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> Satch/coldplay Pt. 2
Gus
post Dec 9 2008, 12:19 AM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 8 2008, 11:39 PM) *
Unfortunately Gus I don't understand what you are getting at with the comment. We have to express ourselves with words on GMC as we can't express ourselves any other way. It's a forum of words.

And if people can't voice their opinion then this site doesn't take into account people's opinion clearly but I know that isn't the case so you let me have my opinion and you have yours. Just because I am backing Coldplay in this doesn't mean I'm wrong. Please let me have a voice.

What I am trying to say is that when we write something we should take care not to sound offensive, and when I was fully reading the thread some of your posts sounded offensive (and apparently I was not the only to get that impression).
When someone is speaking something, we understand all the nuances of the intonation which clearly give us interpretation of what the person really wants to say. In written language it is not the same. Even with emotions wink.gif Therefore, one has to take more care with the choice of words, otherwise one will get bad interpretations.

I do let you have your opinion and I even agree with a part of it: I don't think that the timing chosen for suing Coldplay is a coincidence.

Actually, the fact that some of your posts sounded a little bit offensive to me, made it harder for me to understand what was exactly your thinking.


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kjutte
post Dec 9 2008, 12:27 AM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 8 2008, 11:39 PM) *
Unfortunately Gus I don't understand what you are getting at with the comment. We have to express ourselves with words on GMC as we can't express ourselves any other way. It's a forum of words.

And if people can't voice their opinion then this site doesn't take into account people's opinion clearly but I know that isn't the case so you let me have my opinion and you have yours. Just because I am backing Coldplay in this doesn't mean I'm wrong. Please let me have a voice.


I agree to this principle, but it's still stupid to rip off others. smile.gif
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J.E.
post Dec 9 2008, 12:27 AM
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This has gotten out of control, i mean a "healthy" discussion is alright about a certain subject but when you start attacking each other on a personal level i think it has gotten to far. Its a case between Joe Satriani and Coldplay i think they are grown enough to handle it on their own(though i must say i agree with Satch) You can hate me all for saying this, but that is just my side of it. smile.gif


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FrankW
post Dec 9 2008, 12:40 AM
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There was nothing phony or contrived about anything Satch said in those articles. Anybody that is a fan of Satch, has read his interviews, and has watched him on tv, or the computer, knows that the guy is a spiritual, emotional musician...and a nice guy. He takes his music seriously and, because of the laws of copyright protection, he owns his music. That's the way copyrights work.

What that means, for some people that just don't get it, is that this whole thing is not about money, but about the blatant ripoff of a melody close to the mans' heart, as he said in the articles. He owns that particular melody, in the context of how it was written and performed. How is that so hard to understand? It really does sound like Coldplay blatantly ripped him off.

If the courts find that this was the case, and I'll bet they will, he's entitled to exact punitive damages as a result. That's supposed to teach you not to steal other artists' music. How anyone can translate that into Satch being wrong or a bad guy is beyond me.
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Daniel Robinson
post Dec 9 2008, 01:11 AM
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I am really on the fence about this issue, i am not sure their was any intent or malice on Coldplay's part.

But at the same time how do you define intellectual property when it comes to music. Anyone here who has published or copyrighthed material in the past knows that you cannot copyright drum beats, or chord progressions, what you are really copyrighting is delivery and theme. Under this definition there is definately something to Joe Satriani's claim.

It is very possible that this was an oversight by Coldplay in that they sub-conciously picked it up without realization of where it came from and now that its known, and the damage done what can be done?

What i mean by the previous statements...as an example. I woke up a few days ago and felt inspiration for something, i started writing this riff and it was coming out really kewl....my brother came into the room and i showed him what i was working on..he was like...um thats this song by this artist he played it for me on some music channel thing he subscribes to. I was like WTF, he said he had been jamming to it earlier, i probably heard it while i was sleeping in the next room and had no idea it wasnt my idea.

Ultimately though Joe Satriani is in his right to try and take it to court, where it will lead who knows...all i know is that i can't say anyone is to blame at this point. There are just no facts aside from the songs themselves.

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Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Dec 9 2008, 01:26 AM
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Ahh Idk. Whos to say Coldplay did this as a total accident? Whos to say they knew all along what they were doing and wrote it to the exact melody of Satchs song ?

Enough arguing. Let the court decide....


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Dec 9 2008, 01:44 AM
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The more I listen to it the more and more I think it's rubbish but that's me. It is nothing alike. They don't do the guitar solo and his vocals only match up with some of the guitar notes. That isn't ripping somebody off and I'm sure they'll come to the right decision and throw it out but I think Coldplay will probably just slip him some money and tell him to shut up because Coldplay have the money to do it and they probably don't want to go to court for a decision that is based really on opinion rather than fact.

I also read that it has to be proved that they knew about the song by Satch and also that the song copies it which should be impossible to do so I hope it gets thrown out. We'll see smile.gif


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JVM
post Dec 9 2008, 01:48 AM
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QUOTE (FrankW @ Dec 8 2008, 06:40 PM) *
There was nothing phony or contrived about anything Satch said in those articles. Anybody that is a fan of Satch, has read his interviews, and has watched him on tv, or the computer, knows that the guy is a spiritual, emotional musician...and a nice guy. He takes his music seriously and, because of the laws of copyright protection, he owns his music. That's the way copyrights work.

What that means, for some people that just don't get it, is that this whole thing is not about money, but about the blatant ripoff of a melody close to the mans' heart, as he said in the articles. He owns that particular melody, in the context of how it was written and performed. How is that so hard to understand? It really does sound like Coldplay blatantly ripped him off.

If the courts find that this was the case, and I'll bet they will, he's entitled to exact punitive damages as a result. That's supposed to teach you not to steal other artists' music. How anyone can translate that into Satch being wrong or a bad guy is beyond me.


You have a way with words sir. The main thing that puts me squarely on Joe's side now is that he did attempt to talk to coldplay and settle this out of court, but they wouldn't talk to him. Knowing Joe, he probably would have accepted a simple recognition by the band and maybe songwriting credit on the single.


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Sami
post Dec 9 2008, 01:56 AM
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i would just like to throw in there that its most likely sacth's LABEL that incited this. They hound for cases like this, so be wary when you put ALL the blame on sacth.
*an unbias view from sami arefin*
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rokchik
post Dec 9 2008, 01:57 AM
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Reading through this topic I see that there is a rather lively debate flowing, which is great. However, in saying that, we do need to take care when writing, as it is easy for misunderstandings to take place and offense to be taken. GMC is a great place, and a good debate done in a friendly manner makes things very interesting, so please be respectful of everyone and their opinions regardless of if you agree or not.

One of the greatest assets to the GMC forum is the civility we show one another... please keep this in mind as it is getting kind of hot in here.

rokchik

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OrganisedConfusi...
post Dec 9 2008, 01:58 AM
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Coldplay have every right to ignore him if they think they are false claims. Basically saying take it to court or leave us alone. This case has got settled out of court to shut joe up or joe losing i am afraid. He has chosen a jury because he thinks he can con them with his whinging and crying. Its quite clear

This post has been edited by OrganisedConfusion: Dec 9 2008, 02:03 AM


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Andrew Cockburn
post Dec 9 2008, 02:39 AM
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That's quite enough for now - lets try this again in the morning when we have all calmed down ...


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Andrew Cockburn
post Dec 9 2008, 01:26 PM
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Ok, its open again - be nice!


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inertia
post Dec 9 2008, 06:28 PM
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Yeah but maybe Satch is an emotional guy, not all guys are super macho. Plus he spent 10 years on it, I can't imagine something I spent that long created was exploited by other people. I don't think saying he is hurt by it is wrong at all, maybe that's actually how he feels, nothing wrong with that.

QUOTE (Jose Mena @ Dec 8 2008, 04:22 PM) *
I heard it, the melody is the same, about that stuff that his life is upside down, and it really hurts, I think it is too much. I mean if it was me, I would be saying, yes I want the money, they are making millions of my song, and that is not right.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Satriani fan, but it seems that saying it really hurts and all that other stuff is more like trying to convince you that it is not about the money.

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Koopid
post Dec 11 2008, 07:02 AM
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I think it is stupid. I read somewhere that there is nothing left in music that hasnt been done already. All phrases and lines are done, all that is left is to put them together differently smile.gif

I don't know if that is true but I think it is quite near the truth. I am pretty sure that Coldplay didnt deliberatly steal Satch's song, why would they?? And if it wasnt deliberate they didnt commit a crime and shouldnt be sued.

If we have to worry about beeing sued because someone else did something similar that we never heard, how are we to make music? How do we know for sure that the songs we come up with are not inspired by something we heard on the radio or that it hasnt be done before? It can't be done! Not 100%. If we are not allowed to make music without listening to everything that has been done first then we can all stop right now.

If Satch really thinks Coldplay stole his music then I can understand his actions, but to be quite honest, I think that if he does think they stole it he is stupid. Coldplay are a big band, their songs get a lot of attention. There is no way in h*ll they would get away with stealing a song by one of the worlds most famous guitarists. They know this. They don't need to steal a song to get famous, they are already there.

If a new band steals a line or melody to get that song that makes them go from unknown to famous I can understand it and it would make sense that it was stolen. But for a band that doesnt need it?

I think Satch is off on this one. I am for protecting music but I am more for letting people be creative and not worry about it been done before. The songs are similar but not exactly the same..


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