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> Obama V. Mccain, Youtube Video
fatb0t
post Oct 23 2008, 07:13 PM
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Considering the past 8 years, how could we not afford a change? Something needs to change, we certainly cannot keep going this way. If you're a conservative, please explain to me how it is that the US dollar - the once unversial currency - the currency that everyone compared their national currency has lost NEARLY HALF OF ITS VALUE? How can you explain our exponential growth in US debt? How can you explain to me the unaccountability of the Republican administration in terms of misleading the public : telling us that saddam has WMDs, having the public believe Iraq had ties to Al Quieda? I mean, can we REALLY afford to have another 4 years (probably 8) of that?
Am I to say Obama won't do that? I have no idea - but we need something and it's change.
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Guitarman700
post Oct 23 2008, 07:19 PM
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This TRULY is the only place on the internet where you can discuss politics for four pages and stay civil!


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Disturbed21
post Oct 23 2008, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (Guitarman700 @ Oct 23 2008, 02:19 PM) *
This TRULY is the only place on the internet where you can discuss politics for four pages and stay civil!


It's amazing how we can smile.gif . Now the question is how long can we? huh.gif


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Ctodd
post Oct 23 2008, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE
It's amazing how we can . Now the question is how long can we?


FOREVER!

seriously though

Political discussions (in general) between your everyday citizens of earth are good, but we are really not in position to criticize governments based on their past decisions.

I guess what I am saying is that I think it would be more productive if we had more "now" talk rather than more "then" talk



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FrankW
post Oct 23 2008, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (fatb0t @ Oct 23 2008, 07:13 PM) *
Considering the past 8 years, how could we not afford a change? Something needs to change, we certainly cannot keep going this way. If you're a conservative, please explain to me how it is that the US dollar - the once unversial currency - the currency that everyone compared their national currency has lost NEARLY HALF OF ITS VALUE? How can you explain our exponential growth in US debt? How can you explain to me the unaccountability of the Republican administration in terms of misleading the public : telling us that saddam has WMDs, having the public believe Iraq had ties to Al Quieda? I mean, can we REALLY afford to have another 4 years (probably 8) of that?
Am I to say Obama won't do that? I have no idea - but we need something and it's change.


The last eight years, the last eight years. That's the Obama mantra at the moment. Did you consider that the democrats held the majority in both the senate and congress for the last two years? Or that the 700 billion dollar bailout was due in large part to the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac under the watchful eyes of Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, two democrats who assured us that all was well?

As I have said, both sides of the aisle are at fault for our problems. It's not about being conservative or liberal, it's about being American. This partisanship bickering is getting the country nowhere.

By the way man, Hussein did have WMDs. He used them on his own people. Regardless, I'm not convinced that we should have gone to Iraq. Hussein would not have been able to use any weapons of mass destruction on us anyway, he didn't/doesn't have the technology. He may have attempted to do something stupid with Israel, but not us. So, no, we should not be there. But, we are now, and we must remain there until there is no power vacuum for Iran to move into. Otherwise, we will have to go back yet again.

Republican, democrat...it doesn't matter to me what somebody is. It's about ideology. Change for changes' sake is not always the right answer. Obamas' idea of change will hurt us, I'm telling you. His idealistic view of "spreading the wealth" will mean taking money from small businesses to give to a large portion of the population that doesn't even pay taxes! That means loss of jobs. You might want to give your money away, but not me.

Besides, Obamas' "change" slogan has been used before. It's going to take somebody far more qualified than Obama to exact change from a democratic majority...are you kidding?

Our system of government is one of the best. Yet, it has faults. When terms of office are open ended, greedy people run for that office. Most of our politicians are bought and paid for at some level, either ideologically or materially. It's our job to weed out the trash, and get rid of it. The only way is to research a particular politicians' history. I have with Obama, and he ain't cutting it.

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Niko Fran
post Oct 23 2008, 08:08 PM
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The invasion of middle eastern countries dindt start in 2001 or in 2003, europeans and americans have tried to pull their way of life over the heads of people all over the middle east for many, many years. Though I do NOT side with any teorrorist group at all, I can understand why someone can strap a bomb-belt around their waste. When people try to take your culture away from you, you will become more radical to protect it. That is what is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq at the moment. War cant be won with bullets, that will just breed more hate. If nothing change, this war will last generations. A child in Afghanistans parents, grand parents and brother had been killed by an american bomb as they thought there were terrorists in the house. I would not be suprised if he grew up to be a "terrorist".
I read in the news that a moske had been built in a german city and that their had been mas-demonstrations against it, they felt that the muslims were "invading and destroying their culture." But thats whats been going on for decades in many countries outside Europa and USA.
Regarding the Iraq war, I'm not saying that Saddam Hussein was a good man - not at all! He comitted genicide and did many wrong things, so thumbs up for the americans for removeing him really. Free speech is very important, its impossible to to build a state that can evolve without it, you need both "right wing radicals" and "left wing lunatics"...

Anyway, I'm not american so some people might say that this is not of my buisness, but I really hope that Obama wins! Fox News is a joke, the debates are just five conservatives standing around a table all saying how bad that Obama is, that he has "questionable relationships with terrorists" and so on.
Lastly, I think Obama would be a much better president than McCain. Obama have been traveling the world as a child and do not fear it as Palin do. He understands cultures which McCain and Palin would rather see bombed.

And by the way, someone said something about Palin fighting corruption... They should look at the facts, woulnd't call her the one to fight that!

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fatb0t
post Oct 23 2008, 08:15 PM
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......and with that said - back to experimenting with pedal tones in E minor =)
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FrankW
post Oct 23 2008, 08:21 PM
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I'm tired of typing, guys. I enjoyed the discussion. I learned as much as I think I know. There's alot of thoughtful people here, and I appreciate it. I changed my mind anyway, I'm voting for Eric Johnson for president. Muris, if you're running for some type of office, I'll vote for you too. It's guitar time for me again...
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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 23 2008, 11:17 PM
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Obama, Obama, Obama, Obama biggrin.gif. He is one person that will actually try and be peaceful without having Rambo in office. Who'd you choose to run a country. Obama or Rambo (McCain). I don't think Obama is even that great but compared to Rambo is great. What is funniest is that in a country that is supposed to be so great and about freedom of speech they have so many different parties and nobody gets a voice apart from major 2. biggrin.gif


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JVM
post Oct 24 2008, 12:26 AM
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Just some thoughts I'd like to throw out..

Obama has more experience than Abe Lincoln did when he was elected president, off the top of my head.

Our current crises is not "the democrat's fault". Things do not happen so quickly as to have a change in congress massively affect our world economic status in a couple of very short years. It was many years in the making. By this logic, the entirety of the national deficit is directly due to G.W.'s incompetence (when that is really not the case, but I'm not sayin' he's a a great president tongue.gif), Bill Clinton and his democrats are directly responsible for our massive economic growth in the 90's, and aliens have impregnated our apple pie (okay, I pulled that one out of my you know where). Etc.

There is more to consider than just the president and congress. For example, four of our current Supreme Court justices have been appointed by the Bush empire, not to mention the other conservatives we have on the bench. Also, as evidenced by our multicultural community at GMC, the US might benefit from having some friends, to say the least.

I'm a moderate myself, registered independent, by the way.

This post has been edited by JVM: Oct 24 2008, 12:28 AM


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Ajmurrell
post Oct 24 2008, 01:02 AM
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I don't really want to get involved in this, because I'll simply admit - I don't know nearly enough about any of this to form a non-biased, educated and relevant opinion. I do however think that people should also think carefully about what they say, before they say it. In relation to the above reasons for why I don't. If that makes sense smile.gif

But then again, its GOOD that people respond with PASSION and feel strongly about these things. Even if its not agreeable with everyone.

I guess its all a matter of balance between the two.


Here's a question: Does anybody else end up having an arguement with themselves when talking about these kind of things? I start to think one thing - then immediately come up with a contradiction. Then think of something new and the pattern repeats.

Maybe I should quit the nicotine and caffine! biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Ajmurrell: Oct 24 2008, 01:03 AM


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Oct 24 2008, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (Ajmurrell @ Oct 24 2008, 01:02 AM) *
Maybe I should quit the nicotine and caffine! biggrin.gif

Don't be daft laugh.gif

I'm only messing. I don't smoke or drink coffee.

I just read a story on yahoo that said Palin and spent all the Republican party fund on new clothes. laugh.gif Please tell me it is true. tongue.gif That is laughable. You can always trust the news smile.gif


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Ajmurrell
post Oct 24 2008, 02:49 AM
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The BBC reports that she's spent $150,000 on her "makeover" since being elected as a VP candidate.

I'd point out that they give no indication to how much other candidates have spent on similar things, so it's sort of statistical garbage in reality.

To me and you, thats a whole lot of money! Which is pricisely why its a media covered story. In the scheme of expendiature for presidential candidates are concerned, I've no idea if thats a large sum or not.

Also to add, the McCain campaign's finance has raised just under $316 million while Obama's campaign has faised over $620 million.

(All sources from the BBC)

Not trying to make any point, just trying to show a bigger picture smile.gif

This post has been edited by Ajmurrell: Oct 24 2008, 02:49 AM


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FrankW
post Oct 24 2008, 03:54 AM
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What was conveniently left out is that the clothes do not belong to Sarah Palin. She gets to use them for three days, and then they are given to charity.

What's with the poisonous attitudes toward this woman anyway? If everybody got their facts straight, she would be viewed in a better light. Some of you don't know what you're talking about. It looks like alot of your information comes from far left websites that distort the truth.

The US is the most powerful nation on the planet because we are a democratic, capitalistic society that promotes competition which brings about excellence, because we are rewarded for it. To turn into a "spread the wealth" socialistic state would be to turn the US into another mediocre, irrelevant country. Sorry guys, that ain't gonna happen.

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mjsteps
post Oct 24 2008, 10:14 AM
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To me it us simple. Look at history and look where the USA is going? To me a two party system has to go. The electoral college has to go. I will say it again, the framers of our constition believed in a government for the people and by the people. The revolutionary war was in some real sense fought over an increase of about 3% tax on tea, sugar and molasses. We talk about change look at how far we have come?

We live in a totaly different world whereby we are all connected and affected when anything happens across the globe. Thus the states can not afford to "do business" as usual.

The power of our goverment does not rest in the hands of one man. We have a CONGRESS and A senate and this is suppose to bring a balance of power to the system. This is what will change after this election. The implications are mind boggling.

As for me sit back, grab some popcorn and watch the show. And as always look for humor.
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botoxfox
post Oct 24 2008, 05:41 PM
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QUOTE (Eat-Sleep-andJam @ Oct 23 2008, 03:18 AM) *
" Its not that liberals are ignorant, its just everything they say is wrong" - Reagan

[attachment=10730:Reagan_d...ster_PNG.png]


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fatb0t
post Oct 24 2008, 08:23 PM
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What a hilarious map...

Anyways, America was founded on the two party system for a reason. It creates tension! It purposely puts people at odds with each other so no one can really seize power. Lately things seemed to have been corrupted and that's where I take issue.
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