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> Alternate Picking Trouble
besip
post Oct 17 2008, 03:04 AM
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HI...I'm wana talk about alternate picking
actualy i'm start practising many types of speed exersizes..like alternate..picking run...Chromatic scale run...scale run..
patern run and more...but i'm can still can avoid bad right hand move when i'm do for example scale run when i'm play over more string {3-6}..usualy i'm know how i'm have to finish to picking{upstroke or downstroke}..but not everythime i'm make this right and the problem is i'm not recognizing where i'm do the mistake if i'm try to play a litle faster...to train this with playing realy slow for long time be boring and probaly also when i'm play realy slow the hand movment is diferent ...

i'm already trying to use smaal moves {which is right i'm belive} with right hand when i'm play alternate...do i'm maybe have to try play with biger moves for better recognize what to do???? or any other recomedations????

THX- Rene cool.gif

This post has been edited by besip: Oct 17 2008, 03:06 AM


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wrk
post Oct 17 2008, 08:00 AM
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I'm not a really good alt. picker when it comes to speed, but i practice this a lot as well at the moment, so maybe my experiences could help you as there are still fresh smile.gif

Sure it can be boring to play slow all the time, but i'm afraid there is no way around that smile.gif. When you go up in speed, just add 2-3 bpm, it was helping me to just add 1 bpm so that i don't really realize the difference.

What was interesting for me was, i gained more and more control, but no increasing of speed for a long time, so i gave up at some point to be able to pick fast. Shortly after speed and synchronization was just coming ... don't focus on speed too much.

Danilo's lessons "Right Hand Basics" will maybe help you. The concept of these lessons was helping me a lot, because i could focus on the right hand only.
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...ht-hand-basic1/

You said, you can not localize at which point you are doing mistakes, first that means your are playing to fast at this point as you loose control of your picking. It is most likely that you do mistakes when going to another string. Focus on this part, practice to switch between two strings only, but on different strings as it feels differently on higher or lower strings (E-A, A-D, D-g, g-b, b-e).

Small or big moves, i don't know .. small moves may sound logic to be faster, but bigger move seems to work as well seeing Muris's way of picking smile.gif ... i have more control and felling for rhythm with bigger moves, but i still try to figure out what is the best.

Hope it helps bit .. smile.gif





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Oxac
post Oct 17 2008, 08:32 AM
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When it comes to small moves vs big moves.

It depends on how you do i. You shouldn't start lacking tone, then you'r not doing it right. Try to sound the same but with smaller moves and try to do it VERY relaxed. I consider myself to be a pretty good alt. picker and my advice is just to practise perfect. You have to always play perfect. Never play sloppy EVER. And to do that you have to slow down the tempo by a ridicolous amount. Because your right half of the brain is your "muscle" memory. It contains things that you just "know" like, if you see 12 trees and start counting them 1 by 1 then it's your left brain. But if you see 3 trees, you can immidietly recognize them as three trees. That's your right half of the brain. So what you want to do is to use your left brain, to teach your right brain how to play flawlessly. This applies to everything.

-edit- Also I have you tell ya... I cheat and I know it.

This post has been edited by Oxac: Oct 17 2008, 08:33 AM


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 17 2008, 11:38 AM
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I would go for just a little bit bigger moves when playing slow
and there are few reasons for that.
First,since it's alternate picking you need to follow your
right hand motion,I know you easily used to switch to economy,
with bigger moves you'll have better control on what you're doing.
Second,you must hear and feel that you're picking every note right,
with bigger moves you have more chance to get better attack on the strings.
And third,naturally you won't be able to do the same wider moves
when you play it faster,hand will reduce movements by itself
and those will still be the same movements,just not that wide
because the speed will not allow it that way.

Once again,I'm talking about reasonably bigger moves,nothing radically big. smile.gif


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besip
post Oct 17 2008, 12:22 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 17 2008, 05:38 AM) *
I
Once again,I'm talking about reasonably bigger moves,nothing radically big. smile.gif



i'm will try it cool.gif ..hope thats help and i'm belive soon or later my hand shoot have something like muscle memory and then i'm be can transfet this without thinking to play faster and be afraid to made mistake

hope thats help if note...i'm will try another way mad.gif smile.gif


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Muris Varajic
post Oct 17 2008, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE (besip @ Oct 17 2008, 01:22 PM) *
i'm will try it cool.gif ..hope thats help and i'm belive soon or later my hand shoot have something like muscle memory and then i'm be can transfet this without thinking to play faster and be afraid to made mistake

hope thats help if note...i'm will try another way mad.gif smile.gif


Absolutely, it IS about muscle memory. smile.gif


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Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Oct 17 2008, 12:25 PM
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Also Besip, Something you might want to look into is Accenting. Its harder to identify at slower speeds but if you build good "Accentation" or making lets say the first note in every pattern that your playing stand out, you'll feel as if you have more control over your playing.

Look into Pavel's Alternate Picking Lessons for more help on this. He gives a better description then I do.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 17 2008, 12:25 PM
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I have problems when alternate picking changing between strings. I can pick fairly quick on one string but switching between 2 my picking goes off and my coordination is lost sad.gif


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Marek Rojewski
post Oct 17 2008, 12:47 PM
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Maybe try to change the angle of pick--string. I usually have a very small angle, so the sound is stronger for me, but when You play faster it makes things more difficult, as the pick isn't sliding from the string so easy. When I focus to maintain 35-45 degree angle between my pick and string, playing is easier, but I don't like the sound of it ( most probably, because I do something wrong than:/ ).


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Jose Mena
post Oct 17 2008, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (besip @ Oct 17 2008, 07:22 AM) *
i'm will try it cool.gif ..hope thats help and i'm belive soon or later my hand shoot have something like muscle memory and then i'm be can transfet this without thinking to play faster and be afraid to made mistake

hope thats help if note...i'm will try another way mad.gif smile.gif

You stole the words I was going to use, muscle memory is what it is about when playing fast, to get there you just need patience.

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Oct 17 2008, 07:25 AM) *
I have problems when alternate picking changing between strings. I can pick fairly quick on one string but switching between 2 my picking goes off and my coordination is lost sad.gif

This is a common problem when, I guess we all go through it, What I did for the longest time to over come this is play a very short lick that ends with the first note on the next string, for instance:

Lets talk about 3 note per string scale shapes

-------------
-------------
-------------
-------------
---------3---
--3-5-7-----

I would practice that over and over, until I heard every note clearly, especially that last note, which gives you problems, then I would add another string, simply because the stroke is different every time you start on a new string. So next exercise would be:

--------------------
--------------------
--------------------
----------------4--
---------3-5-7-----
--3-5-7------------

Again practice that over and over concentrating on that last note. This helped me overcome changing strings problem when alternate picking, hopefully it is useful to you.


QUOTE (Marek Rojewski @ Oct 17 2008, 07:47 AM) *
Maybe try to change the angle of pick--string. I usually have a very small angle, so the sound is stronger for me, but when You play faster it makes things more difficult, as the pick isn't sliding from the string so easy. When I focus to maintain 35-45 degree angle between my pick and string, playing is easier, but I don't like the sound of it ( most probably, because I do something wrong than:/ ).


I also found that picking at an angle of about 45 gives me greater speed. However the problem was that with round tip picks that I used (dunlop tortex 1mm), I heard the sound of the pick rubbing against the string, I wanted that to be shorter and hear more of the actual note, so I switched to jazz3 picks.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 17 2008, 02:40 PM
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Thanks for the help. I think that sounds like a sensible idea. It's really something I need to improve so thanks for that smile.gif


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Marek Rojewski
post Oct 17 2008, 08:30 PM
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Thanks Jose! I ordered some picks without rounded tip few days ago, so maybe it will help:)


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besip
post Oct 18 2008, 12:27 AM
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Thanks for all advice wink.gif

i'm will try change the movement also i'm will try to play with the pick angle and also maybe it's be ok try change the presure with i'm holding the pick

i'm will try all recomedations tongue.gif


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besip
post Oct 18 2008, 04:58 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Oct 17 2008, 02:00 AM) *
, practice to switch between two strings only, but on different strings as it feels differently on higher or lower strings (E-A, A-D, D-g, g-b, b-e).


Hope it helps bit .. smile.gif



i'm don't have proble play on 2 string..for example there i'm don't made mistake when i'm play 3 note /90 bpm
problem is start when i'm play over 3 string...

what i'm probally need to do is stay with my speed and increase my speedd over 2 string...but get lower speed when i'm play over more string


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wrk
post Oct 18 2008, 06:52 AM
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QUOTE (besip @ Oct 18 2008, 05:58 AM) *
i'm don't have proble play on 2 string..for example there i'm don't made mistake when i'm play 3 note /90 bpm
problem is start when i'm play over 3 string...

great, if 2 strings is not a problem anymore then continue with 3 strings. Jose gave a good example above.
Better is to continue to do both. smile.gif

Like others said before, try different picking technics. To angle the pick could be good idea, it will be easier maybe. I did the opposite and try now to keep the pick parallel ... in my opinion the sound has more punch when picking the strings, but thats personal taste.




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besip
post Oct 20 2008, 12:20 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Oct 17 2008, 06:24 AM) *
Absolutely, it IS about muscle memory. smile.gif



u must be 100% sure..actualy i'm was found out somethin interesing now..i'm try to play the alternare SLOWLY ON CLEAN CHANEL with biger hand motion..and when i'm concetrate for the right hand motion i'm feel pretty dam like robot machine...looks like before i'm pay attentions more for left hand and freting when i'm try play{wana concetrate} right hand alternate

thats funny bud when i'm concetrate for the right hand motion my left hand feel like i'm be learning sweping laugh.gif
but it's feel good when booth hand is synchronize....i'm far from transport that to my realy speed picking but is't feel good wink.gif

like i'm say i'm just concetrate to made biger moves with my right hand and when i'm play slowly thats feel good
actualy i'm must say what ispired me to change something was your alternate pickin lesson third..actualy i'm not learning the lesson but i'm was see when i'm watch the lesson closely...you biger moves with right hand{usualy when u play somethin realy fast u dont use that}

i'm will try to continue to practise that...i'm belive when my muscle memorize that i'm be can apply to the speed quickly tongue.gif

Rene

This post has been edited by besip: Oct 20 2008, 12:22 AM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Oct 20 2008, 12:45 AM
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I'm maybe too late in this topic Besip mate, but I think practicing slow is the key after all. You shouldn't be too concerned how you can make different moves with practicing too slow. I think that, along side with precision is the way to achieve hi speed. Hi speed on individual runs is not something that is a hard thing to achieve really, just by practicing it comes by itself eventually.


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besip
post Oct 20 2008, 01:01 AM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Oct 19 2008, 06:45 PM) *
I'm maybe too late in this topic Besip mate, but I think practicing slow is the key after all. You shouldn't be too concerned how you can make different moves with practicing too slow. I think that, along side with precision is the way to achieve hi speed. Hi speed on individual runs is not something that is a hard thing to achieve really, just by practicing it comes by itself eventually.



you right actualy..i'm able to play clean 3 note per string exersizes on 90bpm but just on 2 string when i'm go to 3 string and more i'm made mistakes..i'm answering Muris here few minutes ago and i'm find out slow is good..when i'm trying to made alternare..also litle biger movement help me a lot..and thats can sound funny from me becouse usualy i'm looking if my fingers freting right...but when i'm don't look the neck and play slow 3 note over 3 string and concetrate to moving my right hands up-down thats feel great and aslo i'm heer the sound well

This post has been edited by besip: Oct 20 2008, 01:03 AM


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