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> The War In Georgia And Russia, Thoughts, Opinions and commentary
Vinod Saranga
post Aug 24 2008, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Aug 23 2008, 03:31 PM) *
Politics is too complex for us to discuss it IMO, at least for me, because all of that are dirty games, and I don't have the necessary information to discuss it anyway. Often I'm quite glad that I don't know it - it would just make me sad. sad.gif


Same story here biggrin.gif


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mattacuk
post Aug 24 2008, 10:12 AM
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Rooks
post Aug 24 2008, 10:25 AM
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I think that the rest of the world should just mind its own business when there is a conflict, it might seem wrong to just stand and watch. But it only creates more conflicts to interfere.

Everyone should just move with red cross and help innocent people.

And if USA really didn't like Saddam Hussein back then .. They could shoot him with a missile from 100 miles away. There was no reason to get young men killed besides money money money. (And yet consider the costs of the war, don't think it exactly paid off) If USA really don't like a country or a coalition they should spend the money building a wall around them letting them sort it out ^^.

In a near future, Tanks, planes and helicopters will be completely unmanned. And then we can see the stupidity of war. two men sending robots to destroy each other. Jeez numbskulls.

And for the war in georgia. What can everyone else do? Only make things worse. Only thing we can do is help innocent victims of war with food and shelter. It might seem a bit "hippie like" but my only answer to stop war. Is to stop shooting.


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MickeM
post Aug 24 2008, 10:41 AM
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QUOTE (kahall @ Aug 24 2008, 04:22 AM) *
Mods, are we allowed to have a heated political discussion here or not? Previously you shut them down. Why not this one?

Whether it's shut down or not is entirely up to you. Keep it clean and respect eachother! When things start to go overboard it will be closed for sure. Or if it becomes offending to a lot of people of if we find that it's leading nowhere it's entirely up to us moderators to close it.

This post has been edited by MickeM: Aug 24 2008, 11:32 AM


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Muris Varajic
post Aug 24 2008, 11:05 AM
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This kind of topic certainly ain't great for chilling out. huh.gif


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IDontWantMyUsern...
post Aug 24 2008, 12:52 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Aug 24 2008, 12:05 PM) *
This kind of topic certainly ain't great for chilling out. huh.gif


Haha laugh.gif Many people find it interesting though smile.gif


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Noangels
post Aug 24 2008, 02:28 PM
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Thank you Iron King for typing that,saves me having to do it:)
I say the whole world chips in and Buys The Decider some pretzels,Hopefully he will eat them in prison

On a side note are there any big russian bands?Cant say I have heard of any to be honest


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besip
post Aug 24 2008, 02:32 PM
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The war is always complicate.....i'm just don't like to say the all resposibility for the war is on Russian side..
we got so many war's on our planet and nobody care who is right...now almost everybody see guilt on russian side but i'm thing thats more complicate

i'm not on any side into this conflict!!!!!!!!
but some country{and specialy politics} be have to thing before they start judging


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Lian Gerbino
post Aug 24 2008, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (Iron King @ Aug 24 2008, 04:28 AM) *
War is bad
call me naive, but I'm confident that one day people will have enough of killing. We will stop electing power hungry politicians, abandon silly ideals like nationalism and patriotism and just work on living together as human beings



wink.gif I agree with that, I have the same feeling about it. but, how many peace people has to die till then? Lennon, Ghandi, Kennedy, M.L.King just to name a few. sad.gif


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Nemanja Filipovi...
post Aug 24 2008, 03:21 PM
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Wow,topic goes big.smile.gif
Lian has mentioned Zietgeist,I totally agree with every thing in this movie and with every thing mister George Carlin sad at the beginning in the same one.
I think that there is a lot of touchy issues here,but I do also think that Russia is saying,ok America you bully the whole world but not us.It is there wright to say any thing they want,just like America say and do every thing they want.Question is,who give you the wright to deside other peoples faith and to invade every country you want(based on bad inteligence).
Point is we cant change a thing a bout it.:)IMO


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sigma7
post Aug 24 2008, 08:51 PM
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QUOTE (Nemanja Filipovic @ Aug 24 2008, 10:21 AM) *
Wow,topic goes big.smile.gif
Lian has mentioned Zietgeist,I totally agree with every thing in this movie and with every thing mister George Carlin sad at the beginning in the same one.
I think that there is a lot of touchy issues here,but I do also think that Russia is saying,ok America you bully the whole world but not us.It is there wright to say any thing they want,just like America say and do every thing they want.Question is,who give you the wright to deside other peoples faith and to invade every country you want(based on bad inteligence).
Point is we cant change a thing a bout it.:)IMO


i agree, y would u want to, just let people be free


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sigma7
post Aug 24 2008, 08:52 PM
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thanx 4 the list man, GwB is the worst American president ever

This post has been edited by sigma7: Aug 24 2008, 08:53 PM


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kahall
post Aug 25 2008, 01:51 AM
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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Aug 24 2008, 02:52 PM) *
thanx 4 the list man, GwB is the worst American president ever


Yeah, thanks. It makes it so easy for me.
Lets get started.

The only way people will think of him more favorably is if McCain gets elected and invades Iran.
Anyone who has paid attention to what Iranian President Ahmadinejad is saying knows this has to be considered. He's calling for the destruction of America and all democracy. That seems kind of important to me.



-Elected in a disputed election:
Al Gore tried his damnedest to steal the election in 2000 and failed, and some still claim that Bush not only tried to, but did. Gore failed because the Supreme Court finally stepped in to put a halt to Al Gore's shenanigans, and some lament a supposed "activism" on the part of the Supreme Court that they've spent the last thirty years applauding. The SC is only correct when it agrees with your side is not how it works here.

-Patriot act shreds the constitution:
It does no such thing and you can repeat it from now until John McCain is in office and it is still not going to be true. If we had the patriot act in place before 9/11 we may have just anticipated it. No one is interested in investigating someone who's doing something that's appropriate. They don't have time for that and is just plain nonsense. We know for sure there are cells in the United States that are ready to erupt. We know that Hezbollah is here; we know there are cells from different terrorist organizations that are here and operational and that there are others waiting too. This is serious business. Just because we don't have a continuous attack on our shores, does not mean we are now living in lolly pop candy land.

-Iraq, brought the country to war on forged intelligence and flat out lies (should of impeached him right here):
Everyone including those in Congress who voted to go to war had the same intelligence. If you are going to fire (impeach) GW then the rest must go to, but I'm sure you're fine with that since you did not vote for any of them and they do not represent you. Besides all that, the Iraqis had
only been shooting at our pilots (who were there at the request of the UN, a useless organization) for ten f'n years before the US finally brought it to a halt and literally dug him out of his hole. And there is the minor detail of 50 million oppressed Muslims who are now free.


-No bid contracts in Iraq, Halliburton, Blackwater mercenaries that are above the law.
No proof of any of this. If there was someone would already be impeached, in jail or at least fined heavily and you know it. Next->


-The Military Commissions Act.
It provides legal protections that ensure our military and intelligence personnel will not have to fear lawsuits filed by terrorists simply for doing their jobs . I say AWESOMe and you would to if you were in the military, had family in the military or if you weren't clueless.


-Hurricane Katrina: Yeah it is weird that there has never been a hurricane in Crawford Texas. Good grief, he caused the hurricane? Really? If you believe that, I have pics for sale of the boat used by Karl Rove and Scooter Libby when they blew up the levees in New Orleans. If you are referring to how fast we reacted you are misinformed. Our troops and volunteers were there within 24 hours, but no one expected a disaster this massive would occur. If they did then the LA government officials would have done a mandatory evacuation instead of just suggesting it. I was a mess, but how you can blame one man, GW is just silly. People do still have to look out for themselves and not rely on the government to get themselves out of every single situation. We rescued thousands and mistakenly passed out money like it was bubblegum but other than that we all did the best we could.


-Warrant less wire tapping by NSA:
The War on Terror is real. See my answer to your ridiculous patriot act shreds the constitution hot air.


-Offers retroactive immunity to telecoms that spy on their customers.
The War on Terror is real. And this was not decided by GW, but in a court of law. We have those here.


-Turned a surplus into a MASSIVE deficit:
It cost a lot of money to kill those who try to kill us. And it is not massive. We can pay that off in a heart beat without raising taxes and no one here really cares about this issue. It is only brought up to add to baseless BS lists like yours of all the evil GWB has done.


- Attempted to stop the 9/11 commission:
I have no idea if this is true or not, but there was no need for a commission. 19 radical Islamic MF'n terrorist flew 3 planes into buildings and another was forced into the ground by passengers in the U. S. killing thousands of innocent people from all over the world. (Remember that?) It's pretty obvious the commission was a waste of time and money. Or are you one of those idiot douchbags that think it was an inside job?


-The whole preventive war doctrine (invade a country before it has a chance to do something wrong)
Yep, that's the way we roll in the USA. Thank God for the US military and our leaders. Over half of the world's people would be under some dictator's thumb if it weren't for our policies.


-His whole war on science and logic (evolution, stem cells, global warming) war on science?
The schools here still teach evolution as fact and they will as long as I and others like me have anything to say about it. Global warming is a hoax and many are getting filthy rich claiming that it is real. Stem cell research is being done like crazy by private enterprise here (again in the US) and having success. There is no war on science here. Where in the hell did you get that?


-Staffing Women's Health position with religious conservatives, attacks abortion and types of birth control: That is his right to do with any appointed position just as it was Bill Clinton's, George Bush Sr, Ronald Reagan and all of the other 40 ish presidents before him. Geez, do you even know how the Presidency works here? Oh and search for abortions in any US yellow pages and you will see that there are plenty of places to get one if you need it, pages and pages, which is fine with most of us here in the US. Just don't make us help pay for it. We weren't invited when you got in the mess and we do want to be invited now.


-The massacre at Haditha and its conver up:
Everyone one of the individuals involved has been acquitted by jury. And if you want to talk about impeachment of anyone it should be of those who spoke as if our soldiers murdered innocents before there was even one shred of evidence, as in Barrack's VP choice Joe Biden as well as Senator Murtha. War is not pretty but these 2 men are the disgrace not George Bush or our brave men and woman fighting for my freedoms.


-Collapse of the housing market:
This is capitalism at its best, besides I always like it when the price of things go down. The only time anyone ever complains about falling prices is when it is the value of their home. It's a great time to buy, not so great to sell but it will come back around like it always does. FYI, I own my home and this does affect me.


-Karl Rove, nuff said:
He is a magnificent bastard. If I was running for any elected office I would make sure he was on my side. I love him. You and your like can continue to complain about him and that is just fine, he is now out active politics and has nothing to do with any policy making procedures. He's on Fox News, the number one cable news network almost everyday. I suggest you tune in if you miss him.


-"Lost" white house emails.
They said they lost them during an upgrade if my memory is correct. Lord knows that could never happen. Big deal! IT is my profession and while this should not have happened, the fact that they say it did does not make it a lie.


- Telling Fox News what to report:
How old are you anyway? You and others say this only because they are fair and balanced. Even Hillary Clinton said so.



As an added bonus: In the meantime there have been no - repeat, no, zip, zero, nada - successful attacks on US soil since 9/11, and we both know that it is not because of the fine job Clinton did in scaring them off. We free 50 million — (that's 50 with six zeros behind it) oppressed Muslims and the only thing some people notice is a handful of prisoners with panties on their heads and a load of illegal combatants in Gitmo getting fat and sloppy from their 'inhuman' bondage. And like it or not there are millions and millions and millions of people who think and agree with me just as much as those who are as clueless as you are. George Bush has been the greatest president since Ronald Reagan. Get over it already and in case you missed it, he can't run again.



And one more thing, no one I know, and I know a lot of people of a lot of different political persuasion give a rat's ass what people in other countries think of the US, our citizens or our elected officials. This is another non issue made up by the likes of MSNBC and other networks that are in the TANK for BO.



Yes I love my country and I am very patriotic in case you did not gather that from my post. You all should be as well.



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USAMAN
post Aug 25 2008, 03:57 AM
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QUOTE (Nemanja Filipovic @ Aug 24 2008, 03:21 PM) *
Wow,topic goes big.smile.gif
Lian has mentioned Zietgeist,I totally agree with every thing in this movie and with every thing mister George Carlin sad at the beginning in the same one.
I think that there is a lot of touchy issues here,but I do also think that Russia is saying,ok America you bully the whole world but not us.It is there wright to say any thing they want,just like America say and do every thing they want.Question is,who give you the wright to deside other peoples faith and to invade every country you want(based on bad inteligence).
Point is we cant change a thing a bout it.:)IMO


Thats not why the US invaded. Read through the long list of UN resolutions that Sadam Ignored. The UN again did nothing....US had to because no one else ever steps up.

QUOTE (kahall @ Aug 25 2008, 01:51 AM) *
Yeah, thanks. It makes it so easy for me.
Lets get started.

The only way people will think of him more favorably is if McCain gets elected and invades Iran.
Anyone who has paid attention to what Iranian President Ahmadinejad is saying knows this has to be considered. He's calling for the destruction of America and all democracy. That seems kind of important to me.



-Elected in a disputed election:
Al Gore tried his damnedest to steal the election in 2000 and failed, and some still claim that Bush not only tried to, but did. Gore failed because the Supreme Court finally stepped in to put a halt to Al Gore's shenanigans, and some lament a supposed "activism" on the part of the Supreme Court that they've spent the last thirty years applauding. The SC is only correct when it agrees with your side is not how it works here.

-Patriot act shreds the constitution:
It does no such thing and you can repeat it from now until John McCain is in office and it is still not going to be true. If we had the patriot act in place before 9/11 we may have just anticipated it. No one is interested in investigating someone who's doing something that's appropriate. They don't have time for that and is just plain nonsense. We know for sure there are cells in the United States that are ready to erupt. We know that Hezbollah is here; we know there are cells from different terrorist organizations that are here and operational and that there are others waiting too. This is serious business. Just because we don't have a continuous attack on our shores, does not mean we are now living in lolly pop candy land.

-Iraq, brought the country to war on forged intelligence and flat out lies (should of impeached him right here):
Everyone including those in Congress who voted to go to war had the same intelligence. If you are going to fire (impeach) GW then the rest must go to, but I'm sure you're fine with that since you did not vote for any of them and they do not represent you. Besides all that, the Iraqis had
only been shooting at our pilots (who were there at the request of the UN, a useless organization) for ten f'n years before the US finally brought it to a halt and literally dug him out of his hole. And there is the minor detail of 50 million oppressed Muslims who are now free.


-No bid contracts in Iraq, Halliburton, Blackwater mercenaries that are above the law.
No proof of any of this. If there was someone would already be impeached, in jail or at least fined heavily and you know it. Next->


-The Military Commissions Act.
It provides legal protections that ensure our military and intelligence personnel will not have to fear lawsuits filed by terrorists simply for doing their jobs . I say AWESOMe and you would to if you were in the military, had family in the military or if you weren't clueless.


-Hurricane Katrina: Yeah it is weird that there has never been a hurricane in Crawford Texas. Good grief, he caused the hurricane? Really? If you believe that, I have pics for sale of the boat used by Karl Rove and Scooter Libby when they blew up the levees in New Orleans. If you are referring to how fast we reacted you are misinformed. Our troops and volunteers were there within 24 hours, but no one expected a disaster this massive would occur. If they did then the LA government officials would have done a mandatory evacuation instead of just suggesting it. I was a mess, but how you can blame one man, GW is just silly. People do still have to look out for themselves and not rely on the government to get themselves out of every single situation. We rescued thousands and mistakenly passed out money like it was bubblegum but other than that we all did the best we could.


-Warrant less wire tapping by NSA:
The War on Terror is real. See my answer to your ridiculous patriot act shreds the constitution hot air.


-Offers retroactive immunity to telecoms that spy on their customers.
The War on Terror is real. And this was not decided by GW, but in a court of law. We have those here.


-Turned a surplus into a MASSIVE deficit:
It cost a lot of money to kill those who try to kill us. And it is not massive. We can pay that off in a heart beat without raising taxes and no one here really cares about this issue. It is only brought up to add to baseless BS lists like yours of all the evil GWB has done.


- Attempted to stop the 9/11 commission:
I have no idea if this is true or not, but there was no need for a commission. 19 radical Islamic MF'n terrorist flew 3 planes into buildings and another was forced into the ground by passengers in the U. S. killing thousands of innocent people from all over the world. (Remember that?) It's pretty obvious the commission was a waste of time and money. Or are you one of those idiot douchbags that think it was an inside job?


-The whole preventive war doctrine (invade a country before it has a chance to do something wrong)
Yep, that's the way we roll in the USA. Thank God for the US military and our leaders. Over half of the world's people would be under some dictator's thumb if it weren't for our policies.


-His whole war on science and logic (evolution, stem cells, global warming) war on science?
The schools here still teach evolution as fact and they will as long as I and others like me have anything to say about it. Global warming is a hoax and many are getting filthy rich claiming that it is real. Stem cell research is being done like crazy by private enterprise here (again in the US) and having success. There is no war on science here. Where in the hell did you get that?


-Staffing Women's Health position with religious conservatives, attacks abortion and types of birth control: That is his right to do with any appointed position just as it was Bill Clinton's, George Bush Sr, Ronald Reagan and all of the other 40 ish presidents before him. Geez, do you even know how the Presidency works here? Oh and search for abortions in any US yellow pages and you will see that there are plenty of places to get one if you need it, pages and pages, which is fine with most of us here in the US. Just don't make us help pay for it. We weren't invited when you got in the mess and we do want to be invited now.


-The massacre at Haditha and its conver up:
Everyone one of the individuals involved has been acquitted by jury. And if you want to talk about impeachment of anyone it should be of those who spoke as if our soldiers murdered innocents before there was even one shred of evidence, as in Barrack's VP choice Joe Biden as well as Senator Murtha. War is not pretty but these 2 men are the disgrace not George Bush or our brave men and woman fighting for my freedoms.


-Collapse of the housing market:
This is capitalism at its best, besides I always like it when the price of things go down. The only time anyone ever complains about falling prices is when it is the value of their home. It's a great time to buy, not so great to sell but it will come back around like it always does. FYI, I own my home and this does affect me.


-Karl Rove, nuff said:
He is a magnificent bastard. If I was running for any elected office I would make sure he was on my side. I love him. You and your like can continue to complain about him and that is just fine, he is now out active politics and has nothing to do with any policy making procedures. He's on Fox News, the number one cable news network almost everyday. I suggest you tune in if you miss him.


-"Lost" white house emails.
They said they lost them during an upgrade if my memory is correct. Lord knows that could never happen. Big deal! IT is my profession and while this should not have happened, the fact that they say it did does not make it a lie.


- Telling Fox News what to report:
How old are you anyway? You and others say this only because they are fair and balanced. Even Hillary Clinton said so.



As an added bonus: In the meantime there have been no - repeat, no, zip, zero, nada - successful attacks on US soil since 9/11, and we both know that it is not because of the fine job Clinton did in scaring them off. We free 50 million — (that's 50 with six zeros behind it) oppressed Muslims and the only thing some people notice is a handful of prisoners with panties on their heads and a load of illegal combatants in Gitmo getting fat and sloppy from their 'inhuman' bondage. And like it or not there are millions and millions and millions of people who think and agree with me just as much as those who are as clueless as you are. George Bush has been the greatest president since Ronald Reagan. Get over it already and in case you missed it, he can't run again.



And one more thing, no one I know, and I know a lot of people of a lot of different political persuasion give a rat's ass what people in other countries think of the US, our citizens or our elected officials. This is another non issue made up by the likes of MSNBC and other networks that are in the TANK for BO.



Yes I love my country and I am very patriotic in case you did not gather that from my post. You all should be as well.

[size="6"][/size]AMEN BROTHER!

Hurricane Katrina: Yeah it is weird that there has never been a hurricane in Crawford Texas. Good grief, he caused the hurricane? Really? If you believe that, I have pics for sale of the boat used by Karl Rove and Scooter Libby when they blew up the levees in New Orleans. If you are referring to how fast we reacted you are misinformed. Our troops and volunteers were there within 24 hours, but no one expected a disaster this massive would occur. If they did then the LA government officials would have done a mandatory evacuation instead of just suggesting it. I was a mess, but how you can blame one man, GW is just silly. People do still have to look out for themselves and not rely on the government to get themselves out of every single situation. We rescued thousands and mistakenly passed out money like it was bubblegum but other than that we all did the best we could.

It wasn't GWB that caused Katrina, Dick Cheney found the keys to George's EVIL weather machine. Excuse me whilst I locate my foil hat....lol

Good grief.

This post has been edited by USAMAN: Aug 25 2008, 04:12 AM


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sigma7
post Aug 25 2008, 04:20 AM
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r u guys serious? GwB ruined America and destroyed the American Economy. There is no middle class. The higher taxes he created resulted my family to be evicted from our house. And furthermore, she just got fired because she was in debt and now we dont have healthcare. My mom is getting her car repossed and George W. Bush f***ed our economy and over a war which originally started with Osama Bin Laden, and wut a good job he did to capture him because we did not enter Pakistan, his country of origin. George Bush is my enemy and for those who do like him, think about wut he has done to u.


o yah, they have my family has Russian accents and believe it or not, they get pulled to the side automatically at the airport, random my ass


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Iron King
post Aug 25 2008, 05:34 AM
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Kahall
how do suppose invading countries and killing fathers and sons is going to help your War on Terror?
How does Iraq relate in anyway to the War on Terror?
The logical first step for the war would be Saudi Arabia right? Almost all the hijackers came from there... oh but wait, GW is friends with them, never mind

The War on Terror is not real
The whole notion of "if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't care about the government spying on you" is pathetic. Terrorism does not negate the constitution, in fact the constitution exist to protect individuals in times like these. I'd rather live and die holding my own ideals of true freedom and peace than blindly bend over to the government and its military industrial complex

as for Fox News... fair and balanced? if you think that then your thoughts on GWB make perfect sense.
It reports lies, it cuts off people that don't agree with their ideals and is used as a propaganda tool for the Republican and Religious right. Former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan admits that the White House distributes notes on what Fox News should cover.

so what was that? Fair and Balanced?
right...

just to end this pointless topic, so I can go back to playing guitar

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security" Benjamin Franklin

...I suppose you know more about the constitution and freedom than one of the founding fathers right?

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fkalich
post Aug 25 2008, 05:47 AM
Post #57


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QUOTE (sigma7 @ Aug 24 2008, 10:20 PM) *
r u guys serious? GwB ruined America and destroyed the American Economy. There is no middle class. The higher taxes he created resulted my family to be evicted from our house. And furthermore, she just got fired because she was in debt and now we dont have healthcare. My mom is getting her car repossed and George W. Bush f***ed our economy and over a war which originally started with Osama Bin Laden, and wut a good job he did to capture him because we did not enter Pakistan, his country of origin. George Bush is my enemy and for those who do like him, think about wut he has done to u.


o yah, they have my family has Russian accents and believe it or not, they get pulled to the side automatically at the airport, random my ass


cares for the rich and gives the leftovers to the poor


My prescription:

1) Kill you tv, totally. And no internet crap. If you use internet, just GMC, and mindless stuff. Nothing that tries to be serious. NO NATIONAL or INTERNATIONAL news broadcasts. Stay away from that like poison, all are poison, BBC, NBC, FOX, NPR, PBS, without exception, just different flavors of poison.

2) Read this book, it is old, but still I think the message is unsurpassed. Just substitute the word internet for tv in places, and it is current.

http://www.amazon.com/Amusing-Ourselves-De...9051&sr=8-1

3) Then read this book, you need to read a really good history book. I can tell. You need to get a dose of real reality. You are just getting brain dope from the media. I don't care what you watch or listen to. It is all brain dope, whatever the source. And I am not talking about just the news. The message is embedded in most of the entertainment, it all will twist your gray cells into convoluted shapes. Society has lost its collective mind, but because it has occurred year by year, in steps, people don't realize that it has happened. But you do detox if you get off it. So read a really good history book, to get a refresher on what the world of man really is, or has been recently.

http://www.amazon.com/World-Arms-Global-Hi...9815&sr=1-1

When people are real ideological you have expressed yourself to be, well you are off base. You may have a lot of people around you that are the same, but that is always out of balance. Things are not like that. We have an elected President. It really is not possible for them to be that bad, they would be impeached out of office if that were the case. You just vote for the best one in you mind, and maybe one is somewhat better than the other, but it is not like one is totally satan and the other wears a white hat. If you look on the world like that, you really need to get out of watching the media, and detox, as I advise.
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MickeM
post Aug 25 2008, 09:02 AM
Post #58


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Now we're heading towards US republicans vs. rest of the world which is bad for the survival of this thread.

I'm locking it for the time being for the US discussion to calm and it might be reopened for further on topic discussions latetr on. Perhaps!

I think fkalich summed it up very well for us.

This post has been edited by MickeM: Aug 25 2008, 09:03 AM


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