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> Songwriting - Metal, Writing a song from scratch
Jose Mena
post Oct 21 2008, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Oct 21 2008, 09:58 AM) *
Is the right side guitar doing thirds all the way up to the verse riff?

yes

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Oct 21 2008, 09:59 AM) *

Cool funny guide. I guess Organized confusion is trying to say that we should be original when creating music . I agree that we should not strictly follow rules or guidelines, as that could be done by anyone. But as we write the first songs it is easier to get started with something to have an idea of song structure. Then go ahead break all rules and be innovative.

I've written songs like this, knowing what I am shooting for and analyzing every aspect, then I've written others while I drive home and an Idea comes into mind, Or simply Jamming with my brothers and something comes up, other times I've set the click to different tempos while I improvise scales over it, and and interesting melodic line pops out, and make that a song, there are so many ways to write and you should find the one that suits you best.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 21 2008, 03:27 PM
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Originality is key but the best way I find is by jamming with friends lots and just trying to get a riff or a melody in your head or a line of lyrics and go from there. If you jam it out then find out what key you're playing in and improvise a bit more in that key. If you dream of a riff then tab it out and transcribe it for guitar. And if you have a line of lyrics try and sing it and strum chords under it to get a key that you like for the music and try and write in that key.

There are lots of ways to do it and I have created songs using all 3 of these ways. Songwriting is easy but writing good songs is far from easy. I must scrap 9 riffs from every 10 I write. But that 1 riff I'm normally really happy with.


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Jose Mena
post Oct 21 2008, 04:27 PM
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Yes, you want to write from inspiration, but there is always an explanation to why something sounds a certain way. For instance I describe that I decided to use natural minor because I wanted it to be like simple old fashioned metal, Even if you think that you don't know the scale you are playing and you come up with a similar riff, you chose minor because of its sound, maybe you played a major third somewhere and didn't like the sound of it, and found that the minor third suits the song best, you might not be thinking about it but the knowledge is there, the minor third sounds more metal to you, so you build the riff around that without even knowing you have already chosen a scale, but you have.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 21 2008, 04:29 PM
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I don't really know my scales too well but I do tend to put a lot of notes out of the scale in. I wish I knew theory to understand this and why some notes work better.


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Jose Mena
post Oct 21 2008, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Oct 21 2008, 11:29 AM) *
I don't really know my scales too well but I do tend to put a lot of notes out of the scale in. I wish I knew theory to understand this and why some notes work better.

Believe me, if you are writing music, you kind of already know them, the notes you choose on your riffs or chord progressions give you different emotions.

For instance say you play a E power chord and then you play A#, that gives you a dark sound, that is the famous flat 5th interval, tritone.

Some Metal players, chose these intervals between chords to get that heavy dark sound. Examples of intervals like these can be heard in bands such as Pantera, and Symphony X, you might be playing these same chords, not consciously knowing , but your ear tells you that a certain chord is what you are looking for because you wanted that dark sound.

So it is just a matter of sitting down and seeing what are the names of the stuff you already know. And it helps


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audiopaal
post Oct 21 2008, 06:35 PM
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Very nice Jose, that was awesome smile.gif

Thanks for sharing!!
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jer
post Oct 21 2008, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE
So it is just a matter of sitting down and seeing what are the names of the stuff you already know. And it helps


Its helpful when trying to communicate with other musicans too.

"Hey, try a tritone there." or "Try a third harmony of that line."

Is easier to say and understand than not having those terms to use.

"Hey try that higher note thing. No not that, higher, no, higher, there ya go!"

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Toroso
post Oct 21 2008, 07:09 PM
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QUOTE (Jose Mena @ Oct 21 2008, 09:49 AM) *
The second guitar doesn't play the exact same thing but rather plays thirds of the main riff to make it evident that there are 2 guitars playing.


Could you explain to a dummy what this means?


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Jose Mena
post Oct 21 2008, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (Toroso @ Oct 21 2008, 02:09 PM) *
Could you explain to a dummy what this means?

It means that you follow whatever the other guitar is doing a third below or above in this case, following the scale you are playing

the scale for this song is E F# G A B C D, so if one guitar plays an E, the other plays G, if the guitar plays A the other plays C. Simple concept, sounds very cool.


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jer
post Oct 21 2008, 07:46 PM
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you hear it a lot in leads.

Like this tune from the Metal God himself.

HALFORD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uWB-x-jV3Y

:11 to :20



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Toroso
post Oct 21 2008, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (Jose Mena @ Oct 21 2008, 02:21 PM) *
It means that you follow whatever the other guitar is doing a third below or above in this case, following the scale you are playing

the scale for this song is E F# G A B C D, so if one guitar plays an E, the other plays G, if the guitar plays A the other plays C. Simple concept, sounds very cool.


Thanks! I learned something today. My quota is full. tongue.gif


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Jose Mena
post Oct 23 2008, 03:08 PM
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Now for the second riff:

I usually make the verse sound quieter when it comes to guitar, I use more palm muting or come up with something that will help draw the attention away from the guitars a little, as you want to hear more of the leas singer, or lead guitar, or any lead instrument.

I didn't want to change keys, but changed the chord progression a little, and I don't simply let the chords ring for 1 or 2 bars, I tried to think of ways to make it interesting and my own by using some single notes between chords, and silences. This can really make a difference when you are creating a song and are using some Old chord progression that has been used over and over and you want to give it your own personal touch.

If you are currently working on a song that might have a simple chord progression, maybe you could try adding things like these, to make it sound different, it is a matter of taste to, sometimes arrangements like these won't work for a certain piece do don't force it, it should feel natural.

The point here is, that there should be a difference between what you use in you chorus riffs or arrangements, and what you use in the verse. Usually the chorus sounds louder, busier, even with simple songs that keep the entire piece with the same chord progression the make a difference by probably playing louder, adding more distortion, adding another guitar playing a simple repetitive arrangement, more background vocals.

I guess you could be really experimental and try otherwise, I am trying to think of songs that don't do this, and nothing comes to my mind.

Later

This post has been edited by Jose Mena: Oct 23 2008, 03:08 PM


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jer
post Oct 29 2008, 01:35 PM
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I follow ya.

More!!!!

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Jose Mena
post Nov 9 2008, 03:15 PM
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The lesson about it is up, check it out

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/songwriting-metal/


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Fingerspasm
post Nov 9 2008, 03:24 PM
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Great lesson! I am starting to practice it now. And I am really enjoying the theory aspect of it at the same time. My question is when you are playing in an alternate tuning like this do you still play the E minor scale in the same location as the normal tuning? I hope this makes sense. This is one of the reasons I have stayed away from alternate tunings up to this point. I am always confused as to how to apply the scales.


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Jose Mena
post Nov 9 2008, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (Fingerspasm @ Nov 9 2008, 09:24 AM) *
Great lesson! I am starting to practice it now. And I am really enjoying the theory aspect of it at the same time. My question is when you are playing in an alternate tuning like this do you still play the E minor scale in the same location as the normal tuning? I hope this makes sense. This is one of the reasons I have stayed away from alternate tunings up to this point. I am always confused as to how to apply the scales.

For the sake of simplicity when I tune down half step or whole step I would rather call the notes by the position, So here the song is actually played in D, but for simplicity let's say it is E (because of what we are actually fretting).



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Fingerspasm
post Nov 9 2008, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE (Jose Mena @ Nov 9 2008, 08:27 AM) *
For the sake of simplicity when I tune down half step or whole step I would rather call the notes by the position, So here the song is actually played in D, but for simplicity let's say it is E (because of what we are actually fretting).


So then you play the E minor scale in the same position on the neck as if you were in standard tuning? Sorry if I am being dense. I am sure that's what you mean but I just want to make sure since this has been a point of confusion for me.


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skennington
post Nov 9 2008, 05:56 PM
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Awesome tune Jose and well explained! Checking out the lesson now! smile.gif


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Jesse
post Nov 9 2008, 06:11 PM
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Jesse
post Nov 9 2008, 06:11 PM
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