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> Band Problem, Troublesome band member
Iluha
post Sep 7 2008, 11:28 AM
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Im currently in a band in wich we are trying some intresting things, one of those features, is that i, and the other guitarist/bassist change instruments depending on the song(on some songs im bass and on the others he is).

The problem is that he doesnt play with the band but rather focuses solely on what he is playing, which causes hes part on the songs to sound the weakest, as if hes not related to the band.

I realise that this is probably happening beacause hes less experienced, but i want to help him, and my band to sound better.

So what can i do to help him?


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kaznie_NL
post Sep 7 2008, 11:31 AM
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Start teaching him? If the band practices once a week, you and the other guy can do another rehearsel. Or just stay for an extra half hour giving him homework and checking his progression.


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Muris Varajic
post Sep 7 2008, 11:31 AM
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Just jam more with him,
jamming is always good to listen to band's members
instead of just listening to what you are playing,which is usually the case
when you're playing certain song,solo etc.

And it does need experience,no doubt. smile.gif


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Bogdan Radovic
post Sep 7 2008, 11:32 AM
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Well first thing you should do is to tell him to focus on the band when playing.Just tell him that.Explain him that you all need to sound good as a BAND no matter how good the individuals are..He has to listen to others on rehearsals/gigs..One more thing though..I would suggest finding a full time bassists or one of you getting that role because it doesn't look/seem professional for band members to change instruments on different songs.

This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: Sep 7 2008, 11:33 AM


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Danilo Capezzuto
post Sep 7 2008, 11:49 AM
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The same damned bassist... biggrin.gif Just jam a lot...give him his time, I'm sure thing will go better...here we have a bassist, so follow his words!


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Oxac
post Sep 7 2008, 12:23 PM
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yea, don't change instruments, it takes time during the performance and it's highly unprofessional. Been there done that.


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Iluha
post Sep 7 2008, 12:40 PM
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Huh? I don't understand, whats unproffesional about it? Please explain.


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Juan M. Valero
post Sep 7 2008, 03:27 PM
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convince him to join here in GMC !!!! biggrin.gif I'm sure it can help him to improve his technique and to give him lot of motivation biggrin.gif

QUOTE (Oxac @ Sep 7 2008, 01:23 PM) *
yea, don't change instruments, it takes time during the performance and it's highly unprofessional. Been there done that.


I don't agree, there are lot of professional orchestras that changes instruments depending on the song.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Sep 7 2008, 03:47 PM
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QUOTE (Iluha @ Sep 7 2008, 01:40 PM) *
Huh? I don't understand, whats unproffesional about it? Please explain.


Well you want to see a band which have regular members, not fill ins...You don't see a famous band do that..As a member of audience I will assume that a band which trades places between bass and guitar either doesn't have a REAL bass player or a REAL guitar player., either way I will see them as not very professional about their band and its members.I've seen people even singers wanting to play drums or something to show off , but that is all very immature of them.

My suggestion would be to either one of you take the permanent roll on bass guitar in that band or to find a regular bassist and play with 2 guitars, that will definitly be better for the band and its future too IMO. smile.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 7 2008, 04:01 PM
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It is good to swap instruments for one song for example, so it is a kind of a interesting thing for the audience, but I must agree with Bogdan, changing instruments a lot on stage is not a cool thing to see I guess. But that's just my opinion, that doesn't mean everybody feels the same way.

Anyway, regarding your band member if you know what the problem is, why don't you speak to him about it. Just tell him nicely, if he's OK guy, I'm sure he will understand and try to listen to the band more. Without honest communication within a band, the band is going nowhere, specially when talking about the musical issues.


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Iluha
post Sep 7 2008, 04:17 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Sep 7 2008, 04:47 PM) *
Well you want to see a band which have regular members, not fill ins...You don't see a famous band do that..As a member of audience I will assume that a band which trades places between bass and guitar either doesn't have a REAL bass player or a REAL guitar player., either way I will see them as not very professional about their band and its members.I've seen people even singers wanting to play drums or something to show off , but that is all very immature of them.

My suggestion would be to either one of you take the permanent roll on bass guitar in that band or to find a regular bassist and play with 2 guitars, that will definitly be better for the band and its future too IMO. smile.gif


I completly disagree.

The band got regular members, were not changing members, and for now we got only one switch planned during a show, so it won't look ridiculous, and will even make sense.

I started writing a whole points defending our decision, but instead I decided to just explain why we decided to do the switching.

The songs we play, atleast for now, don't involve any difficult bass parts and we both can handle the parts very well, but in our guitar playing, we both got VERY diffrent styles of playing, he's playing is very thrasy and shreddy, while mine is more melodic and bluesy, so the songs we do while I'm on guitar are completly diffrent than the songs we play when he is on the guitar.

So it made sense to us to do the switching, half a show he will be on guitar, and than we switch and I'm on guitar(this is only for now, atleast until we do a couple of gigs)

I also don't really want to have two guitars, I really like the concept of just one guitar and bass, and I also don't want the band to be to crowded, and for me, 5 members is too crowded.

Anyways, enough, I don't think I need to defend this decision anymore, as my mind is 100% set on it, and I'm completly shocked I even got such comments on this matter, if I wanted an opinion on this I would have asked for one :/ I know you were only trying to help, but really there's no need to interfere with aspects of my band managing if I didn't ask about it..


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Bogdan Radovic
post Sep 7 2008, 04:39 PM
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QUOTE (Iluha @ Sep 7 2008, 05:17 PM) *
I know you were only trying to help, but really there's no need to interfere with aspects of my band managing if I didn't ask about it..


Well as I said it is my opinion about the "Band members changing instruments during gigs" subject and I tried to explain it why I think like that and give constructive feedback on how to resolve such situations if its needed.So just trying to be helpful nothing more nothing less and of course opinions may differ from person to person so don't take them by heart.These are all great subjects to elaborate and I think its good to touch different matters on band management because even if its not applicable in your band's case it may be for some other guys who reads this. smile.gif

Don't be offended , there is really no need man we are all here to have fun... smile.gif

P.S. when I stated REAL guitarist or bassist I meant a member whose primary instrument is guitar or bass. Didn't mean to be disrespectful.

This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: Sep 7 2008, 05:04 PM


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Smikey2006
post Sep 7 2008, 04:43 PM
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i lost a battle of the bands once because my bassist and me switched instruments for a song sad.gif it was actually so the bassist could go play keys so i took over bass. i believe instrument switches are for people who do not have the ability yet to play the way they want on their instrument, you said your style is more bluesy that shouldn't stop you from being able to play shreddy, my job as a guitarist is to be able to play as much different stuff as possible and to show people i am a good "guitarist" and not to show them i can't do something so i trade instruments with someone. As for the member not sounding good with the band, that could sometimes be settings, i remember playing a rock show with my live metal setup and i sounded really out of place because my tone was very bassy and heavily distorted, people asked if i was even part of the band i sounded so out of place. If its simply that hes not following very well then that is solved by jamming more.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 7 2008, 04:54 PM
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QUOTE (Iluha @ Sep 7 2008, 05:17 PM) *
I completly disagree.

The band got regular members, were not changing members, and for now we got only one switch planned during a show, so it won't look ridiculous, and will even make sense.

I started writing a whole points defending our decision, but instead I decided to just explain why we decided to do the switching.

The songs we play, atleast for now, don't involve any difficult bass parts and we both can handle the parts very well, but in our guitar playing, we both got VERY diffrent styles of playing, he's playing is very thrasy and shreddy, while mine is more melodic and bluesy, so the songs we do while I'm on guitar are completly diffrent than the songs we play when he is on the guitar.

So it made sense to us to do the switching, half a show he will be on guitar, and than we switch and I'm on guitar(this is only for now, atleast until we do a couple of gigs)

I also don't really want to have two guitars, I really like the concept of just one guitar and bass, and I also don't want the band to be to crowded, and for me, 5 members is too crowded.

Anyways, enough, I don't think I need to defend this decision anymore, as my mind is 100% set on it, and I'm completly shocked I even got such comments on this matter, if I wanted an opinion on this I would have asked for one :/ I know you were only trying to help, but really there's no need to interfere with aspects of my band managing if I didn't ask about it..


There's no reason to feel edgy or anything mate, we are all here to help and give advices. I fully respect your band, and if I say I personally don't want to see bands switching often on stage, that doesn't mean I'm trying to interfere with your band management, you got it wrong. I'm just trying to state my opinion on the matter.

I think it is rather cool for band members to switch places on some songs, it gives players different perspectives and views and it can be creative. So, sure you can go on and do the switching, maybe it becomes your band image and make you famous. It's just that I don't like when band members switch instruments a lot on stage, it seems little unpractical to me.

You said it that songs are very different when you take the bass, and your band member take the bass. What I would do is check out which songs work better for the band and continue with that style, so the style is more prominent. That's just my suggestion, no hard feelings mate.



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Andrew Cockburn
post Sep 7 2008, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (Iluha @ Sep 7 2008, 11:17 AM) *
Anyways, enough, I don't think I need to defend this decision anymore, as my mind is 100% set on it, and I'm completly shocked I even got such comments on this matter, if I wanted an opinion on this I would have asked for one :/ I know you were only trying to help, but really there's no need to interfere with aspects of my band managing if I didn't ask about it..


For the record you did ask for advice, you just didn't get the advice you wanted - but you did put this whole scenario out there for people to comment on.

I'd think a little bit about this reaction - this is the way that arguments start and next time Bogdan and Ivan may well say "Oh, it's Iluha, I can't be bothered he'll only take it the wrong way again ..." and then everyone will be worse off.


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SensE
post Sep 7 2008, 05:13 PM
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Iluha, Take it easy, man. We are here to have fun, right?
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Iluha
post Sep 7 2008, 05:48 PM
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I didn't take it the wrong way, I took it as it is, and I showed my side to the things...

Smikey: I find it hard to bealive you'r band didn't win only because of instrument switching, and I don't want to play shred, I never felt the need to shred, and I just prefer more melodic play, again, like I said, I want to be a good musician, not guitarist.

Andrew: I asked for advice on a completly diffrent matter that had nothing to do with the band structure and preformance.

As usual, which seems to happen quite often with me because I can get very defensive of things I'm completly confident in, and my responses get misunderstood as edgy/harsh, which really isn't the case, Bogdan knows how much I respect him and I talk to him often on messanger about bass, preforming, and whatnot.

But on this specific case I disagree with him, and other than being misunderstood I didn't show any hostile signs... sorry if it seems that way, again.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Sep 7 2008, 06:21 PM
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Posts can seem to give out different expressions (then they are meant when wrote) smile.gif I felt my first answer was on the topic regarding your original questions (and I also added the response to question how to make the whole bend sound better).Later on we touched other questions like structure and everything, and I feel they are all interconnected in a band situation/advancement.I'm really glad we are all on the same page now and having a healthy discussion smile.gif Keep rocking Iluha!

This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: Sep 7 2008, 06:25 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Sep 7 2008, 07:03 PM
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No hard feelings mate, I wish that you solve this issue with a band member soon.

How often do you rehearse btw? More rehearsals will solve the problem by it self that's for sure, and also mentioning your band member that he needs to pay more attention.


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Iluha
post Sep 7 2008, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Sep 7 2008, 08:03 PM) *
No hard feelings mate, I wish that you solve this issue with a band member soon.

How often do you rehearse btw? More rehearsals will solve the problem by it self that's for sure, and also mentioning your band member that he needs to pay more attention.


We rhearse once a week, yeah, jamming more is acually a good simple solution that for some reason I didn't think about, so thanks to whoever suggested that, I will defintly jam with him more, and tell him to try and focus on what me and the drummer are doing.

Personally, I think that when we have our first gig it should help him greatly, because I also get the feeling that right now because he doesn't have any stage experience, he still thinks of playing with us as if it's just like playing in his bedroom with a backingtrack/song, so I hope our first gig will also help smile.gif


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