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> Everyone That Wants To Learn To Jam, Take a look at this NOW!
Ivan Milenkovic
post Oct 15 2008, 07:27 PM
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Thanks for sharing that diagram, I had a bunch of fretsheets written when I was learning the scales, I used to put them on the wall so I can always watch them, and it was pretty useful.


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kjutte
post Oct 15 2008, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Oct 15 2008, 08:27 PM) *
Thanks for sharing that diagram, I had a bunch of fretsheets written when I was learning the scales, I used to put them on the wall so I can always watch them, and it was pretty useful.


Me too man!
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Guitar1969
post Oct 15 2008, 10:12 PM
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QUOTE (jdriver @ Oct 14 2008, 08:04 PM) *
I took a different approach as a total beginner, in that I knew from the start there must be some kind of organisation, players didn't just pull those positions out of thin air. So I started as a virgin with Fretboard Logic and the CAGED system, then learned the pentatonics, then added the diatonics. Now I can jam, but as Pedja said, it sounds very predictable. But now I can really appreciate a diagram as posted here. I still don't really understand how to use modes, but I'm starting with a real teacher soon.


Jdriver:
This diagram looks alot like the Lead Pattern 1 and Lead Pattern 2 as taught in Fretboard Logic 1 doesn't it. Fretboard logic uses a skeleton of this(Based off partial pentatonics), but it is an easy roadmap that takes you all the way up and down the fretboard spanning 10 frets across all strings, with a root note on the 5th or 6th string I mentioned that Fretboard Logic diagram in the past here, and nobody was aware of it, but I can see it now in there and the additional notes if I add back the 4th and 7th notes to the major pentatonic.

I would post the pattern I am referring to, but don't know how to create my own scale diagrams - Do you guys use a specific software for this.

Thanks,


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Guitar1969
post Oct 15 2008, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ Oct 15 2008, 10:19 AM) *
It shows where to put your fingers. I don't see how that can be confusing-> no offense of course!

Feel free to ask.



Correct! However, to really modulate you need to change your rootchord aswell.
Anyway, I find this pattern very nice for illustrating how it all hangs together.

Many get the idea that they have to learn 100 scales to be good, but that's not true at all.

So looking at this more I have a few questions - These might be more based upon proper usage of modes and sorry if I am asking something that has been answered elsewhere, but I am trying to relate this to the Diagram and just recently started looking into modes, so this is a more practical understanding.

Up till now I am pretty much playing a particular scale(such as Home position Major pentatonic) over the whole chord progression, accenting various notes. I am just starting to learn to move to different positions of the scale based upon the chord progression. The beauty of Pentatonic and Diatonic scales is that you can move the same shape to a different root note over a chord progression without much thought.

So if I am understanding modes correctly, you move to the related mode during the chord progression, which basically is a different scale shape for each chord your playing over.

Is that correct? or am I way off

So looking at the above diagram, lets say the chord progression is: C F G (I IV V), would I be playing Ionian for C chord, Lydian for F chord , and Mixolydian for G Chord., moving from the root of 8fret low E to 13th fret, to 15th fret accordingly.

Thanks for any clarification you can provide(Modes confuse and scare me).

This post has been edited by Guitar1969: Oct 16 2008, 12:09 AM


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Pedja Simovic
post Oct 16 2008, 12:51 AM
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QUOTE (Guitar1969 @ Oct 15 2008, 11:41 PM) *
So looking at this more I have a few questions - These might be more based upon proper usage of modes and sorry if I am asking something that has been answered elsewhere, but I am trying to relate this to the Diagram and just recently started looking into modes, so this is a more practical understanding.

Up till now I am pretty much playing a particular scale(such as Home position Major pentatonic) over the whole chord progression, accenting various notes. I am just starting to learn to move to different positions of the scale based upon the chord progression. The beauty of Pentatonic and Diatonic scales is that you can move the same shape to a different root note over a chord progression without much thought.

So if I am understanding modes correctly, you move to the related mode during the chord progression, which basically is a different scale shape for each chord your playing over.

Is that correct? or am I way off

So looking at the above diagram, lets say the chord progression is: C F G (I IV V), would I be playing Ionian for C chord, Lydian for F chord , and Mixolydian for G Chord., moving from the root of 8fret low E to 13th fret, to 15th fret accordingly.

Thanks for any clarification you can provide(Modes confuse and scare me).



You got it spot on!
But read back my response on those jumps in the previous posts.
Good luck with it. If you are already playing by ear this will be piece of cake for you.
Thanks


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Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Oct 16 2008, 03:52 AM
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I think this should be moved to the Theory Board, and it deserves a Sticky aswell.

Great Topic wink.gif


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Guitar1969
post Oct 16 2008, 05:57 AM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Oct 15 2008, 03:51 PM) *
You got it spot on!
But read back my response on those jumps in the previous posts.
Good luck with it. If you are already playing by ear this will be piece of cake for you.
Thanks


Yeah I'm not ready for that yet , but it will help down the road as I learn more about modes. Not fully understanding what the benefit of modes are yet since they are the same notes , just in a different starting order, but I need to spend more time with it.

Thanks,
mh


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kjutte
post Oct 16 2008, 08:30 AM
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QUOTE (Guitar1969 @ Oct 15 2008, 11:41 PM) *
So looking at this more I have a few questions - These might be more based upon proper usage of modes and sorry if I am asking something that has been answered elsewhere, but I am trying to relate this to the Diagram and just recently started looking into modes, so this is a more practical understanding.

Up till now I am pretty much playing a particular scale(such as Home position Major pentatonic) over the whole chord progression, accenting various notes. I am just starting to learn to move to different positions of the scale based upon the chord progression. The beauty of Pentatonic and Diatonic scales is that you can move the same shape to a different root note over a chord progression without much thought.

So if I am understanding modes correctly, you move to the related mode during the chord progression, which basically is a different scale shape for each chord your playing over.

Is that correct? or am I way off

So looking at the above diagram, lets say the chord progression is: C F G (I IV V), would I be playing Ionian for C chord, Lydian for F chord , and Mixolydian for G Chord., moving from the root of 8fret low E to 13th fret, to 15th fret accordingly.

Thanks for any clarification you can provide(Modes confuse and scare me).


I didn't write this post for modal teaching mate, it's just to teach one to jam.

As I stated, start off by getting backing tracks you know the key of, and use this diagram to lead your fingers.

If you want to learn about modes, in my opinion it's wasted time if you don't knowhow to jam much already.

Edit:
And regarding your question, there, no, that's not entirely right. If you play the chords seperately, it would be - but in this case it's the full modal progression of C Ionian.

The reason that the diagram puts "I VII" degrees + names is for you to identify the locations of the chord degrees, also scale patterns. Again, it's just a tool to help your fingers fret the right places.

Your modulation options are decided by the chord progression.

And another edit:
You don't have to play Mixo on G etc, because all the modes here contain the same notes, so it's all the same scale. Therefore you can play Gmixo all the time on Cmaj chord, et cetera.

I hope this clarifies.

This post has been edited by kjutte: Oct 16 2008, 08:34 AM
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Guitar1969
post Oct 16 2008, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ Oct 15 2008, 11:30 PM) *
I didn't write this post for modal teaching mate, it's just to teach one to jam.

As I stated, start off by getting backing tracks you know the key of, and use this diagram to lead your fingers.

If you want to learn about modes, in my opinion it's wasted time if you don't knowhow to jam much already.

Edit:
And regarding your question, there, no, that's not entirely right. If you play the chords seperately, it would be - but in this case it's the full modal progression of C Ionian.

The reason that the diagram puts "I VII" degrees + names is for you to identify the locations of the chord degrees, also scale patterns. Again, it's just a tool to help your fingers fret the right places.

Your modulation options are decided by the chord progression.

And another edit:
You don't have to play Mixo on G etc, because all the modes here contain the same notes, so it's all the same scale. Therefore you can play Gmixo all the time on Cmaj chord, et cetera.

I hope this clarifies.



Thanks for the additional info - Cool


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