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ItsMe
post Oct 16 2008, 10:55 PM
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Ever used hexatonic scales in an impro. A friend of mine is a jazz musician. On day he showed me a cool concept. The hexatonics. Hexatonics are elegantly simple. They consist of two mutually exclusive triads, usually a whole step apart, which are combined to create a six note scale. He showed me a book by Jerry Bergonzi (awesome sax player) that dives deeply into the concept. Anyway its a cool tool for improvising. I just start to use it. Still have no real clue. But I saw Jerry live a while ago and could identify some hexatonic passages in his playing. Now I work more on it and perhaps put a little diagram together if I find time. Anyway check it out


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Matt23
post Oct 16 2008, 11:19 PM
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Can they be any triad?
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Ramiro Delforte
post Oct 16 2008, 11:37 PM
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I'm doing a dominant series lesson, all the scales that you can play over a dominant chord. The fourth part is going to be about the hexatonic scale and the diminished scale.
Also you can check the theory that Sid Jacobs use.

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Pedja Simovic
post Oct 17 2008, 12:08 AM
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I use hexatonics a lot !

Keep in mind that triads don't have to be whole step apart. You can use other intervals as well.
I will do lessons with this techniques soon so you will have chance to check it out smile.gif

Jerry Bergonzi is awesome and I still have his books - very useful stuff - read it all and get to practicing with backing tracks!



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kjutte
post Oct 17 2008, 12:44 AM
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Quick explanation on what a hexatonic is?
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Ramiro Delforte
post Oct 17 2008, 12:56 AM
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Hexatonic is a scale that was invented to expand the tonality at the end of the 19th century. Impressionist composers like Debussy used that scale to create different sensations.
To resume this scale is constructed all with whole tones and there are only 2.

Hexatonic 1: C-D-E-F#-G#-A#-C

Hexatonic 2: Db-Eb-F-G-A-B-Db

Is a six note scale (hexa= six). The chords that you can make with this scale are all the same because is a symetrical scale. For example: C7 (#5). You can make that chord thinking the A# as a Bb, and every chord you make is the same: D7 (#5), E7 (#5), F#7 (#5), G#7 (#5), A#7 (#5). The same with the other hexatonic.

I hope it was useful.

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Pedja Simovic
post Oct 17 2008, 01:07 AM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ Oct 17 2008, 01:44 AM) *
Quick explanation on what a hexatonic is?



6 note scale - hexa = six
penta = five

Old Greek words

QUOTE (Ramiro Delforte @ Oct 17 2008, 01:56 AM) *
Hexatonic is a scale that was invented to expand the tonality at the end of the 19th century. Impressionist composers like Debussy used that scale to create different sensations.
To resume this scale is constructed all with whole tones and there are only 2.

Hexatonic 1: C-D-E-F#-G#-A#-C

Hexatonic 2: Db-Eb-F-G-A-B-Db

Is a six note scale (hexa= six). The chords that you can make with this scale are all the same because is a symetrical scale. For example: C7 (#5). You can make that chord thinking the A# as a Bb, and every chord you make is the same: D7 (#5), E7 (#5), F#7 (#5), G#7 (#5), A#7 (#5). The same with the other hexatonic.

I hope it was useful.

biggrin.gif


Ramiro was referring to Whole tone scale which is also 6 note scale or Hexatonic.
What ItsMe was saying is a little bit different. It is Jerry Bergonzi concept , he has a special book on this called Hexatonics. It basically teaches you how to take TWO TRIADS and put them together into scale, make melodies, sequences out of it and use it in improvising.

Hope this helps.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 17 2008, 09:31 AM
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Well you've lost me biggrin.gif


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Matt23
post Oct 17 2008, 10:43 AM
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Think i've got this. Will the last note of this scale always be 3 semitones away from the octave?
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Muris Varajic
post Oct 17 2008, 11:39 AM
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QUOTE (Matt23 @ Oct 17 2008, 11:43 AM) *
Think i've got this. Will the last note of this scale always be 3 semitones away from the octave?


Doesn't have to be,depends of the triads you're using. smile.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Oct 17 2008, 11:58 AM
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I will try not to loose it

This is as simple as I can get

Any two triads

C major + G major

C maj = C E G ; F# maj = F# A# C#(Db)

Hexatonic scale would go like this C Db E F# G A# ©

Makes sense?


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 17 2008, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Oct 17 2008, 11:58 AM) *
I will try not to loose it

This is as simple as I can get

Any two triads

C major + G major

C maj = C E G ; F# maj = F# A# C#(Db)

Hexatonic scale would go like this C Db E F# G A# ©

Makes sense?

huh.gif I thought you said we were using C Major and G Major. huh.gif


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 17 2008, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Oct 17 2008, 01:00 PM) *
huh.gif I thought you said we were using C Major and G Major. huh.gif


I believe Pedja meant C and F# triads, a typo. smile.gif


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 17 2008, 12:05 PM
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So basically the scale is just made up of the 6 notes from the two triads?


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 17 2008, 12:08 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Oct 17 2008, 01:05 PM) *
So basically the scale is just made up of the 6 notes from the two triads?


Yeah.
So bare in mind,these scales are not like diatonic scales we use most
of the time,when we make chords from the scale,
here it's totally opposite approach,you make scale from the chords,
2 chords that have different notes so you could get 6 different notes for the scale.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 17 2008, 12:10 PM
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Cool. Sounds like an interesting concept smile.gif I might try it out in some recordings.


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 17 2008, 12:15 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Oct 17 2008, 01:10 PM) *
Cool. Sounds like an interesting concept smile.gif I might try it out in some recordings.


Give it a shot. smile.gif

This is totally different concept tho,
which doesn't mean you must have only those 2 chords in progression,
it's just another way to add new SOUND into your lead playing. smile.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Oct 17 2008, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Oct 17 2008, 01:00 PM) *
huh.gif I thought you said we were using C Major and G Major. huh.gif


Big typo !
sorry

QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 17 2008, 01:15 PM) *
Give it a shot. smile.gif

This is totally different concept tho,
which doesn't mean you must have only those 2 chords in progression,
it's just another way to add new SOUND into your lead playing. smile.gif



Exactly
This is just another cool tool in your improvisation and melodic statement.
Work on it , and it will show in your playing.


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kjutte
post Oct 17 2008, 04:29 PM
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QUOTE (Ramiro Delforte @ Oct 17 2008, 01:56 AM) *
Hexatonic is a scale that was invented to expand the tonality at the end of the 19th century. Impressionist composers like Debussy used that scale to create different sensations.
To resume this scale is constructed all with whole tones and there are only 2.

Hexatonic 1: C-D-E-F#-G#-A#-C

Hexatonic 2: Db-Eb-F-G-A-B-Db

Is a six note scale (hexa= six). The chords that you can make with this scale are all the same because is a symetrical scale. For example: C7 (#5). You can make that chord thinking the A# as a Bb, and every chord you make is the same: D7 (#5), E7 (#5), F#7 (#5), G#7 (#5), A#7 (#5). The same with the other hexatonic.

I hope it was useful.

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Ah, I use that often.
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Matt23
post Oct 17 2008, 05:35 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 17 2008, 11:39 AM) *
Doesn't have to be,depends of the triads you're using. smile.gif


But if they're a tone apart then then the 5th of the highest triad will always be 3 semitones from the tonic won't it. Or can you use diminshed and augmented triads?
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