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> Music School, What did you gain?
lcsdds
post Nov 13 2008, 02:26 PM
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I notice alot of this instructors on this board went to some sort of university/school for music. I always wanted to go but my personal situation wouldn't allow it. I was just curious as to what those who did attend school feel that they gained that they couldn't have gained any other way.

Monte
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Jesse
post Nov 13 2008, 02:32 PM
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Hmm! I got 3 more years of high school bs then im going to music conservatory !!!!


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Pedja Simovic
post Nov 13 2008, 02:44 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Nov 13 2008, 02:26 PM) *
I notice alot of this instructors on this board went to some sort of university/school for music. I always wanted to go but my personal situation wouldn't allow it. I was just curious as to what those who did attend school feel that they gained that they couldn't have gained any other way.

Monte


Hi Monte,

This is great topic and you asked very good question that I keep being asked all the time.

First of all you need to think what does University or any College do that private lessons don't?

1) They give you organized program to follow
2) You get many different classes and projects
3) They help you to become overall musician
4) You get a certificate, a degree or diploma if you complete given course.

Now , is this really needed?

I think so. It definitely helps you find your way in music and guide you faster to focus and achieve results.
I am 25 years old now from recently. I have London Guitar Institute and Berklee college of music behind me. I also taught at Berklee college of music for 2 years at prestige Guitar week.
The private instructors can only teach you so much - unless they have done the same kind of system and know what they are doing.
Schools will help you get organized and learn a lot about music. Most importantly they will teach you what your weak points are and what are the steps that you need to do in order to eliminate them. They will also show you how to point out your strong points.

In life everything is system. If you really want to improve rapidly you need some sort of system and hard work. If you are talented, or very talented then you will reach your goals even faster.

Having said all of this, not all schools are like the ones I mentioned.
London and Berklee were great for me because I got great ratings and was allowed to pick my instructors by myself. That allowed me to have private instruction for 6 semesters with Mick Goodrick (teacher of Pat Metheny, John Scofield, Mike Stern , Wayne Krantz etc) and learn amazing things. Same thing in London - lessons with Shawn Baxter, Lee Hodgson , Iain Scott, Misha Nikolic... These are all great guys and when they see you are hungry for knowledge they all open up and give their best to help you achieve your goals.


Now after all this being said I would like to add that I like GMC a lot. The concept of the website and its fast growing base of students and instructor is leaning towards becoming something big. I can see this becoming online guitar university of a sort. Again there is more things that need to improve that I will do in my future lessons.
There is very few lessons on Composing , Ear Training, Harmony and Theory (Video lessons I mean - Andrew did a great job so far with his Theory board!) Recording, Counterpoint, Ensemble , Music History, Music analysis etc

My final point would be this :

- Write yourself a list of 3 types of goals : Short term (immediate goal) , Near future and Long term goal.
When you have done this, work as much as you can to achieve them. If you are goal oriented person than you will find everything (not only in Music but in life as well) within your reach.
- Next step is after you have your list , look for ways how to achieve that !

So its quite a simple concept but not a lot of people I know apply it unfortunately and I see them being stuck with their progress for long time.

Overall you are on the right place to learn about Guitar and music biggrin.gif

Hope this was useful for you - feel free to direct any questions about it smile.gif


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lcsdds
post Nov 13 2008, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Nov 13 2008, 02:44 PM) *
Hi Monte,

This is great topic and you asked very good question that I keep being asked all the time.

First of all you need to think what does University or any College do that private lessons don't?

1) They give you organized program to follow
2) You get many different classes and projects
3) They help you to become overall musician
4) You get a certificate, a degree or diploma if you complete given course.

Now , is this really needed?

I think so. It definitely helps you find your way in music and guide you faster to focus and achieve results.
I am 25 years old now from recently. I have London Guitar Institute and Berklee college of music behind me. I also taught at Berklee college of music for 2 years at prestige Guitar week.
The private instructors can only teach you so much - unless they have done the same kind of system and know what they are doing.
Schools will help you get organized and learn a lot about music. Most importantly they will teach you what your weak points are and what are the steps that you need to do in order to eliminate them. They will also show you how to point out your strong points.

In life everything is system. If you really want to improve rapidly you need some sort of system and hard work. If you are talented, or very talented then you will reach your goals even faster.

Having said all of this, not all schools are like the ones I mentioned.
London and Berklee were great for me because I got great ratings and was allowed to pick my instructors by myself. That allowed me to have private instruction for 6 semesters with Mick Goodrick (teacher of Pat Metheny, John Scofield, Mike Stern , Wayne Krantz etc) and learn amazing things. Same thing in London - lessons with Shawn Baxter, Lee Hodgson , Iain Scott, Misha Nikolic... These are all great guys and when they see you are hungry for knowledge they all open up and give their best to help you achieve your goals.


Now after all this being said I would like to add that I like GMC a lot. The concept of the website and its fast growing base of students and instructor is leaning towards becoming something big. I can see this becoming online guitar university of a sort. Again there is more things that need to improve that I will do in my future lessons.
There is very few lessons on Composing , Ear Training, Harmony and Theory (Video lessons I mean - Andrew did a great job so far with his Theory board!) Recording, Counterpoint, Ensemble , Music History, Music analysis etc

My final point would be this :

- Write yourself a list of 3 types of goals : Short term (immediate goal) , Near future and Long term goal.
When you have done this, work as much as you can to achieve them. If you are goal oriented person than you will find everything (not only in Music but in life as well) within your reach.
- Next step is after you have your list , look for ways how to achieve that !

So its quite a simple concept but not a lot of people I know apply it unfortunately and I see them being stuck with their progress for long time.

Overall you are on the right place to learn about Guitar and music biggrin.gif

Hope this was useful for you - feel free to direct any questions about it smile.gif


Great Reply Pedja!! I just wish I was in a position to be able to do what you have done. I will just have to do the best I can and GMC is the best I have found so far. So many world class players to interact with!!!

Monte
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Muris Varajic
post Nov 13 2008, 03:25 PM
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I attended Music High School and Music Academy for one year.
Problem with educational system here is that
focus is on classical music only,no jazz,rock,funk etc.
So I learned some basic theory,how to read notes
and I gain a lot from solfeggio,
solfeggio is probably the most useful class we have here
considering world's music today. smile.gif


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JVM
post Nov 13 2008, 03:28 PM
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I'm in a two year public college right now. Doing a paper on rising college tuition costs actually. I would assume, but I'm not entirely sure yet (will definitely investigate all kinds of schools for this paper) that music schools along with trade schools and such, are being hit just as hard as regular colleges. Average college tuition prices have risen 439% since 1982, if you can believe that. Thats much higher than the USA's inflation of economy, it's ridiculous actually.

So, not to discourage you, but you have to weigh the options. I wouldn't be at a two year school if I could afford to go to a four year school. Also keep in mind that a lot of music schools require FORMAL education, often two years or more, for prospective students.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage you guys. But when I graduated from high school, I wanted to attend a music school. As it turns out, it simply wasn't a good option. So to those wanting to attend, I can only say do your research and prepare for it, and be prepared to pay some high costs.

This post has been edited by JVM: Nov 13 2008, 03:29 PM


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lcsdds
post Nov 13 2008, 03:51 PM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Nov 13 2008, 03:28 PM) *
I'm in a two year public college right now. Doing a paper on rising college tuition costs actually. I would assume, but I'm not entirely sure yet (will definitely investigate all kinds of schools for this paper) that music schools along with trade schools and such, are being hit just as hard as regular colleges. Average college tuition prices have risen 439% since 1982, if you can believe that. Thats much higher than the USA's inflation of economy, it's ridiculous actually.

So, not to discourage you, but you have to weigh the options. I wouldn't be at a two year school if I could afford to go to a four year school. Also keep in mind that a lot of music schools require FORMAL education, often two years or more, for prospective students.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage you guys. But when I graduated from high school, I wanted to attend a music school. As it turns out, it simply wasn't a good option. So to those wanting to attend, I can only say do your research and prepare for it, and be prepared to pay some high costs.



JVM,
You make a good point about college costs!! I am a dentist and so I know all about expensive education. Back in he 80's most dentists/physicians would come out of school with maybe 30k in student debt. The average today is over 300k!!! Believe me, that is one heavy burden to bear. So I agree, you really have to decide if taking on that much debt for a degree in music is worth it. I have no idea what an average working musician makes but I read an article about a music major who got a masters or PHD in music to the tune of 160k in student debt, I am sure this is a VERY EXTREME example and not the norm!! They had to leave the country and basically hide because they couldn't afford to pay back the loans on what they made. Sad that education has become so expensive.
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David Wallimann
post Nov 13 2008, 03:53 PM
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I started to go to Music College in France, but quit after a few months. It was focusing too much on Music History which didn't interest me at the time. I just wanted to play!

Then I won 2 free tuitions to 2 music schools in France and that was great. But to be honest I didn't learn anything there that I couldn't learn on my own. The key is to learning is to have the passion. Then everything falls into place, such as discipline and patience. I think you can learn as much if not more without school. Talk to other musicians, search online, read books, you can learn everything without school I think. The only difference is the diploma you might get, and even that doesn't help that much.

However, there is one thing about music school that is worth it, you are in a situation where you are constantly surrounded by others who share the same passion. That is a great environment to grow as a musician...


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BMcG
post Nov 13 2008, 04:00 PM
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Hi Guys,

I graduated from a college jazz studies program last Spring, and it was great in a lot of ways, but you really need to know what you're looking for. The biggest thing to realize is that going to, and potentially graduating from, a music college will not necessarily make you a great player. The college does not do it, only YOU can do it. I've seen many, many people graduate from music college (especially guitar players for some reason), that have not put in the time, and don't play very well.

Having said that, the formal knowledge of music theory, ear training, history, arranging techniques, etc. are great tools and can open up many doors.

I think though, that the BIGGEST benefit of music school was being with other musicians, and performing in ensembles on a regular basis. Before going to school, I was like many of us spending countless hours in my bedroom practicing whenever I got a chance, frustrated that I had no one to play with. Playing with other people regularly is what music is all about. When playing with other people you learn things about music the you may not have ever know about. Things that you could never practice at home alone.

So, music school or no music school, make sure you're playing with others. Get over the "I'm going to get really good and then find people to play with" thing. I know, I had it for ages (and still have it sometimes). The truth is, you get "really good" much faster if you're playing music with people. And you'll have a hell of a lot more fun!

That's what it's about.

_Bryan
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Pedja Simovic
post Nov 13 2008, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (David Wallimann @ Nov 13 2008, 03:53 PM) *
The only difference is the diploma you might get, and even that doesn't help that much. However, there is one thing about music school that is worth it, you are in a situation where you are constantly surrounded by others who share the same passion. That is a great environment to grow as a musician...


I don't quite agree with you David on this one.

With Berklee degree you can find Teaching job anywhere in US and Europe , and I mean anywhere.

Again it comes down to what College or University you finished.

Berklee is top class for music thats why its worth so much and not anybody can enter and leave it with good results.

I agree that you need passion - like with everything in life if you want it to work.
But tell me this - with all the books in the world and material if you are not advanced player you will get lost !
You need somebody to show you some things.

Its great when you reach a point in your life where you can continue what you want in music on your own. But before doing that regardless of level you need some advice and guide for everything. Otherwise the progress is in question wink.gif

QUOTE (BMcG @ Nov 13 2008, 04:00 PM) *
Hi Guys,

I graduated from a college jazz studies program last Spring, and it was great in a lot of ways, but you really need to know what you're looking for. The biggest thing to realize is that going to, and potentially graduating from, a music college will not necessarily make you a great player. The college does not do it, only YOU can do it. I've seen many, many people graduate from music college (especially guitar players for some reason), that have not put in the time, and don't play very well.

Having said that, the formal knowledge of music theory, ear training, history, arranging techniques, etc. are great tools and can open up many doors.

I think though, that the BIGGEST benefit of music school was being with other musicians, and performing in ensembles on a regular basis. Before going to school, I was like many of us spending countless hours in my bedroom practicing whenever I got a chance, frustrated that I had no one to play with. Playing with other people regularly is what music is all about. When playing with other people you learn things about music the you may not have ever know about. Things that you could never practice at home alone.

So, music school or no music school, make sure you're playing with others. Get over the "I'm going to get really good and then find people to play with" thing. I know, I had it for ages (and still have it sometimes). The truth is, you get "really good" much faster if you're playing music with people. And you'll have a hell of a lot more fun!

That's what it's about.

_Bryan


Bryan this is great response.
I totally agree with you on this one. smile.gif

This post has been edited by Pedja Simovic: Nov 13 2008, 04:03 PM


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lcsdds
post Nov 13 2008, 04:24 PM
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I guess what really got me thinking about this was an interview I read with Emir Hot. He said that when he was going to school in the UK he was working like 5 jobs just to be able to live and that left him very little time to actually practice his instrument. I have no idea how Emir feels about his experience with the school he went to, maybe he could elaborate on it. I just wonder if he would of been better off staying put and pursuing his career in his native country. Although, I do remember him saying that he made alot of invaluable contacts while in school that really helped his career. I guess when you look at David's perspective and compare it to Pedja's perspective everybody has a different experience.
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Sami
post Nov 13 2008, 04:29 PM
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It also depends on what you go to music school for. I know personally i am planning to go to berklee(if i get in, the chances are pretty low :/) to major in music theraphy(but also double major in preformance). This way when i get out of music school i will have a set path career doing something i still love(helping people with my talents).


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Pedja Simovic
post Nov 13 2008, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Nov 13 2008, 04:24 PM) *
I guess what really got me thinking about this was an interview I read with Emir Hot. He said that when he was going to school in the UK he was working like 5 jobs just to be able to live and that left him very little time to actually practice his instrument. I have no idea how Emir feels about his experience with the school he went to, maybe he could elaborate on it. I just wonder if he would of been better off staying put and pursuing his career in his native country. Although, I do remember him saying that he made alot of invaluable contacts while in school that really helped his career. I guess when you look at David's perspective and compare it to Pedja's perspective everybody has a different experience.


I am sure Emir will give you his version of story.

We both went to same school in London. When Emir went there he heard about me words of praises from other instructors like Misha Nikolic, Iain Scott and Shawn Baxter. Thats the dot that connects me and Emir.

I can tell you about my experience in my native country regarding career pursing.

I have been on numerous festivals both as honor jury member and as performer. I was many times on national television,satelite as well as numerous local tv and radio stations. There have been shows about me as well as frequent interviews and call ups.
All this recognition doesn't help you out financially to make a decent living in Serbia.
Sure , a lot of people know about me and of me and this is great because I have people every day contact me from all over the Serbia supporting my career. Somebody contacts me for lessons somebody just wants to become friends. Its all cool with me. Again , career wise if you are musician who plays contemporary music (in my case Jazz/Rock/Blues/Fusion) Serbia is not the country that recognizes this nor has scene for this.
I am sure Emir will tell you the same for Bosnia.
The fact is, those are poor economic countries (whole ex Yugoslavia is like that) and peoples primary music is FOLK which is odd meters and Turkish sounding music (arabic call it whatever you want) which I can't listen to more then an hour otherwise I go crazy biggrin.gif
So if you are into that kind of career there is work for you here, if not you have to find alternative ways.

The way I do my work is private lessons, solo guitar performances , customized video lessons and from 13th of September anything GMC related smile.gif

Hope this brings the picture more clear for you smile.gif

P.S. I could work any music school in Serbia full time but the salaries are just too little to survive normally .

This post has been edited by Pedja Simovic: Nov 13 2008, 04:38 PM


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David Wallimann
post Nov 13 2008, 04:36 PM
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You are right about the diploma. It does depend of where you go, absolutely!!!
And you are right that reading books only won't help you that much if you don't have someone explain. That's what I meant by "talk to other musicians". :-)



QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Nov 13 2008, 10:03 AM) *
I don't quite agree with you David on this one.

With Berklee degree you can find Teaching job anywhere in US and Europe , and I mean anywhere.

Again it comes down to what College or University you finished.

Berklee is top class for music thats why its worth so much and not anybody can enter and leave it with good results.

I agree that you need passion - like with everything in life if you want it to work.
But tell me this - with all the books in the world and material if you are not advanced player you will get lost !
You need somebody to show you some things.

Its great when you reach a point in your life where you can continue what you want in music on your own. But before doing that regardless of level you need some advice and guide for everything. Otherwise the progress is in question wink.gif



Bryan this is great response.
I totally agree with you on this one. smile.gif



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Pedja Simovic
post Nov 13 2008, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (David Wallimann @ Nov 13 2008, 04:36 PM) *
You are right about the diploma. It does depend of where you go, absolutely!!!
And you are right that reading books only won't help you that much if you don't have someone explain. That's what I meant by "talk to other musicians". :-)


Aw great ! So we are on the same page then smile.gif

Make as many cool musician friends and you are all set for help and advices biggrin.gif


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Muris Varajic
post Nov 13 2008, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Nov 13 2008, 04:03 PM) *
But tell me this - with all the books in the world and material if you are not advanced player you will get lost !
You need somebody to show you some things.


Not if you're not reading too much.
I did everything by myself considering electric guitar and I never got lost.
Plus I had no internet at that time to speak more with musicians,
advance players,beginners,doesn't matter.
So it all comes to personal preference after all,
I'm 100% for music school or university
but also you can learn A LOT by yourself and be a great player,
there are many proofs out there. smile.gif


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Noangels
post Nov 13 2008, 05:22 PM
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I am pretty certain when I was there Misha was a student too,the name rings a bell!

If you can afford it,then its worth it-but you dont need to go these days with the net being so easily available to
learn from(take this site and others)If you want to teach full time then yes as mentioned above its going to open
all the doors for you.Also if you attend one of the 3 year courses and have digs in London you are in a prime location
to actualy join bands and get out there and play and make contacts that will help you

They didnt have the 3,2 year course when I went-So i could only have a year full time there and that was enough to teach me theory enough for me to pay better.I dont think my playing realy imrpoved in leaps and bounds but my style expanded slightly with the Jazz,Country,Blues lessons and thats a good foundation to work from

If you go it great fun:) but there can be backstabbing going on.Before my final live performance at a local pub(captain hook?cook?lol sounded like that)An unknown bass player came up to me and said are you Justin-So i replied yes and he told me a lot of the guitarists there wanted me to mess up badly in the exams!lol I didnt but after the song I never used brass picks again as the stage lights made my hands sweat and that pick wanted to meet the floor through the whole song!

These schools are good,but you can get good without them If you put in the hard work


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Jose Mena
post Nov 13 2008, 05:34 PM
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I went to a music conservatory as a kid, at the time I only played piano, and had no intention of learning to play the guitar. Music conservatory was all classical instruction, theory, music notation and stuff, but it didn't last long, only 3 years or so, by the time I picked up the guitar at age 12 was around the same time I stopped attending the music conservatory.

All I had learn there was some classical pieces in the piano, and music notation. I had no idea what a scale was, not even what a chord was, they never mentioned it in school, or I guess I was just a kid and didn't pay enough attention.

I asked my dad to pay for some private guitar lessons, and he payed for a month, no more, I learned a few songs some chords and that was it. The rest I learned it on my own, I managed to get photocopies of a theory book and learned about scales, modes, chord progressions, stuff that I had to read, and read again to understand. Of course if someone had explained to me it would have been much faster, but I had no one.

I always liked the idea of attending a music university, but when I mentioned to me father he totally disagreed, first he didn't believe that music should be one's career, and secondly it was too expensive, even in Ecuador it is insane, it is only for the rich. I wanted to go Berklee, but when I found out about the prices, I knew then there was no way in hell I was going to attend.

I am not against attending music school, as a matter of fact, if I would've had the money I would have certainly gone for it against my father's wishes.

But I think I've done ok on my own, I love playing and learning new stuff from books, online, and from jamming with others. What I love about this internet era, is that you can instantly hear and see what someone is explaining, many times I would take these theory books and try to do what it said, and sounded weird and didn't know how to apply it.

Online learning is becoming more and more popular, don't know if it will totally replace a classroom, but it is certainly a nice alternative.


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lcsdds
post Nov 13 2008, 06:02 PM
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I didn't even start playing guitar until I was 18. I have never been in a band and never even really played with other musicians!! I am a total bedroom wannabe laugh.gif I have learned everything on my own. I think I have done ok but one thing I really crave would be performing. I've done a few silly things, like playing in church, family reunions etc. and I really enjoyed it. I also wish I had somebody to collaborate with, I feel like I have some great ideas musically but nobody to show me how to take those ideas and turn them into songs. This is where I feel that a school would benefit me. I would especially love to learn how to record, mix etc. I think theory, technique, etc. can all be learned on your own, especially with sites like GMC etc. Alas, there is no way at this point that I could go to a school, too expensive and I am at a point in life where I have too many family/work obligations etc. I envy those of you who have been able to go and take advantage of it. I especially envy those of you who are able to actually play with other musicians. The only interaction I get with other musicians is on boards like this or posting vids on youtube


Monte
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Jesse
post Nov 13 2008, 06:27 PM
Post #20


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Joined: 5-July 08
From: Enschede/overijssel/Nederland
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sad.gif if you got a pod or video camera/both you can join a GMC virtual band!


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Don't just play it. Feel it!
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