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> Music School, What did you gain?
Ognjen Protic
post Nov 14 2008, 12:52 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Nov 13 2008, 04:25 PM) *
I attended Music High School and Music Academy for one year.
Problem with educational system here is that
focus is on classical music only,no jazz,rock,funk etc.
So I learned some basic theory,how to read notes
and I gain a lot from solfeggio,
solfeggio is probably the most useful class we have here
considering world's music today. smile.gif



Same for me! cool.gif


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Nemanja Filipovi...
post Nov 14 2008, 01:40 PM
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I finished music high school(singing and flute).Well,when I look it know,the most usable thing that I haw from school is playing piano.smile.gif
Harmony,Music Theory,Solfeggio are all great things,but again,playing piano is the most useful thing I gain from music school.


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Pedja Simovic
post Nov 14 2008, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Nov 13 2008, 04:52 PM) *
Not if you're not reading too much.
I did everything by myself considering electric guitar and I never got lost.
Plus I had no internet at that time to speak more with musicians,
advance players,beginners,doesn't matter.
So it all comes to personal preference after all,
I'm 100% for music school or university
but also you can learn A LOT by yourself and be a great player,
there are many proofs out there. smile.gif


Muris nobody questioned your knowledge here.

I agree that you can learn things on your own. I am doing that for the last two years - discovering new concepts, preparing materials for books, discovering new secrets etc.
But to do this you have to go trough a lot.
You went trough a lot. Playing a lot and learning everything there is. You are also "ear" type player. That helps a lot in the whole progress as well. Theory and harmony are then just EXTRA tool for you to apply it and use it.

My point is you have talent, you are determined , hard working and you love what you do. Thats a winning situation for anybody doing anything in any field not just music.
So it does not amaze me that you have success in your music career at all. Its a natural progress how things feel in the right place for those who wanted it.

I think your example is not RULE but rather EXCEPTION.

You could probably name me houndreds guitar players who you consider to be successful who are self taught. I won't argue with you on that. But I could name you people like John Williams, Alf Clausen, Alan Silvestre and others who are educated musician and bring the best music there is today in the film industry . True emotions from picture/movie being transfered to musical language.
There isn't anything more valuable then that in my opinion wink.gif


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Jose Mena
post Nov 14 2008, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Nov 13 2008, 11:03 PM) *
Yes it was really hard for me. All alone in this big city but I made it. Pedja told you pretty much the reasons I left my country. No living of rock and roll there smile.gif It was also killing me that we don't have freedom to travel. This was the main reason I left my country. I had a very successful band in Bosnia but we couldn't make any serious European tour because we need visa for almost every country in the world. This university in London was the safe way for me to move abroad. I just decided, packed my bag and left without any proper plan. Very risky move. Muris actually said good bye at the Sarajevo airport at 6:00am on 24 of April 2004 smile.gif My visa was a student visa so I had to pass my exams to be able to stay in the country. I had to apply for a new visa every year but they would only extend it if I finished a year of university. And now the living expenses in London are something crazy. We pay for the air. I had to have 4 or more jobs at the time to cover everything. One year of Guitar Institute for me costed 5 times more expensive than anyone else because Bosnia is not a part of EU. It used to be £5.500 per year ($11.000 at that time in dollars). One month of living here as a student is aproximately £700 if you rent 1 small room and don't go crazy with money. So I had to make nearly £15.000 a year in order to make it. That amount of money per year is actually nothing serious in this country. In Bosnia I could have bought 3 bedroom flat for that but this is London. No way in hell I could find time to practice guitar. Luckily I had pretty good knowledge when I came so I could always pass exam. Not always with a good mark but I passed them all. I can't say I learned nothing. There are some very cool things to learn. If you really focus on your studies and practice everyday I think it's a great thing. I met so many useful people that helped later when I got signed for "Lion Music". Those were not students. I always wanted to meet people from the top that do things with one phone call. It was the only serious chance. Somehow I was lucky. It could have also been different. Now I am happily maried, working as a full time graphic/web designer. When I have spare time I work for GMC smile.gif There are some preojects on the side going on but still no proper living of music. The only thing I can do now is to find a job as a teacher because I have a BA degree. I am constantly trying to avoid that. All my teachers are guitar beasts and none of them have an album recorded because they are busy as hell with their teaching job. I don't wanna finish my career like that. But of course if I need a job I can always have it with this paper. For me this university was worth only because of that, I am never going to be hungry at least.

Wow, I wish I would've had the drive to do something like this.


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Nemanja Filipovi...
post Nov 14 2008, 04:35 PM
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I think this story has two sides..I think that schools are good,and that there is a difference if you go to school or not,but not the outcome it self.Great line in Will Hunting,"you pay a 150,000 $,but you can get the same books in national library 1,50 $".
Every thing is individual.
If you want to learn,nothing can stop you.And now things are more easier hawing the internet around.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Nov 14 2008, 05:00 PM
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You're definitely right Nemanja. In general, current aducational system is under a lot of pressure atm. It is simply not enough for present, let alone future generation. We need more efficient schools, multimedia classes, distance learning, technology is there, but schools remain the same. Some schools do have a good degree of technology infrastructure but that is far from enough. ALL school should have strong IT infrastructure, and working together as one big educational organizational system for more efficient knowledge transfer among people.

Major reforms of the current system are needed, specially music schools. I think online communities like GMC are on a good way to become the part of that system, but not old style schools, that are slowly dying because of their inflexibility and inability to quickly adjust to world changes that are soon about to take place.


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Nemanja Filipovi...
post Nov 14 2008, 05:16 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Nov 14 2008, 05:00 PM) *
You're definitely right Nemanja. In general, current aducational system is under a lot of pressure atm. It is simply not enough for present, let alone future generation. We need more efficient schools, multimedia classes, distance learning, technology is there, but schools remain the same. Some schools do have a good degree of technology infrastructure but that is far from enough. ALL school should have strong IT infrastructure, and working together as one big educational organizational system for more efficient knowledge transfer among people.

Major reforms of the current system are needed, specially music schools. I think online communities like GMC are on a good way to become the part of that system, but not old style schools, that are slowly dying because of their inflexibility and inability to quickly adjust to world changes that are soon about to take place.

I agree 100 %,but there is a down side to this story,if every thing becomes online(schools),kids will not haw a reason to go out side.This is the good side of going in schools.Interaction,social placement,in plain words,finding your self and in modern society is crucial.Because,best thing from that time was,falling in love,feeling sad,feeling happy...etc.

I think people need to come up with best way to combine technology(that is coming fast) and bluntly sad,life.


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berko
post Nov 14 2008, 05:30 PM
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I've read all these comments written here and I must say it was a great experience to get some insight into professional's opinion, so thanks for that.

I can agree with the last posts here, MANY musical schools and universities are simply getting crushed due to their inflexibility, to their old concepts of teaching and especially to the lack of infrastructure.

I've never attended music school (yet) but other than not having e.g regular ear training, systematic solfeggio tution or musician friends around you all the time, in the era of Internet everything is possible especially with the most popular instrument of today: electric guitar.

Pedja is really self-conscious about every positive aspect of a musical college. I would really like to humbly ask whether this is ony because with a Berklee certificate you can easily find job as a professional musican (and that's because the degree is from Berklee itself - and Pedja surely works as a full time musician) or are there any serious reasons as well which would definitely determine your career without such degree? I'm not counting here the musician friends you can jam with all the time and other stuff like wonderful teachers that show you dimensions of an instrument only they are aware of.

And I think it is a different matter to start a career with a band, if you have LOADS of luck to become popular.


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Pedja Simovic
post Nov 14 2008, 06:26 PM
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QUOTE (berko @ Nov 14 2008, 05:30 PM) *
Pedja is really self-conscious about every positive aspect of a musical college. I would really like to humbly ask whether this is ony because with a Berklee certificate you can easily find job as a professional musican (and that's because the degree is from Berklee itself - and Pedja surely works as a full time musician) or are there any serious reasons as well which would definitely determine your career without such degree? I'm not counting here the musician friends you can jam with all the time and other stuff like wonderful teachers that show you dimensions of an instrument only they are aware of.

And I think it is a different matter to start a career with a band, if you have LOADS of luck to become popular.


Hi berko,

I didn't get the second part of the question quite right.

For the first part here is the answer

Berklee is the best music college in the world because it has tradition , its contemporary school and it has and always has had highest success rate of its graduates in the music industry today. So basically who is who in music industry most of people come trough or from Berklee. Thats what keeps and makes Berklee so important. That is the reason why with a paper from such institution you can find job anywhere in the music industry all over the world.
I have million examples to give you for this. From my friends who finished MP&E (music production and engenering) who got jobs in best music studios in LA New York Boston and all across the world , to my personal example where every school I applied to for work as being Berklee graduate doors were wide open for me.
In August 2005 I started teaching in schools in USA - that includes Berklee as well. I was 22 then and didn't think my degree would mater that much , that I would have to prove my knowledge over and over to people , that I really deserve that work. Man , was I wrong! Every single job application I applied for as music instructor I got response within 24 hours with YES answer. And that was even without interview ! I got the same thing for Graz , Berlin and no need to mention Serbia smile.gif
So system in western countries is like that - its based on trust and belief in educational system. I already explained why is Berklee what it is today in music industry. Also it has best educators there which I forgot to mention in the beginning...


Do you really need Berklee ? NO.
If your goal is to form a band and play pub gigs or just for your friends - you don't need any school for that. 6 months to a year is all you really need to nail down the repertoire and rehearsals. But if you want to be complete musician, have strong ear training, arranging , knowledge of your instrument, theory and harmony knowledge, computer technology, ensemble knowledge, songwriting skills, pedagogy behind everything and basically become better all around musician and feel full filled about it , then YES you need Berklee.


I feel I should email my Berklee friends in Admissions and ask for some money for doing all this marketing for them hahah biggrin.gif

EDIT :

Just read couple of more times your question and I think I got it now smile.gif

If I may relate this to something that happened today.
I have this great friend who knows everything about house works. He works for the company tied to my building and basically sells apartments for that company and does all the work that needs to be done in a building.
Guy is in his 40s and he is such a character. Amazing guy.
Today he told me that in a month from now new company is taking over the work for whole block. They made a better offer and they have tradition in what they do etc so these guys have one month to pack up their stuff and leave.
This guy is going to end up on the street. He has only HIGH SCHOOL and 9 exams left for University to finish it (which he never did).
The point of this story is he might be the best out there for what he does but without a paper to back it up his choices in life are very limited! He learned this the hard way right now - imagine loosing job at age of 40 and having no alternative nor degree? Tough break for sure...

My point is whatever you want to do music related try to get educated in that area. Diploma, Degree , Certificate or just a short course is great way to add to your list of accomplishments and you never know when you will need it in your life.

Hope all this makes sense smile.gif

This post has been edited by Pedja Simovic: Nov 14 2008, 06:45 PM


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Emir Hot
post Nov 15 2008, 01:23 AM
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I agree with you Pedja on most of what you said. If you only replaced the word "Brerklee" with at least "recognised contemporary music university". I know many others where you can learn all that same stuff. Berklee is just the most popular, doesn't mean you will really be the best if you finish it. I know a couple of people that went there and their knowledge wasn't that much imressive. But I know some guys who have done ACM in Guilford, BIMM in Brighton and some from Germany . Their knowledge is top of the top. If you are looking for a job in any of these schools, you will have to pass quite strong audition, no matter what kind of paper you have. To conclude here, in my oppinion if you want to rock and have career in a band, then you don't need to spend that much money for music university. For teaching jobs and professional modern composing and arranging it's really a good choice if you go for it.


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Pedja Simovic
post Nov 15 2008, 02:04 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Nov 15 2008, 01:23 AM) *
I agree with you Pedja on most of what you said. If you only replaced the word "Brerklee" with at least "recognised contemporary music university". I know many others where you can learn all that same stuff. Berklee is just the most popular, doesn't mean you will really be the best if you finish it. I know a couple of people that went there and their knowledge wasn't that much imressive. But I know some guys who have done ACM in Guilford, BIMM in Brighton and some from Germany . Their knowledge is top of the top. If you are looking for a job in any of these schools, you will have to pass quite strong audition, no matter what kind of paper you have. To conclude here, in my oppinion if you want to rock and have career in a band, then you don't need to spend that much money for music university. For teaching jobs and professional modern composing and arranging it's really a good choice if you go for it.



If you want to play in a band you don't need any university really. Listen to records transcribe create your own style and start recording and touring. Eventually if your musical voice is appreciated by audience and you get "lucky" you will get signed for some label. Very simple.
I didn't choose this path because reality is totally different in today's music industry. People don't appreciate live performances and shows as they used to in 60's,70's, 80's even 90's to some point. Today is all about electronic music, about mtv vh1 and hot girls who look great and show their bodies.
For examples of this in real world I don't have to look to far back.
Last night I went with my friend to a gig in a local bar where rock and blues bands play. Place is very well none for that in the city so I expected some sort of audience there. Band was TRIO (guitar bass drums) and guitar player was singing also. They were playing Hendrix , SRV , ZZ Top, Garry Moore and artist along these lines. There were 20-25 people at most at this gig! It was 12 am or a bit later - gig lasted until 2 am - so I was there at prime time but very little interest in this. Across the street there is small club that plays electro music with DJ - there were more then 100 people.
You do the math in percentages and you get your reality right there.
In Boston same thing. Kurt Rosenwinkl, Dave Holland Big band or Billy Cobham play in Regatta Bar (exclusive bar in the HOTEL) while Britney Spears and alikes fill up the Bank of North hall (Celtics arena etc). Or Berklee has international music week or any clinic that you and me would appreciate and they don't sell out or fill their capacity of Berklee performance center...

Thats reality and I have accepted it and I blame myself as well as educational and social surroundings along with MEDIA
for allowing that to happen.

When I entered Berklee I didn't choose performance as my major. I choose Jazz Composition and Film Scoring. These are things are priceless and can't be learned everywhere. ACM and other schools like Guitar Institute are GOOD for GUITAR but not for these kind of things. And thats where Berklee sticks out - variety of programs and majors to suit everybody's needs.

I know a lot of Berklee people who graduated and were still average players at best. But when I think of it I know of a lot of guys and girls who are amazing today in the music industry and made it. So again like with everything in life coin has two sides depends which way you flip it smile.gif

I agree with your last sentence , pretty much sums up everything with maybe adding more things to that list not narrowing it down to 2 or 3 things smile.gif

This post has been edited by Pedja Simovic: Nov 15 2008, 02:19 AM


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Frank
post Nov 15 2008, 04:19 AM
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I had a friend from Bucharest Romania he was a teacher in at conservatory of Bucharest. He was on excellent piano player. He can play any music on the piano if you hand hem the notes. I ask hem why you don’t play in the band .His ensure was that I ‘m not good fore being on artist. Artist can play even with out notes. I never seen any body to play the piano like this guy and he is not a musician. I think to be a true artist you have to have a gift of music ,because if you don’t only school not going to make you a real artist in music.
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Muris Varajic
post Nov 15 2008, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE (Frank @ Nov 15 2008, 04:19 AM) *
I had a friend from Bucharest Romania he was a teacher in at conservatory of Bucharest. He was on excellent piano player. He can play any music on the piano if you hand hem the notes. I ask hem why you don’t play in the band .His ensure was that I ‘m not good fore being on artist. Artist can play even with out notes. I never seen any body to play the piano like this guy and he is not a musician. I think to be a true artist you have to have a gift of music ,because if you don’t only school not going to make you a real artist in music.


Just like that,I've seen many players of that kind coming out from Music Academy.
Those are reproductive players,think of them as concert masters.
But to be full artist,composing is the must,absolutely.
And improvising is some kind of composing as well,in a walk,
specially needed if you're playing in the bend.
Classical Music focused Academies will probably not give you
lot of insight on improvising etc,modern type of Academies will. smile.gif


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Roythebattousai
post Nov 17 2008, 02:10 AM
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I realize it's a long shot... but... I'd really like to go to Berklee or some other music school of similar value.

What exactly do you need to be able to do to get in?

I'm fairly sure I could come up with the money... but I'm certain they wouldn't let some intermediate nobody like myself in.


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