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> Obama Or Mccain (vote Now)
Obama or McCain?
Who do you choose?
Obama [ 115 ] ** [89.84%]
McCain [ 13 ] ** [10.16%]
Total Votes: 128
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inertia
post Nov 4 2008, 03:54 PM
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Pretty much agree with your points, I like Kucinich more than Paul though...
QUOTE (Noangels @ Nov 1 2008, 03:54 AM) *
Cant vote,I think Ron Paul would have been the one for me!

Obama and Mccain are an illusion in choice as are most goverments that fool the people into thinking that every 4 years or so they have a choice in how their country is run.There not the ones who make policies,you have to follow the money trail to see who is moudling this planet into increasing their families vast wealth at the expense of us normal people.

We are nothing but cattle to be milked of our money,and be slaves to this system from birth to death(and taxed beyond death!)

Lets get rid of all of them! tongue.gif

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Noangels
post Nov 4 2008, 03:58 PM
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Cheers mate,lets hope more people open thier eyes to this illusion of voting for the main parties!I bet the string pullers are vastly amused at how long they have been getting away with it!


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Jesse
post Nov 4 2008, 04:18 PM
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I'm not american, but hell, I'd vote for the democrates! Still sad for obama that his granny died


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fkalich
post Nov 4 2008, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (Noangels @ Nov 4 2008, 09:58 AM) *
Cheers mate,lets hope more people open thier eyes to this illusion of voting for the main parties!I bet the string pullers are vastly amused at how long they have been getting away with it!


said this before. generally that is the case. this time the differences are pretty vast. for one thing a zillion federal judges have been delaying retirement until a liberal got in, so a liberal judge would replace him. Those jobs are for life.

I believe that Obama is without question the best for the future, slam dunk. However if all Americans really knew what he intended, they would not vote for him.

Just as in 1940 they would not have reelected FDR if they knew that he realized that we needed to get in and stop Hitler, and was going to do so. He told them the opposite in the election.

Obama is pretty radical. Which is a good thing in my book. He can't go to fast, we have checks and balances, a house of representatives that gets elected every two years particularly. Clinton pushed his luck early and had to alter course because he lost the house in the mid term. But I expect an 8 year plan here, and an intelligent and well thought out 8 year plan.
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OrganisedConfusi...
post Nov 4 2008, 04:22 PM
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I heard he may ban fire arms as well smile.gif

Which I don't think initially is a good idea but over a long span is needed I think.

This post has been edited by OrganisedConfusion: Nov 4 2008, 04:23 PM


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MickeM
post Nov 4 2008, 04:22 PM
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QUOTE (Noangels @ Nov 4 2008, 03:34 PM) *
I would bore them to death with my guitar playing cool.gif Couldnt say any more or I would be on the M15/CIA hitlist

biggrin.gif If you play so bad people drop dead I can't see how you could make a hitlist laugh.gif


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Jesse
post Nov 4 2008, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Nov 4 2008, 04:20 PM) *
said this before. generally that is the case. this time the differences are pretty vast. for one thing a zillion federal judges have been delaying retirement until a liberal got in, so a liberal judge would replace him. Those jobs are for life.

I believe that Obama is without question the best for the future, slam dunk. However if all Americans really knew what he intended, they would not vote for him.

Just as in 1940 they would not have reelected FDR if they knew that he realized that we needed to get in and stop Hitler, and was going to do so. He told them the opposite in the election.

Obama is pretty radical. Which is a good thing in my book. He can't go to fast, we have checks and balances, a house of representatives that gets elected every two years particularly. Clinton pushed his luck early and had to alter course because he lost the house in the mid term. But I expect an 8 year plan here, and an intelligent and well thought out 8 year plan.

What's he intending?


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fkalich
post Nov 4 2008, 06:14 PM
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QUOTE (Jesse @ Nov 4 2008, 10:23 AM) *
What's he intending?


Well, joining the rest of the civilized world on health care for instance. Currently we have a terrible system, pricing is set by the parties involved to screw the public. Most people have health coverage as part of their compensation from their employer. I expect this will be transformed to a comporation tax that will support a general system that covers everybody. And the Walmarts of the world and other that don't play for their employees now, will pay into it also.

Considering that the US pays 1 1/2 to 2 times as much for health care per person as anywhere in Europe, this will actually save corporations who are paying now money.

You will see people who make a lot of money paying a greater share of taxes.

Also expect that the US will abandon the "go it alone" policy on military matters.

I am not so critical of the past as others. But we have passed the post WWII era, and now need to do things differently, we can't get those times back anymore than we can our dead grandfathers.

Also, I expect fewer totally stupid advisers. The problem with Bush was not that he was evil, but poorly advised. Obama has smarter people advising him.

Picking Palin shows how stupid the Republicans have become, if you need more evidence.
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jer
post Nov 4 2008, 06:23 PM
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It seems to me that I have as much choice in who my leader is as I do in what meals are available on an airplane.

Oh wait, I do get to choose between turkey and roast beef... And I get the one I pick.

The electoral college picks my leader for me.....

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Andrew Cockburn
post Nov 4 2008, 06:33 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Nov 4 2008, 12:14 PM) *
Well, joining the rest of the civilized world on health care for instance. Currently we have a terrible system, pricing is set by the parties involved to screw the public. Most people have health coverage as part of their compensation from their employer. I expect this will be transformed to a comporation tax that will support a general system that covers everybody. And the Walmarts of the world and other that don't play for their employees now, will pay into it also.


Check out the UK for an example of how public health should NOT be done - its not a pannacea unless its done right. Not that I fully support the current US system, but one thing it does right is provide excellent service to its customers. The UK health service is spotty and inconsistent by contrast.

Prices should be controlled, access should be universal, but please don't make it entirely public, or you will be waiting in line a year for a bypass operation like they do in the UK ...


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fkalich
post Nov 4 2008, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Nov 4 2008, 12:23 PM) *
It seems to me that I have as much choice in who my leader is as I do in what meals are available on an airplane.

Oh wait, I do get to choose between turkey and roast beef... And I get the one I pick.

The electoral college picks my leader for me.....

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I don't know if you are serious, but if so, you are not thinking about this correctly.

The weight of your state is based on its population.

The reason this is a good system, is that if forces the candidates to do a grass roots campaign and visit the regular people. If you just elect by national vote, they tend to stick to the big cities, or TV.

I will never criticize our system of electing officials, or system of checks and balances. I think our system is unsurpassed, and would not like to see any changes.


edit: and your vote matters. None of the major candidates are in doubt where I live, the Democrat will win in the House, the Republicans in for the President and Senate. However you still vote, you participate. The world does not revolve around you, to an extent, you just do your duty.

Next time get registered.

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jer
post Nov 4 2008, 06:50 PM
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Oh I'm registered.

My point is that the public doesnt choose. We never have.

The electoral college does. They always have.

Its a safety net for government. To make sure the people don't do anything "stupid" I suppose.

They put 2 people in front of me and say "Pick". 2???? Thats it?

And then they dont even trust me to pick the right one. The higher ups in the states will place the votes that count.





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fkalich
post Nov 4 2008, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Nov 4 2008, 12:33 PM) *
Check out the UK for an example of how public health should NOT be done - its not a pannacea unless its done right. Not that I fully support the current US system, but one thing it does right is provide excellent service to its customers. The UK health service is spotty and inconsistent by contrast.

Prices should be controlled, access should be universal, but please don't make it entirely public, or you will be waiting in line a year for a bypass operation like they do in the UK ...


You are saying nationalize it but don't nationalize it. For all practical purposes, controlling prices means nationalization. It is going to happen, and yes, it won't be quite as good as people who have good coverage (such as you and I) have now. But there is no alternative. It will happen. There is no other solution that will solve the growing time bomb that is health coverage in this country. If Obama gets 60 Dems in the Senate, it will happen sooner.

When anyone wants to tell me how great our system is compared to others, I like to show them this chart, and have them explain why that is.

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QUOTE (jer @ Nov 4 2008, 12:50 PM) *
Oh I'm registered.

My point is that the public doesnt choose. We never have.

The electoral college does. They always have.

Its a safety net for government. To make sure the people don't do anything "stupid" I suppose.

They put 2 people in front of me and say "Pick". 2???? Thats it?

And then they dont even trust me to pick the right one. The higher ups in the states will place the votes that count.


Again, the justification for it is that it forces the candidates to visit the regular people, do a grass roots campaign, rather than sit in a tv studio.

Do you want all 300 million of us to go to congress and vote on things also? How will we fit into the building.
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jer
post Nov 4 2008, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE
Do you want all 300 million of us to go to congress and vote on things also? How will we fit into the building.


Nah... Do it via the net or by phone.

Isn't it interesting that we have a much more efficient system for choosing the winners for "Dancing With The Stars" or "American Idol" than we do our president?



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wrk
post Nov 4 2008, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Nov 4 2008, 07:03 PM) *
Isn't it interesting that we have a much more efficient system for choosing the winners for "Dancing With The Stars" or "American Idol" than we do our president?


you mean one person can call 1000 times and with that vote 1000 times? .... sorry, stupid joke of me laugh.gif





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post Nov 4 2008, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Nov 4 2008, 07:57 AM) *
Unfortunately the UK doesn't have much choice as USA seems to just string us along no matter what the UK populace may say. I detest soldiers fighting in Iraq in an illegal war. They deserve no respect. The more that die the better as they don't need to be there and shouldn't be there. I love the UK and love being here but we are just following USA in everything and I think we should think for ourselves on a few things.

Since when was the army supposed to be about aggression and attacking within other countries. It's called the Ministry of Defence and in what way is killing people in Iraq for no reason Defence. And then people say oh well the Iraqis are killing are people. But oh wait you are invading their country with weapons and you expect them just to accept it. If they came into our country and tried to do the same thing do you think we'd attack back. I think so.

But anyway I don't want to get into an argument as it drives me insane. I love being in the UK and I'd love for Obama to win as I think he'd more quickly and efficiently end this illegal war and make other great moves.

One things for certain whoever the president of the USA is has a huge impact on us in the UK.


I find this rather disturbing that you said soldiers deserve no respect...

While I can accept that a lot of people think this war has turned into... at the beginning it started as an initiative to rid the world of terrorism... and that is most certainly a noble cause to fight for.

on top of that... if you looking for somebody to hate... dont hate the soldiers. they have to do what they are told... maybe most of the soldiers didnt sign up to fight in a very controversial war... but dont hate them, if you are going to hate someone, hate the people that sent them to war.

and I leave you with this... picture a world without Islamic extremism (aka terrorism)...

It's a much better place isn't it???


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jer
post Nov 4 2008, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE
you mean one person can call 1000 times and with that vote 1000 times?


If the electoral college ends up choosing anyway, sure. Have at it. tongue.gif

Nah, you give each person a code of some type. Register online, get your code, like you do for so many other things. Using the system we do just seems so archaic....


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rokchik
post Nov 4 2008, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Nov 4 2008, 03:03 PM) *
Nah... Do it via the net or by phone.

Isn't it interesting that we have a much more efficient system for choosing the winners for "Dancing With The Stars" or "American Idol" than we do our president?


You have MORE people voting for "Dancing with the Stars" and "American Idol" then you do for the Leader of your country. But it's the same here in Canada. There is a greater value and interest put on entertainment then choosing who will lead and represent our countries.

I'm very interested in this election. I am not an American, but here in Canada what the US does greatly effects us due to the fact that we share a border. Actually I'd even go as far as saying that there are more Canadians paying attention to the US election right now then when we had our own election a few weeks ago... didn't anyone even know we had a federal election? I'm not a huge fan of either candidate, I would have gone with Hilary but that's me. However Obama strikes me as a guy who will invoke change, and for the better. Mc Cain has his good views and ideas but I think he lost some credit in taking on Palin as his running mate. She seems rather ill equipped to be VP, but Biden doesn't really scream confidence either. Either way I think it's going to be a lot closer then most think....

It will be an interesting evening to say the least.
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fkalich
post Nov 4 2008, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Nov 4 2008, 01:03 PM) *
Nah... Do it via the net or by phone.

Isn't it interesting that we have a much more efficient system for choosing the winners for "Dancing With The Stars" or "American Idol" than we do our president?



I don't want it to be as easy at going to the toilet. Seriously, if a person won't take just a bit of effort to vote, then what does that tell you about them? I personally am glad if the lazy asses of the world don't vote.

I am not directing this at you, just want to make sure that is clear. Just think a bit of effort should be part of the process, it eliminates the shiftless/lazy from the process, and I don't think that the shiftless/lazy ass segment of society is the one to direct it the best.
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post Nov 4 2008, 07:29 PM
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I chose obama becouse his politics is better a bit for the world, but also for the single american worker. Obama, or generaly the democratian politics, have verry alike politics of what we have in norway. And what people is living better than in norway? statisticly NOONE. and thats becouse you don't need insurance for health care,and EVERYONE have the right to have it. And the taxes is individual after each persons income, which i think is a GREAT idea, where the people who have super sized boats, pooorly may have to work a little more for their little super-sized boat, poor rich people...(irony, for those who wondered) and those who barely can't afford to pay their houses, maybe have a little more chanse not to become homeless, though we have a wide range of ..."parachutes"(only word to describe it). I don't know super-much about politics, but i know enough to say that i hope, for not only the americans, but the rest of the world too, that Obama wins.

someone from norway: please correct me if i'm wrong.


BTW: if MCCain wins, im glad HE was the winning candidate of the Republicans, becouse he is(what i've heard) much more radical than other republicans, and is opposed to the rest of his party. He Is verry much opposed of the bush administration, and the reason(again what i've heard) he took that super-conservative woman in leader(of something i don't remember, sorry laugh.gif) is to balance out the politics, to not lose the more concervative voters, but i think he still will make a bit change too, but still not as much, and/or positive as Obama, but its still a bit. (Most of this is based on what my teacher told me, so sorry if its absolutely wrong)

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