Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Best Way To Study Modes?
playaxeman
post Nov 27 2008, 10:03 PM
Post #1


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.440
Joined: 16-October 08
From: The Netherlands
Member No.: 6.091



Hello GMC

What is the best way to study and memorize modes?

Thx in advange


--------------------
Gear:

Guitars
Music Man Luke BFR , Music Man JP LTD 2008, Paul Reed Smith Santana III, Gibson Les Paul, Ovation Adamas, Ovation Ultra

Amps
Hughes & Kettner Switchblade 50 combo

Effects
Korg Pandora PX5D, Line 6 Pod XT Live

Recording
Guitar Rig 5, Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000, Magix MusicMaker2008

Visit My Website


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ramiro Delforte
post Nov 27 2008, 10:17 PM
Post #2


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 2.279
Joined: 4-August 08
From: Argentina, Buenos Aires
Member No.: 5.625



Modes in general or of all scales?

The thing about modes is that they were before the tonality and the major and minor scale

At the begining there were only Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian and Mixolydian

Those condensed into Major and Minor scales.

Dorian and Phrygian are minor modes because they have minor thirds but they are different from each other

Dorian has the major 6th and Phrygian has the flat 9 and the flat 13 (or 6th)

So Aeolian that would be like the condensation of those modes is more like Dorian (because doesn't have the flat 9th) but is not like Dorian because it has the minor 6th.

Lydian is a major mode because it has a major third from the root and it also has the raised 4th.

Mixolydian is like the major scale but it has the flat 7th.

So the Major scale is like mixolydian but it has major 7th like the lydian mode.

I think that's a good start for understanding modal theory.

Regarding all the modes of the other scales I can say to you that the theory tends to link all of them to those modes that I've mentioned.

If you have a scale like AEOLIAN bb7 it would be like the minor scale but with a diminished seventh. So pretty much is there if you already know the modes of the major scale.

I hope it was useful.

biggrin.gif


--------------------
Check out my Instructor Profile and Board

LIVE VIDEO CHATS EVERY MONDAY AROUND 22PM (GMC HOUR)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
playaxeman
post Nov 27 2008, 10:20 PM
Post #3


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.440
Joined: 16-October 08
From: The Netherlands
Member No.: 6.091



QUOTE (Ramiro Delforte @ Nov 27 2008, 10:17 PM) *
Modes in general or of all scales?

The thing about modes is that they were before the tonality and the major and minor scale

At the begining there were only Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian and Mixolydian

Those condensed into Major and Minor scales.

Dorian and Phrygian are minor modes because they have minor thirds but they are different from each other

Dorian has the major 6th and Phrygian has the flat 9 and the flat 13 (or 6th)

So Aeolian that would be like the condensation of those modes is more like Dorian (because doesn't have the flat 9th) but is not like Dorian because it has the minor 6th.

Lydian is a major mode because it has a major third from the root and it also has the raised 4th.

Mixolydian is like the major scale but it has the flat 7th.

So the Major scale is like mixolydian but it has major 7th like the lydian mode.

I think that's a good start for understanding modal theory.

Regarding all the modes of the other scales I can say to you that the theory tends to link all of them to those modes that I've mentioned.

If you have a scale like AEOLIAN bb7 it would be like the minor scale but with a diminished seventh. So pretty much is there if you already know the modes of the major scale.

I hope it was useful.

biggrin.gif

Hi Ramiro,

Thx for the update.

I mean the scales.



--------------------
Gear:

Guitars
Music Man Luke BFR , Music Man JP LTD 2008, Paul Reed Smith Santana III, Gibson Les Paul, Ovation Adamas, Ovation Ultra

Amps
Hughes & Kettner Switchblade 50 combo

Effects
Korg Pandora PX5D, Line 6 Pod XT Live

Recording
Guitar Rig 5, Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000, Magix MusicMaker2008

Visit My Website


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kjutte
post Nov 27 2008, 11:47 PM
Post #4


GMC:er
*

Group: Passive
Posts: 1.710
Joined: 17-July 07
From: Norway
Member No.: 2.337



I think it's alot easier to grasp the concept if you know the 7 major scale patterns.

Basically it's all about which scale degree you utilize over a given rootnote.

C D E F G A B C

This is the major scale. If you play this over a Cmaj chord, it will definitely sound Ionian (major)
However, if you play these notes over a Fmaj chord, it'll sound lydian.

This is because the 4th degree of major is lydian, and it's a major mode. Thus the Fmaj chord.
This example is by utilizing relative modes, so that you'll easier understand it.

However, in a real song context, the mode will be alot clearer if you change the rootnotes instead ofchanging the root chord, which is a much more subtle way of it.

Say you want to play in C lydian.

C D E F# G A B C (Lydian is the majorscale but with an augmented 4th (#4)).

Here you can play a Cmaj chord again, and you'll be in C lydian.
A Cmaj7 would be great too, which would be 1 3 5 7 of the scale.

We can read that to C E G B. Cmaj7.

Hope this helped you somehow.
Attached image(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sigma7
post Nov 27 2008, 11:53 PM
Post #5


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.310
Joined: 17-April 08
From: Rhode Island USA
Member No.: 4.917



QUOTE (kjutte @ Nov 27 2008, 05:47 PM) *
I think it's alot easier to grasp the concept if you know the 7 major scale patterns.

Basically it's all about which scale degree you utilize over a given rootnote.

C D E F G A B C

This is the major scale. If you play this over a Cmaj chord, it will definitely sound Ionian (major)
However, if you play these notes over a Fmaj chord, it'll sound lydian.

This is because the 4th degree of major is lydian, and it's a major mode. Thus the Fmaj chord.
This example is by utilizing relative modes, so that you'll easier understand it.

However, in a real song context, the mode will be alot clearer if you change the rootnotes instead ofchanging the root chord, which is a much more subtle way of it.

Say you want to play in C lydian.

C D E F# G A B C (Lydian is the majorscale but with an augmented 4th (#4)).

Here you can play a Cmaj chord again, and you'll be in C lydian.
A Cmaj7 would be great too, which would be 1 3 5 7 of the scale.

We can read that to C E G B. Cmaj7.

Hope this helped you somehow.


so if you played it over the Fmaj chord from C Major, the rootnote of the scale would be F thus making it F Lydian right?

This post has been edited by sigma7: Nov 27 2008, 11:53 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kjutte
post Nov 28 2008, 12:14 AM
Post #6


GMC:er
*

Group: Passive
Posts: 1.710
Joined: 17-July 07
From: Norway
Member No.: 2.337



QUOTE (sigma7 @ Nov 27 2008, 11:53 PM) *
so if you played it over the Fmaj chord from C Major, the rootnote of the scale would be F thus making it F Lydian right?


Yeah, that's correct. But modulating to a relative mode is very subtle.
Also, you in general want to add more than one chord, else the backing won't be too interesting.

Andrew has some nice recipes for this, so I won't mention it. However this is to get the true unique sound out of each mode. Experimenting is great to get more odd sounds, though it'll still keep its modal flavor.

Say Ionian. If you play Ionian to a Imaj VIIdim progression, that'd sound kinda weird.
A much more viable option would be Imaj IVmaj Vmaj, which are ionian lydian and mixolydian degrees of the scale, which are all major.

This will give a much more ionian sound.

Or say dorian for example. Dorian is a pretty funky scale, but it still has its minor touch.

A nice progression for dorian may be Imin IV7, which is dorian + mixolydian degrees of the scale.

Hope this makes sense.

Edit:
Once again, to understand the scale degree you may want a new quick look on this chart.

This post has been edited by kjutte: Nov 28 2008, 12:16 AM
Attached image(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kapto
post Nov 28 2008, 12:22 AM
Post #7


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 211
Joined: 9-December 07
From: Spain
Member No.: 3.479



This video helped me a lot when I had no clue at all about modes.
It's a fisrt mode step simple, clear and easy to understand by Vinnie Moore
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-DbaaI4wc


--------------------
"It's a long way to the top..."
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Nov 28 2008, 12:22 AM
Post #8


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



QUOTE (playaxeman @ Nov 27 2008, 10:03 PM) *
Hello GMC

What is the best way to study and memorize modes?

Thx in advange


Good way to learn scales is to locate distances between degrees,
where is half tone,where is whole tone etc.
Once you memorize that it'll be piece of cake to play
A major scale after G major scale per example,
just move the whole thing 2 frets up and do the same. smile.gif


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kjutte
post Nov 28 2008, 12:23 AM
Post #9


GMC:er
*

Group: Passive
Posts: 1.710
Joined: 17-July 07
From: Norway
Member No.: 2.337



QUOTE (Kapto @ Nov 28 2008, 12:22 AM) *
This video helped me a lot when I had no clue at all about modes.
It's a fisrt mode step simple, clear and easy to understand by Vinnie Moore
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5K-DbaaI4wc


I used it too! Problem with it is that he doesn't speak of chord relations in it, just rootnotes.
I don't think this is enough for a total newbie in the matter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ramiro Delforte
post Nov 28 2008, 12:30 AM
Post #10


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 2.279
Joined: 4-August 08
From: Argentina, Buenos Aires
Member No.: 5.625



playaxeman:

I mean the scales when I explained the difference between the modes.

If you learn the intervalic relations (like Muris said) and you learn the notes it would be easier and would help you to know better the notes on your instrument and give you a very good perspective when you'll have to play 9 different scales/modes over the same chord (like in the Dominant Series that I've made).


--------------------
Check out my Instructor Profile and Board

LIVE VIDEO CHATS EVERY MONDAY AROUND 22PM (GMC HOUR)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
playaxeman
post Nov 28 2008, 07:20 AM
Post #11


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.440
Joined: 16-October 08
From: The Netherlands
Member No.: 6.091



Dear all GMCérs

Thx for the help

GMC forum is great


--------------------
Gear:

Guitars
Music Man Luke BFR , Music Man JP LTD 2008, Paul Reed Smith Santana III, Gibson Les Paul, Ovation Adamas, Ovation Ultra

Amps
Hughes & Kettner Switchblade 50 combo

Effects
Korg Pandora PX5D, Line 6 Pod XT Live

Recording
Guitar Rig 5, Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000, Magix MusicMaker2008

Visit My Website


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bleak
post Nov 28 2008, 03:12 PM
Post #12


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 67
Joined: 27-November 08
Member No.: 6.312



This lesson has a very useful exercise showing all the modes going up the neck
Modal Madness

you can look at it in the individual box shapes of the modes in the diagrams below the video, but also notice that all the notes have no accidentals so it can be played as the whole Amin/Cmaj scale with the relevant harmony/chord progression behind it

if you think of a piano, then starting on a certain point of the Cmajor scale up to its octave and back again will give you a different mode if you only use the white notes

hope that was useful!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
playaxeman
post Nov 28 2008, 04:38 PM
Post #13


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.440
Joined: 16-October 08
From: The Netherlands
Member No.: 6.091



QUOTE (bleak @ Nov 28 2008, 03:12 PM) *
This lesson has a very useful exercise showing all the modes going up the neck
Modal Madness

you can look at it in the individual box shapes of the modes in the diagrams below the video, but also notice that all the notes have no accidentals so it can be played as the whole Amin/Cmaj scale with the relevant harmony/chord progression behind it

if you think of a piano, then starting on a certain point of the Cmajor scale up to its octave and back again will give you a different mode if you only use the white notes

hope that was useful!


Thx Bleak!!



--------------------
Gear:

Guitars
Music Man Luke BFR , Music Man JP LTD 2008, Paul Reed Smith Santana III, Gibson Les Paul, Ovation Adamas, Ovation Ultra

Amps
Hughes & Kettner Switchblade 50 combo

Effects
Korg Pandora PX5D, Line 6 Pod XT Live

Recording
Guitar Rig 5, Logitech QuickCam Pro 9000, Magix MusicMaker2008

Visit My Website


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vaialation1232
post Dec 23 2008, 01:41 PM
Post #14


Learning Rock Star
*

Group: Members
Posts: 138
Joined: 23-December 08
From: Bay Area, CA
Member No.: 6.436



QUOTE (playaxeman @ Nov 27 2008, 01:03 PM) *
Hello GMC

What is the best way to study and memorize modes?

Thx in advange



Heres a really cool lesson on the modes and how to study them courtesy of Joe Satriani (it might be more the second video than this one?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTQolymKmDA
Hope it helps
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd October 2017 - 08:12 PM