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> Satch/coldplay Pt. 4, Coldplay speaks.
OrganisedConfusi...
post Dec 11 2008, 09:11 PM
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It would be bothering if they had taken it but the similarity between the two is hardly massive. The solo works over Coldplay's song. Big deal. They aren't playing that guitar solo and the vocals match up in places. Satch wont win and I know for sure as it just isn't copied. It's as simple as that


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Bogdan Radovic
post Dec 11 2008, 09:16 PM
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There are some strict rules what qualifies for a plagiarism..Ex. how many same notes in a row and everything...Satch must have talked to lawyers and prepared before going to court (and thinking he must win) since loosing such case can be very hard on him (financially and morally)...I'm really interested to see development of this case smile.gif


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Dec 11 2008, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Dec 11 2008, 08:16 PM) *
There are some strict rules what qualifies for a plagiarism..Ex. how many same notes in a row and everything...Satch must have talked to lawyers and prepared before going to court (and thinking he must win) since loosing such case can be very hard on him (financially and morally)...I'm really interested to see development of this case smile.gif

Well he has to proove beyond any doubt that Coldplay knew of his song well enough to copy it. I'd love to know how this is going to be done.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Dec 11 2008, 09:22 PM
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Well If his song was published officially before Coldplay's song (at it was) its enough of a proof that they knew/had access to the song..They could hear it on radio , internet...I think they can't prove that they never heard the song when these days music is available everywhere..


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Dec 11 2008, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Dec 11 2008, 08:22 PM) *
Well If his song was published officially before Coldplay's song (at it was) its enough of a proof that they knew/had access to the song..They could hear it on radio , internet...I think they can't prove that they never heard the song when these days music is available everywhere..

It's innocent till proven guilty though so its Satch that has to proove that Coldplay knew of the song. To say it's on radio isn't enough. It's not enough that Satch's song came out first. That proves nothing. It just shows that if they can prove that Coldplay knew of his song and that the copy is big enough then he has a case.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Dec 11 2008, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 11 2008, 09:24 PM) *
It's innocent till proven guilty though so its Satch that has to proove that Coldplay knew of the song. To say it's on radio isn't enough. It's not enough that Satch's song came out first. That proves nothing. It just shows that if they can prove that Coldplay knew of his song and that the copy is big enough then he has a case.


Of course its like that..But thing is , when you publish a song (on a album) you are automatically copyrighting the song in a institution for copyrights...So at that moment you protected the song for a lifetime.(its arrangment,composition,lyrics etc)..Now when Coldplay's song came out there was a Satch song in the "register" allready...Now the Satch will call up to the songs copyright date (to prove that he was the first that wrote the song) and then they should go into considering the similarities and everything...I don't think there will be a criteria of proving that they had listened to the Satch song (while song is worldwide available and could be heard in many places - maybe even in public toilets)...Stating "Not hearing the song" won't make anyone clear of guilty as with other laws you can't say you "didn't know" in your defense smile.gif

But generally I think this case is interesting since the Satch's song doesn't have vocals, so I am really interested how they are going to deal with it in court..

This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: Dec 11 2008, 09:40 PM


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opeth.db
post Dec 11 2008, 09:53 PM
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QUOTE (Iluha @ Dec 11 2008, 01:42 PM) *
Well than what do you say about that other band that claims Viva La Vida is a rip-off of their song? their song got singing and it sounds exactly the same...

I think this melody is what I call "Chord Driven" basicly it's the first thing that comes to you'r head when you hear the chord progression... but I can't say this with 100% confidence since my mind is biased after hearing all those songs ;/


How do you know I wasn't talking about the other band? smile.gif J/k

Very true and a valid point..


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midnight
post Dec 11 2008, 10:05 PM
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Satriani is going to get payed....it's pretty clear,imo.

Bad Coldplay...baaad Coldplay.
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Koopid
post Dec 11 2008, 10:08 PM
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If Satch wins this its pretty much the end of music making.

Thats my opinion, If we cant make music without listening to every song ever made to be sure we are not close to someone elses music without beeing sued by some whiner than we can all stop doing it.

Bad Satch...

//EDIT

I just want to add that I admire Satch musically, he is a genius and his music should be protected and respected. But in this case he is just a whiner. Coldplay sux

This post has been edited by Koopid: Dec 11 2008, 10:10 PM


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Bogdan Radovic
post Dec 11 2008, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE (Koopid @ Dec 11 2008, 10:08 PM) *
If Satch wins this its pretty much the end of music making.

Thats my opinion, If we cant make music without listening to every song ever made to be sure we are not close to someone elses music without beeing sued by some whiner than we can all stop doing it.

Bad Satch...

//EDIT

I just want to add that I admire Satch musically, he is a genius and his music should be protected and respected. But in this case he is just a whiner. Coldplay sux


Well I'm sure if you don't copy something intentionally you won't have problems..I think chances of you making exactly same song as someones else are very very slim and non existent...What is the probability of hitting the same progression + arrangement + melody (over an extended period of time in a song , over changes) in one song that is so similar to a famous song ? (I'm not talking here about Satch , rather generally)...I think the chances are really slim and pretty non existent...


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midnight
post Dec 11 2008, 11:22 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Dec 11 2008, 01:17 PM) *
Well I'm sure if you don't copy something intentionally you won't have problems..I think chances of you making exactly same song as someones else are very very slim and non existent...What is the probability of hitting the same progression + arrangement + melody (over an extended period of time in a song , over changes) in one song that is so similar to a famous song ? (I'm not talking here about Satch , rather generally)...I think the chances are really slim and pretty non existent...


Agreed. I'm actually kind of surprised that anyone sees it differently. This doesn't happen that often. Sure, we here recycled Zeppelin riffs and a zillion other bands progressions, riffs, whatever, but this is a copy job.
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Koopid
post Dec 12 2008, 07:30 AM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Dec 11 2008, 10:17 PM) *
Well I'm sure if you don't copy something intentionally you won't have problems..I think chances of you making exactly same song as someones else are very very slim and non existent...What is the probability of hitting the same progression + arrangement + melody (over an extended period of time in a song , over changes) in one song that is so similar to a famous song ? (I'm not talking here about Satch , rather generally)...I think the chances are really slim and pretty non existent...


I am not saying that it isnt similar, I am not saying that they didnt take it from Satch's song. I just don't think it is intentional.

My band has a song that we played for a long period of time and once we recorded it and I played it at home my wife comes in and says "Since when do you play covers?" I couldnt understand what she meant before she played my own CD with The Darkness. The intro was not 100% the same but so similar they could be the same song for the untrained ear. The tone, the tempo, the chordprogression... I know for a fact that when we wrote the song we did not have their song in mind so the "copy" was not intentional. But since I have played that CD so many times I find it quite possible that we unintentionally got the riff from that song. The rest of the song sounds nothing alike but still...

I just find it very hard to believe that a big band like Coldplay would deliberatly steal a song from a famous artist, simply because they should know they wouldnt get away with it. They don't need it..

Should we really have to spend enormous amounts of time with every song we write checking from where we got the riff/melody/chordprogression?


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Iluha
post Dec 12 2008, 11:07 AM
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QUOTE (Koopid @ Dec 12 2008, 08:30 AM) *
I just find it very hard to believe that a big band like Coldplay would deliberatly steal a song from a famous artist, simply because they should know they wouldnt get away with it. They don't need it..


Exactly, it just doesn't make sense fo Colplay to copy from someone as well known as Satch..

About the chord progression, it's a rather simple chord progression, it's only like 4 chords, and it repeats the ENTIRE song! and the melody resemblence, it only resembles HALF of the chorus in "If I Could Fly", the rest just sounds like it fits because Satch is improvising over the progression, and preety much everything you improvise over that progression will go along with the melody.

With that being said, Satriani is probably going to win, just like the guys that sued Gary Moore won, and they weren't anywhere close as famous as Satch is.

What I strongly disagree with, is that Coldplay recieved a grammy nomination for the song, It's a very simple structured song, with some extremely cheesy lyrics, and now it really showed me how bad the grammy's turned, they don't award music anymore, they award popularity only.



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post Dec 12 2008, 11:35 AM
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I believe still J.S has every right in the world to sue, but to mention "I felt like a dagger going through my heart" and stuff is seriously childish and immature. As well as the action taken by Coldplay like mocking him before the lawsuit and then calling him "one of the greatest guitarists" afterwards is hypocrisy.

May be it was best to leave things unsaid and done with just some youtube videos for us to judge and maybe laugh. It is really sad to see one grammy awarded artist and one of the greatest guitar players in the world hummiliate themselves in front of public and more seriously in front of their fans...


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post Dec 12 2008, 11:38 AM
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As far as I can see the only winners in this are the lawers tongue.gif



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post Dec 12 2008, 12:01 PM
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QUOTE (Crazyfret @ Dec 12 2008, 11:38 AM) *
As far as I can see the only winners in this are the lawers tongue.gif


















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Bali
post Dec 12 2008, 12:03 PM
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Do you guys also like to argue if robbery or stealing are ok in certain cases?

I mean, there are copyright laws that protects everybody's creations (yours as much as the most famous musician's), defining what is and what is not plagiarism.

If you break those laws (on purpose or not) you're liable, and can be sued. Period.

It's funny that this whole forum seems to agree on the non piracy policy, but then you flame someone who defends their rights about intelectual property.

Wouldn't you mind if I copy all your songs and release my own CD claiming they´re mine?

C'mon!!
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post Dec 12 2008, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (Bali @ Dec 12 2008, 11:03 AM) *
Do you guys also like to argue if robbery or stealing are ok in certain cases?

I mean, there are copyright laws that protects everybody's creations (yours as much as the most famous musician's), defining what is and what is not plagiarism.

If you break those laws (on purpose or not) you're liable, and can be sued. Period.

It's funny that this whole forum seems to agree on the non piracy policy, but then you flame someone who defends their rights about intelectual property.

Wouldn't you mind if I copy all your songs and release my own CD claiming they´re mine?

C'mon!!

I would mind then as you would have used all my songs and copied everything. In this case is wasnt copied and coldplay should win in my opinion. It isnt similar enough in my view. It doesnt break any copyright law as they arent that similar.


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Bali
post Dec 12 2008, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 12 2008, 08:11 AM) *
I would mind then as you would have used all my songs and copied everything. In this case is wasnt copied and coldplay should win in my opinion. It isnt similar enough in my view. It doesnt break any copyright law as they arent that similar.


Why, are you a lawyer? Are you acquainted with copyright laws?

Or do you think that legal stuff is built on personal opinions?

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OrganisedConfusi...
post Dec 12 2008, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE (Bali @ Dec 12 2008, 11:16 AM) *
Why, are you a lawyer? Are you acquainted with copyright laws?

Or do you think that legal stuff is built on personal opinions?

I do know a fair bit on how law works in the uk as i work as an engineer and everything i build is copyright so i need to know how to spot copies. So its based on personal opinion but an informed opinion. I cant see how satch can win as to me he has no case. The similarities are too small and you cant prove that coldplay knowingly stole it.


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