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> Music School, What did you gain?
Alex87
post Nov 13 2008, 06:44 PM
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I've been taking private lessons in guitar for some time now. Apart from that I also have alot of training in : Note reading, ear training, percussion playing, piano, singing and theory.
And now I'm about to attend a final preparation class for attending Music Academy / Conservatory equal to the Berklee degree. I just hope I get in.


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FrankW
post Nov 13 2008, 07:00 PM
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I've always dreamt of going to the Musicians' Institute in Hollywood, California. It used to be called GIT, or Guitar Institute of Technology. What interested me about that place was the one year program, and the opportunity to be around nothing but guitar freaks for a year.

Also, that part of the country was full of the best players around, all gravitating to GIT to give seminars and hang out. I'm talking about many guitar heroes, like Steve Lukather, Eddie Van Halen, Larry Carlton, Allan Holdsworth, George Lynch, and many others. Can you imagine attending workshops given by these guys on practically a weekly basis?

Some of the most well known guitar monsters have attended GIT like Paul Gilbert and Brett Garsed. I would be in heaven in this environment.

It boils down to what you can afford. One year at this place would be expensive, but living in Hollywood for a year must be off the charts. When I win the lottery, I'm going, not until then...sigh...
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wrk
post Nov 13 2008, 07:07 PM
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Monte, i completely understand what you mean. I'm asking me some similar questions a lot lately. More in a reflective way, if i took the right or wrong decision back then.

All my youth i did nothing else as playing guitar and it was a clear thing for me that this will be my job later. I'm 36 now. Today there are so many sources available to learn from .. more or less for free. The internet give us today complete new opportunities, first for the years of learning and after to earn money with it. The speed how some members or others progress today is nearly scary. On the other hand, becoming a highly skilled player is not a big secret anymore. The standard is so high, that it's a must before even to think about to go pro as a musician. In a band situation it's maybe different, but this is another story and involves luck as well.

I guess i got scared a bit and decided to focus on something else for my professional life when i was 20-something. It turned out quite well and have no reasons to complain, but since i started again to play guitar 1.5 years ago, i feel something else, which i don't get from my job, even if i love it. It's a bit disturbing sometimes, but i still believe it was the good choice. The biggest problem for me today is to accept that some goals will be unreachable just by being realistic about availability of time.

A few years back, a traditional school would have been good and necessary for me. Today, i think i can structure practicing on my own .. of course thanks to the help of GMC or other sources.

Seeing your level of playing, you obviously do quite well on your own. To collaborate with someone is maybe a good next step for you.




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lcsdds
post Nov 13 2008, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Nov 13 2008, 07:07 PM) *
Monte, i completely understand what you mean. I'm asking me some similar questions a lot lately. More in a reflective way, if i took the right or wrong decision back then.

All my youth i did nothing else as playing guitar and it was a clear thing for me that this will be my job later. I'm 36 now. Today there are so many sources available to learn from .. more or less for free. The internet give us today complete new opportunities, first for the years of learning and after to earn money with it. The speed how some members or others progress today is nearly scary. On the other hand, becoming a highly skilled player is not a big secret anymore. The standard is so high, that it's a must before even to think about to go pro as a musician. In a band situation it's maybe different, but this is another story and involves luck as well.

I guess i got scared a bit and decided to focus on something else for my professional life when i was 20-something. It turned out quite well and have no reasons to complain, but since i started again to play guitar 1.5 years ago, i feel something else, which i don't get from my job, even if i love it. It's a bit disturbing sometimes, but i still believe it was the good choice. The biggest problem for me today is to accept that some goals will be unreachable just by being realistic about availability of time.

A few years back, a traditional school would have been good and necessary for me. Today, i think i can structure practicing on my own .. of course thanks to the help of GMC or other sources.

Seeing your level of playing, you obviously do quite well on your own. To collaborate with someone is maybe a good next step for you.



I have always wanted to be in a band. The older I get, I'm 38 now, the less I want to be in a band. It just isn't conducive to family life. I have to get up at like 3am now in order to be able to get a couple of hours of practice in daily. Luckily I worked a job for years that required me to be up that early and it isn't a big deal. I am like you now WRK, in that I know what I need to do as far as getting my chops together and learning to write songs. What I would really like to do is take a class on recording so I could at least get the basics down. Time doesn't allow me to do this. I almost hit the jackpot this year!!! My brother-in-law is a recording engineer and I almost got the opportunity to move to the same town as him. Unfortunately it didn't work out. The thing that is hardest for me is just not getting to interact with actual musicians who love music the way I do. Maybe someday I will get to actually play guitar with some actual people, but for now I am at least glad that I can come on this board and interact with a whole virtual community of guitar nuts like myself!!

Monte
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Pedja Simovic
post Nov 13 2008, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Nov 13 2008, 09:06 PM) *
I have always wanted to be in a band. The older I get, I'm 38 now, the less I want to be in a band. It just isn't conducive to family life. I have to get up at like 3am now in order to be able to get a couple of hours of practice in daily. Luckily I worked a job for years that required me to be up that early and it isn't a big deal. I am like you now WRK, in that I know what I need to do as far as getting my chops together and learning to write songs. What I would really like to do is take a class on recording so I could at least get the basics down. Time doesn't allow me to do this. I almost hit the jackpot this year!!! My brother-in-law is a recording engineer and I almost got the opportunity to move to the same town as him. Unfortunately it didn't work out. The thing that is hardest for me is just not getting to interact with actual musicians who love music the way I do. Maybe someday I will get to actually play guitar with some actual people, but for now I am at least glad that I can come on this board and interact with a whole virtual community of guitar nuts like myself!!

Monte


Monte I might do some recording tutorials here at GMC about Nuendo and using EZdrummer along with simple Bass VST.
Hope you can benefit from this ?


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lcsdds
post Nov 13 2008, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Nov 13 2008, 09:16 PM) *
Monte I might do some recording tutorials here at GMC about Nuendo and using EZdrummer along with simple Bass VST.
Hope you can benefit from this ?



I would LOVE that!!! I fantasize about making a CD just for my own enjoyment!! Maybe someday!!

Monte
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superize
post Nov 13 2008, 09:59 PM
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I am considering going to a music school next fall....But i am not sure yet


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JVM
post Nov 13 2008, 10:51 PM
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Great thread smile.gif Lots of good points made... I want to agree with those who say its COMPLETELY possible to make it without music school. GMC is a great alternative, to provide that guidance that Pedja mentioned. Also, again, I agree very much that playing with other musicians is key, and the 'wait til i'm good enough to play with other people' mentality is self-defeating. Go out and play! Jump in the water head first!


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Noangels
post Nov 13 2008, 10:51 PM
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QUOTE (FrankW @ Nov 13 2008, 06:00 PM) *
I've always dreamt of going to the Musicians' Institute in Hollywood, California. It used to be called GIT, or Guitar Institute of Technology. What interested me about that place was the one year program, and the opportunity to be around nothing but guitar freaks for a year.

Also, that part of the country was full of the best players around, all gravitating to GIT to give seminars and hang out. I'm talking about many guitar heroes, like Steve Lukather, Eddie Van Halen, Larry Carlton, Allan Holdsworth, George Lynch, and many others. Can you imagine attending workshops given by these guys on practically a weekly basis?

Some of the most well known guitar monsters have attended GIT like Paul Gilbert and Brett Garsed. I would be in heaven in this environment.

It boils down to what you can afford. One year at this place would be expensive, but living in Hollywood for a year must be off the charts. When I win the lottery, I'm going, not until then...sigh...


I love lynch,his Wicked Sensation album has some of the best rock guitar playing anywhere!I remember reading an interview with him in Guitar world and he said he was going to attend GIT to actualy take lessons himself!lol My fingers still hurt thinking about his gothic octive!

Brett Garsed has to be my favorite player at the moment(been that way for a couple of years!)If you havnt got his instrctional DVD then get it right away as its worth it just to see him play in one clip with another guitarist sat on two stools.Just breathtaking melodic and dynamic imrpovising,brett has that knack of playing those right notes and his rock roots in his playing make his guitar sing like no other!


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ItsMe
post Nov 13 2008, 11:00 PM
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Just go for it it seems to offer a lot of opportunities. My jazzer friends (no guitar players) build there careers on the connections they made at their university. By the way you can go to a University in Germany and study for more or less free (no rock guitar though, only jazz or classical).

just edited my post. Was too much talking. But you still find it as a quote in Pedjas reply

This post has been edited by ItsMe: Nov 13 2008, 11:20 PM


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Pedja Simovic
post Nov 13 2008, 11:18 PM
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QUOTE (ItsMe @ Nov 13 2008, 11:00 PM) *
I wanted to attend a musical university in my home country many years ago before I went for a PhD in natural science. I went to the test for Jazz and Pop studies which is a 4 to 5 year program. Quite long but we only pay a very small tuition in Germany. Actually at the time I applied it was still free (Universities are financed through tax money). It is a pretty prestigious place and a lot of European top jazz players studied there. Anyway I didn't really know if I should do it, because I didn't believe in my talent and abilities. At that time I was quite good but put down the guitar then for many years. I just started again with the help of GMC at the end of 07. So there I was. I had prepared myself and could do the theory stuff. Name scales written out in standard notation. Find the key of a jazz piece. Right and jazz blues progression in bminor. Name some complicated chords in treble and bass clef written in standard notation and so on. Then there was the practical test. Play an easy jazz tune sight reading wise. That worked too. I then had to improvise over the progression of Autumn leaves. Easy thing, my impro wasn't great but whatever, they later said it was good. The next thing was ear training. They played intervals on the piano and you had to name them. They played chords and you had to name them. The played scales but not in an order. They played the notes randomly and you had to name them. That was my problem. I could do the intervals and the chords. I knew what extensions the chord had but didn't know the root note. I didn't get the random scales at all. And the next part was even more embarrassing. Sing a easy piece with sight reading. I totally missed that one. I can't sing and I can't sing while reading the notes. The last part was to play an easy piano piece. I played some easy Mozart ( Alla turca). No probs here.
I didn't pass. I nearly made it and they said instrument wise everything was not super but good enough to make it. But my lack of ear and singing capability was a problem since I wasn't the most stunning player I should have done better there. They told me that I don't have a well developed ear which would it make hard for me being successfully as a musician. So I put down the guitar after that for 7 or 8 years or so. Today I know that I didn't really want it at that time because I did not believe in me. I thought I lacked the talent. I know now that hearing pitches is something you can actually learn. I didn't know that. Everybody including my Friends who are prof. musicians now, had the feeling that you can only make it when you are born with a at least relative pitch hearing.

The point is today I would be very happy if I would have tried harder and prepared myself better for the singing and hearing exams. I didn't really train for that and that was stupid. So if you really want to attend a music school you will find a way. Go to a country with no or low tuition and go to a state University if you can't pay for a private institute. There a good schools out there that are really affordable. Ok if it has to be the GIT or London GI or Berklee you need money. But find out what your goals are. There is always a way and if it means that you have to move to Germany or Switzerland or Italy or whatever. Follow your dream. I didn't do it because I didn't believe in myself and today I can't play anymore and don't have time for practicing. But it makes me sad. So go for it. I believe it's a good thing to go to a good school because of the opportunity to network. My jazzer friends (no guitar players) build there careers on the connections they made at their university.


This was very touching and emotional read for me.
Thank you very much for this.

I will record some ear training lessons which will help you to gain relative pitch.

I totally agree with your post - if you really want something you can make it happen no matter what your current situation is.

Thanks again .


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ItsMe
post Nov 13 2008, 11:27 PM
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Oh by the way I can do all this exams now. I still have problems when somebody plays a root note and then random notes out of a scale from that root. I can tell you right away whatever mode you play if you play the notes in sucsession (not the harmonic minor ones, never learned to hear them can only play two of them anyway). But not if you play them randomly. I can hear thirds fifth 7ths and 9th (funny because I can't here 2ths). No 4ths though.


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FrankW
post Nov 14 2008, 01:44 AM
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QUOTE (Noangels @ Nov 13 2008, 10:51 PM) *
I love lynch,his Wicked Sensation album has some of the best rock guitar playing anywhere!I remember reading an interview with him in Guitar world and he said he was going to attend GIT to actualy take lessons himself!lol My fingers still hurt thinking about his gothic octive!

Brett Garsed has to be my favorite player at the moment(been that way for a couple of years!)If you havnt got his instrctional DVD then get it right away as its worth it just to see him play in one clip with another guitarist sat on two stools.Just breathtaking melodic and dynamic imrpovising,brett has that knack of playing those right notes and his rock roots in his playing make his guitar sing like no other!



I also love George Lynch. He is a dramatic player who has spanned the gap between rock and shred. And he tries so hard to improve, even these days.

Believe it or not, Brett Garsed was a penpal of mine years ago when he was featured in Mike Varneys' Spotlight column in Guitar Player magazine. He actually sent me a tape of some of his stuff! This was back when Brett was 21 years old, and still living in Austrailia. He was a very humble, friendly guy who even back then reminded me of Holdsworth...a true monster.

I most definitely will get Bretts' DVD. I'm hoping to learn to play some of that cool, outside rock fusion that I love. smile.gif
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Déjà vu
post Nov 14 2008, 03:44 AM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Nov 13 2008, 06:25 AM) *
I attended Music High School and Music Academy for one year.
Problem with educational system here is that
focus is on classical music only,no jazz,rock,funk etc.
So I learned some basic theory,how to read notes
and I gain a lot from solfeggio,
solfeggio is probably the most useful class we have here
considering world's music today. smile.gif


Muris, what exactly is "solfeggio"? I looked up a youtube video, and I am EXTREMELY curious smile.gif . What is taught in Solfeggio, and how has it benefited you (ear training, creativity, inspiration)?
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Emir Hot
post Nov 14 2008, 04:37 AM
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QUOTE (Déjà vu @ Nov 14 2008, 02:44 AM) *
Muris, what exactly is "solfeggio"? I looked up a youtube video, and I am EXTREMELY curious smile.gif . What is taught in Solfeggio, and how has it benefited you (ear training, creativity, inspiration)?


Hope Muris wouldn't mind if I answer. It's like a theory class. You have many rhythm and melodic dictations, ear training and chord recognition. You sing notes you've never seen before, clap ryhtmic exercises with every possible note groups, sight read whatever they give you, etc... In classical schools they call that subject Solfeggio.


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Emir Hot
post Nov 14 2008, 05:03 AM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Nov 13 2008, 03:24 PM) *
I guess what really got me thinking about this was an interview I read with Emir Hot. He said that when he was going to school in the UK he was working like 5 jobs just to be able to live and that left him very little time to actually practice his instrument. I have no idea how Emir feels about his experience with the school he went to, maybe he could elaborate on it. I just wonder if he would of been better off staying put and pursuing his career in his native country. Although, I do remember him saying that he made alot of invaluable contacts while in school that really helped his career. I guess when you look at David's perspective and compare it to Pedja's perspective everybody has a different experience.


Yes it was really hard for me. All alone in this big city but I made it. Pedja told you pretty much the reasons I left my country. No living of rock and roll there smile.gif It was also killing me that we don't have freedom to travel. This was the main reason I left my country. I had a very successful band in Bosnia but we couldn't make any serious European tour because we need visa for almost every country in the world. This university in London was the safe way for me to move abroad. I just decided, packed my bag and left without any proper plan. Very risky move. Muris actually said good bye at the Sarajevo airport at 6:00am on 24 of April 2004 smile.gif My visa was a student visa so I had to pass my exams to be able to stay in the country. I had to apply for a new visa every year but they would only extend it if I finished a year of university. And now the living expenses in London are something crazy. We pay for the air. I had to have 4 or more jobs at the time to cover everything. One year of Guitar Institute for me costed 5 times more expensive than anyone else because Bosnia is not a part of EU. It used to be £5.500 per year ($11.000 at that time in dollars). One month of living here as a student is aproximately £700 if you rent 1 small room and don't go crazy with money. So I had to make nearly £15.000 a year in order to make it. That amount of money per year is actually nothing serious in this country. In Bosnia I could have bought 3 bedroom flat for that but this is London. No way in hell I could find time to practice guitar. Luckily I had pretty good knowledge when I came so I could always pass exam. Not always with a good mark but I passed them all. I can't say I learned nothing. There are some very cool things to learn. If you really focus on your studies and practice everyday I think it's a great thing. I met so many useful people that helped later when I got signed for "Lion Music". Those were not students. I always wanted to meet people from the top that do things with one phone call. It was the only serious chance. Somehow I was lucky. It could have also been different. Now I am happily maried, working as a full time graphic/web designer. When I have spare time I work for GMC smile.gif There are some preojects on the side going on but still no proper living of music. The only thing I can do now is to find a job as a teacher because I have a BA degree. I am constantly trying to avoid that. All my teachers are guitar beasts and none of them have an album recorded because they are busy as hell with their teaching job. I don't wanna finish my career like that. But of course if I need a job I can always have it with this paper. For me this university was worth only because of that, I am never going to be hungry at least.


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lcsdds
post Nov 14 2008, 06:22 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Nov 14 2008, 05:03 AM) *
Yes it was really hard for me. All alone in this big city but I made it. Pedja told you pretty much the reasons I left my country. No living of rock and roll there smile.gif It was also killing me that we don't have freedom to travel. This was the main reason I left my country. I had a very successful band in Bosnia but we couldn't make any serious European tour because we need visa for almost every country in the world. This university in London was the safe way for me to move abroad. I just decided, packed my bag and left without any proper plan. Very risky move. Muris actually said good bye at the Sarajevo airport at 6:00am on 24 of April 2004 smile.gif My visa was a student visa so I had to pass my exams to be able to stay in the country. I had to apply for a new visa every year but they would only extend it if I finished a year of university. And now the living expenses in London are something crazy. We pay for the air. I had to have 4 or more jobs at the time to cover everything. One year of Guitar Institute for me costed 5 times more expensive than anyone else because Bosnia is not a part of EU. It used to be £5.500 per year ($11.000 at that time in dollars). One month of living here as a student is aproximately £700 if you rent 1 small room and don't go crazy with money. So I had to make nearly £15.000 a year in order to make it. That amount of money per year is actually nothing serious in this country. In Bosnia I could have bought 3 bedroom flat for that but this is London. No way in hell I could find time to practice guitar. Luckily I had pretty good knowledge when I came so I could always pass exam. Not always with a good mark but I passed them all. I can't say I learned nothing. There are some very cool things to learn. If you really focus on your studies and practice everyday I think it's a great thing. I met so many useful people that helped later when I got signed for "Lion Music". Those were not students. I always wanted to meet people from the top that do things with one phone call. It was the only serious chance. Somehow I was lucky. It could have also been different. Now I am happily maried, working as a full time graphic/web designer. When I have spare time I work for GMC smile.gif There are some preojects on the side going on but still no proper living of music. The only thing I can do now is to find a job as a teacher because I have a BA degree. I am constantly trying to avoid that. All my teachers are guitar beasts and none of them have an album recorded because they are busy as hell with their teaching job. I don't wanna finish my career like that. But of course if I need a job I can always have it with this paper. For me this university was worth only because of that, I am never going to be hungry at least.



I would love to be like you Emir, have a good full time job but the guitar skills to be able to do the things you do on the instrument. I have a great career/job, but since I didn't start playing until I was 18 I missed all of those years when you can live off of Mom and Dad and spend countless hours playing guitar. Kids that are taking up guitar today have no idea how lucky they are to be able to live in the internet age where they can interact with world class players like yourself or Muris or any of the instructors here on GMC. The kind of information they have access to today is unbelievable. I hope all you teenagers recognize what an oppotunity you have if you truly want to accomplish something on the guitar. Work hard when you have somebody else to take care of you because when you move out you most likely will never have that opportunity again. If you don't make decisions about life when you are young, life will make them for you when you are older!!

Monte
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Emir Hot
post Nov 14 2008, 06:45 AM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Nov 14 2008, 05:22 AM) *
I would love to be like you Emir, have a good full time job but the guitar skills to be able to do the things you do on the instrument. I have a great career/job, but since I didn't start playing until I was 18 I missed all of those years when you can live off of Mom and Dad and spend countless hours playing guitar. Kids that are taking up guitar today have no idea how lucky they are to be able to live in the internet age where they can interact with world class players like yourself or Muris or any of the instructors here on GMC. The kind of information they have access to today is unbelievable. I hope all you teenagers recognize what an oppotunity you have if you truly want to accomplish something on the guitar. Work hard when you have somebody else to take care of you because when you move out you most likely will never have that opportunity again. If you don't make decisions about life when you are young, life will make them for you when you are older!!

Monte


Oh man this is all 100% true. When I was between 12 and 18 years old, I used to practice 12 hours a day. At that time we had no clue what internet is. If somebody in my city had some new music or some new song transciptions at that time, we would all copy those tapes and papers in million copies ang go home to practice. We were happy like for Christmas if some more advanced player could show us something. No way we could dream about meeting some famous stars. When internet became very popular it changed everything. You sit at home and browse millions of things you need, all from one single place. I am now in my warm bed typing on my laptop and can't believe how we managed to learn stuff before when I look back and remember. If I had this what I have now, and had no living costs as you mentioned, I think I would have made my career long ago. I am still happy I managed to make quite a lot but as the life is moving on things are getting more difficult. So great advice from you to everybody : If you don't make decisions about life when you are young, life will make them for you when you are older!!


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Check out my <a href="https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/instructor/Emir-Hot" target="_blank">Instructor profile</a>

www.emirhot.com
www.myspace.com/emirhotguitar
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lcsdds
post Nov 14 2008, 06:58 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Nov 14 2008, 06:45 AM) *
Oh man this is all 100% true. When I was between 12 and 18 years old, I used to practice 12 hours a day. At that time we had no clue what internet is. If somebody in my city had some new music or some new song transciptions at that time, we would all copy those tapes and papers in million copies ang go home to practice. We were happy like for Christmas if some more advanced player could show us something. No way we could dream about meeting some famous stars. When internet became very popular it changed everything. You sit at home and browse millions of things you need, all from one single place. I am now in my warm bed typing on my laptop and can't believe how we managed to learn stuff before when I look back and remember. If I had this what I have now, and had no living costs as you mentioned, I think I would have made my career long ago. I am still happy I managed to make quite a lot but as the life is moving on things are getting more difficult. So great advice from you to everybody : If you don't make decisions about life when you are young, life will make them for you when you are older!!


I remember in the 80's when I first started playing, the only real transcriptions that were available were in guitar magazines, and those came out once a month. Now you can get almost any transcription off the web for free!! If I wanted to know how a certain lick was played all you could do was basically listen to it and do the best you can. Now if I have a question about a technique all I have to do is get on my laptop, post a message on the forum and I have the equivalent of Vai, Satch, EVH etc. answering me. It's unbelievable how quickly people can progress today. I am lucky to get 2 hours a day to practice now, and that only happens if I get up early while everybody is sleeping. Once everyone is awake there are just too many responsibilities that need attended to in order to survive. Thanks to Emir, Muris, Ivan, Pedja and all the other AWESOME instructors here at GMC who make it possible for bedroom guitar heroes like myself be able to find some joy in music, you guys really make a difference in alot of peoples lives whether you realize it or not!!!

Monte
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Noangels
post Nov 14 2008, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE (FrankW @ Nov 14 2008, 12:44 AM) *
I also love George Lynch. He is a dramatic player who has spanned the gap between rock and shred. And he tries so hard to improve, even these days.

Believe it or not, Brett Garsed was a penpal of mine years ago when he was featured in Mike Varneys' Spotlight column in Guitar Player magazine. He actually sent me a tape of some of his stuff! This was back when Brett was 21 years old, and still living in Austrailia. He was a very humble, friendly guy who even back then reminded me of Holdsworth...a true monster.

I most definitely will get Bretts' DVD. I'm hoping to learn to play some of that cool, outside rock fusion that I love. smile.gif

Yeahh Bretts so damm humble its inspiring,and I have had a few email exchanges with him.He even posts the dvds and cds you buy off him himself!As you can see by the postal order and he signs it:)

Those demos he sent you must have been the same ones he had on his site many years ago-had that low fi tape deck quality to them and his playing was more cromatic than his outragous chops are now!still very impressive to listen to and see how far he has gone on from those ideas.Shame he still hasnt got them on his site,I think he was told they sounded a little bit amature to what he does now so he dropped them:(
Yeahh get his DVD,I think I might well watch it again tonight with a glass of red and the guitar on my lap:)


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Ibanez geo and a line 6 spider
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