.

I mean, whatever GW is, he is definitely in great shape physically, runs and lifts weights. In better shape than Putin I believe. But he keeps it to himself. He never subjected us to something like this.....

Attached ImageAttached Image

That guy has got to be a few chords sort of a full load, to pose like that in his position, and at his age. Besides, he needs a man bra.

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sigma7
post Aug 24 2008, 06:03 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 24 2008, 12:58 AM) *
Attached ImageAttached Image

That guy has got to be a few chords sort of a full load, to pose like that in his position, and at his age. Besides, he needs a man bra.

doesnt look like hes out of shape 4 his age, Russians do it old school haha


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fkalich
post Aug 24 2008, 06:14 AM
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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Aug 24 2008, 12:03 AM) *
doesnt look like hes out of shape 4 his age, Russians do it old school haha


I think you should entertain the possibility the guy is half nuts, and not excuse this as some Russian thing. He also has access codes to many nukes. Well maybe somebody will poison him, like they did with Brezhnev.

I still say he needs a man bra.
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sigma7
post Aug 24 2008, 06:17 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Aug 24 2008, 01:14 AM) *
I think you should entertain the possibility the guy is half nuts, and not excuse this as some Russian thing. He also has access codes to many nukes. Well maybe somebody will poison him, like they did with Brezhnev.

I still say he needs a man bra.


he has bigger breasts than my gf haha oh boy but seriously wut r the point of nukes, only gonna destroy the earth.


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post Aug 24 2008, 08:28 AM
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QUOTE
I don't think GW will be looked on nearly as negatively as he is today. In fact, I think he will be looked on moderately favorably, and he knows it. I mean, he will have been responsible for establishing the first democracy in the Arab world, and nothing particularly bad of note will be remembered. No real scandals. No real disasters that could have been avoided. So why will they judge him so harshly, you think they will base it on old BBC newspapers? But time will tell if I am right on this.


I'm sorry but not only is GW one of the worst presidents of the US, but is one of the worst humans in our lifetime.

He has the blood of thousands of people on his hands, he made the world despise the US, he lies, he cheats the system, he used the constitution as toilet paper. The only way people will think of him more favorably is if McCain gets elected and invades Iran.

-Elected in a disputed election
-Patriot act shreds the constitution
-Iraq, brought the country to war on forged intelligence and flat out lies (should of impeached him right here)
-No bid contracts in Iraq, Halliburton, Blackwater mercenaries that are above the law
-The Military Commissions Act
-Hurricane Katrina
-Warrant less wire tapping by NSA
-Offers retroactive immunity to telecoms that spy on their customers
-Turned a surplus into a MASSIVE deficit
- Attempted to stop the 9/11 commission
-The whole preventive war doctrine (invade a country before it has a chance to do something wrong)
-His whole war on science and logic (evolution, stem cells, global warming)
-Staffing Women's Health position with religious conservatives, attacks abortion and types of birth control
-The massacre at Haditha and its conver up
-Collapse of the housing market
-Karl Rove, nuff said
-"Lost" white house emails
- Telling Fox News what to report

I could keep going, but I won't
I'm ashamed to call this man human, let alone the leader of the world's most powerful country

anyway, as for the Georgia thing
Almost everybody blames Russia as being a thug and going back to the Soviet style of control but we have to remember that Georgia isn't just some innocent bystander in all of this. The Georgian has been brutal to South Ossetia (spelling) and was the one that started bombing. Many refugees publicly thank the Russia army for saving them from the Georgians.

That side of the story is almost not told in the US. The blame goes straight to Russia because the West has been supporting Georgia.

War is bad
call me naive, but I'm confident that one day people will have enough of killing. We will stop electing power hungry politicians, abandon silly ideals like nationalism and patriotism and just work on living together as human beings
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