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> Satch/coldplay Pt. 4, Coldplay speaks.
Koopid
post Dec 12 2008, 12:40 PM
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QUOTE (Bali @ Dec 12 2008, 12:03 PM) *
Do you guys also like to argue if robbery or stealing are ok in certain cases?

I mean, there are copyright laws that protects everybody's creations (yours as much as the most famous musician's), defining what is and what is not plagiarism.

If you break those laws (on purpose or not) you're liable, and can be sued. Period.

It's funny that this whole forum seems to agree on the non piracy policy, but then you flame someone who defends their rights about intelectual property.

Wouldn't you mind if I copy all your songs and release my own CD claiming they´re mine?

C'mon!!


No, I don't think it is ok to steal in certain cases. I just don't agree with this being theft. Comparing it to copying all songs and releasing them on a CD is irrelevant.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Dec 12 2008, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (Koopid @ Dec 12 2008, 07:30 AM) *
I am not saying that it isnt similar, I am not saying that they didnt take it from Satch's song. I just don't think it is intentional.

My band has a song that we played for a long period of time and once we recorded it and I played it at home my wife comes in and says "Since when do you play covers?" I couldnt understand what she meant before she played my own CD with The Darkness. The intro was not 100% the same but so similar they could be the same song for the untrained ear. The tone, the tempo, the chordprogression... I know for a fact that when we wrote the song we did not have their song in mind so the "copy" was not intentional. But since I have played that CD so many times I find it quite possible that we unintentionally got the riff from that song. The rest of the song sounds nothing alike but still...

I just find it very hard to believe that a big band like Coldplay would deliberatly steal a song from a famous artist, simply because they should know they wouldnt get away with it. They don't need it..

Should we really have to spend enormous amounts of time with every song we write checking from where we got the riff/melody/chordprogression?


I also find it hard to believe that Coldplay did steal the song intentionally...but I also find it hard to believe that it is a pure coincidence because of all the variables that need to settle in, in order to be plagiarism.So I don't know what to think really..I don't think its a clear case (as is with Garry Moore case) so we'll have fun seeing the results of the court case..

Regarding your song, as you said its just the intro in case and its not 100% same...I'm sure no one would even have grounds to file a suit (there are rules how much of the song need to be same/similar)...There are songs that sound similar and will always will be like that , but there is a clear border I think when things get too similar and need to be taken to court...

Regarding composing, I believe if you don't intentionally copy something you will be clear..If you compose a song and think of a WOW part and you believe in it (don't know it from some famous song) you're OK..It never occurred in my songwriting to check out songs to see if there is one completely same out there smile.gif I wrote an original piece (at least in my mind) so I'm satisfied with it...Of course I have sometimes hit some things "that were done in other songs" but I instantly discarded those parts and tried to make more original ones...


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Patrik Jezierski
post Dec 12 2008, 01:08 PM
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Satriani is so going to win this case!
Coldplay can never proove that they haven't heard If i could fly. The chord progression wont make Satch win this case because chord progressions doesn't apply when talking about plagiate. But the tempo and melody combined with the chord-progression is going to **** Coldplay up!
I had a teacher when I went to the university who played in a pretty famous swedish group. They got a lawsuit where they got accused for plagiate. The other party claimed that my teachers bands song was ripped of from theirs. And trust me this band who accused my teacher wasn't even known, they wrote a song for a soccer club back in the 70s, and the melody in that song was inspired by old swedish folk-music, and so was the song made by my teachers band. But the simularitys where to many so they lost the case. If they could loose against an unknown "band" imagine what's going to happen to Coldplay!

This post has been edited by Patrik Jezierski: Dec 12 2008, 01:10 PM


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Koopid
post Dec 12 2008, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE (Patrik Jezierski @ Dec 12 2008, 01:08 PM) *
Satriani is so going to win this case!
Coldplay can never proove that they haven't heard If i could fly......


What happened to innocent until proven guilty? The burden of evidence should be on Satch, how on earth is he going to prove that Coldplay have heard If I could fly?


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Patrik Jezierski
post Dec 12 2008, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (Koopid @ Dec 12 2008, 01:38 PM) *
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? The burden of evidence should be on Satch, how on earth is he going to prove that Coldplay have heard If I could fly?


ofcourse! they are innocent until proven guilty, they haven't lost the case yet. The thing is that Joe Satriani doesn't have to prove a thing. His song has been out since 2004! There is a chance that coldplay might have heard If I could fly.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Dec 12 2008, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE (Patrik Jezierski @ Dec 12 2008, 12:08 PM) *
Coldplay can never proove that they haven't heard If i could fly.

You have missed the point. It isn't down to them to prove they haven't heard the song it is them that are defending to Satch has to prove that they had heard and copied the song. Coldplay don't have to prove they haven't heard it. Satch's lawyers will have to be very clever to win this case and it will certainly be a very interesting case as it's nothing so clear cut as The Verve's copy of Rolling Stones or Gary Moore's German band copy.

QUOTE (Patrik Jezierski @ Dec 12 2008, 12:47 PM) *
ofcourse! they are innocent until proven guilty, they haven't lost the case yet. The thing is that Joe Satriani doesn't have to prove a thing. His song has been out since 2004! There is a chance that coldplay might have heard If I could fly.

Joe Satriani does have to prove that they intentionally copied it. As like I said Coldplay are defending. I don't think you fully understand the legal system but if you do I'm sorry. It's down to the people that made the case to prove that Coldplay intentially stole it AND that it is close enough to Satch's song to have grounds for legal action.


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Koopid
post Dec 12 2008, 01:52 PM
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QUOTE (Patrik Jezierski @ Dec 12 2008, 01:47 PM) *
ofcourse! they are innocent until proven guilty, they haven't lost the case yet. The thing is that Joe Satriani doesn't have to prove a thing. His song has been out since 2004! There is a chance that coldplay might have heard If I could fly.


There is a chance they heard it ofcourse. And it is actually Satch that has to prove that it is plagiarism, that is the whole idea of innocent until proven guilty. The song has been out since 2004, Coldplay may have heard it, but how do you prove it? I think that there is a big chance that Coldplay looses, but I really think it does more harm than good for the music industry (and Satch) if Satch pursues and wins this.


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Bali
post Dec 12 2008, 02:02 PM
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It's not about intentionality!!

If you copy a copyrighted material you're subject to prosecution, even if you've never heard the original and your copy is coincidential (which of course is something that you can never prove!)

So it's only a matter of the courts to decide if the copy falls into the category of plagium according with the current legal system. Finished matter.
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Caelumamittendum
post Dec 12 2008, 02:04 PM
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I can't even be bothered to read through this case, and I'm even employed at a lawyers company! It's just stupid and childish... this coincidences happen - more or less by subconsciousness though. But it's a common progression...

Many hundred years of music have gone by, and I'm sure some Satriani song is similar to some song from earlier times.


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Bali
post Dec 12 2008, 02:08 PM
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QUOTE (Koopid @ Dec 12 2008, 09:52 AM) *
I think that there is a big chance that Coldplay looses, but I really think it does more harm than good for the music industry (and Satch) if Satch pursues and wins this.



Believe me, if you'd make your hard earned bread and butter with your creative efforts (I cannot think of a harder way to earn money than that), you'd definitely feel hurt if someone (particularly if they're famous) rips you off!!
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Koopid
post Dec 12 2008, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (Bali @ Dec 12 2008, 02:08 PM) *
Believe me, if you'd make your hard earned bread and butter with your creative efforts (I cannot think of a harder way to earn money than that), you'd definitely feel hurt if someone (particularly if they're famous) rips you off!!


In all honesty, If someone famous ripped me off right now, I'd be pretty happy smile.gif And I can think of a lot of harder ways to earn money than with creative efforts.


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Patrik Jezierski
post Dec 12 2008, 02:24 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 12 2008, 01:51 PM) *
You have missed the point. It isn't down to them to prove they haven't heard the song it is them that are defending to Satch has to prove that they had heard and copied the song. Coldplay don't have to prove they haven't heard it. Satch's lawyers will have to be very clever to win this case and it will certainly be a very interesting case as it's nothing so clear cut as The Verve's copy of Rolling Stones or Gary Moore's German band copy.


Joe Satriani does have to prove that they intentionally copied it. As like I said Coldplay are defending. I don't think you fully understand the legal system but if you do I'm sorry. It's down to the people that made the case to prove that Coldplay intentially stole it AND that it is close enough to Satch's song to have grounds for legal action.



My bad! tongue.gif youre right, i was speaking from the Swedish legal system, sorry.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Dec 12 2008, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE (Patrik Jezierski @ Dec 12 2008, 01:24 PM) *
My bad! tongue.gif youre right, i was speaking from the Swedish legal system, sorry.

Yeah but also it is important where this case is as in America it might be different to here. Maybe Satch is trying for the death penalty laugh.gif


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Patrik Jezierski
post Dec 12 2008, 02:30 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 12 2008, 02:28 PM) *
Yeah but also it is important where this case is as in America it might be different to here. Maybe Satch is trying for the death penalty laugh.gif

hahahaha you never know tongue.gif


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Koopid
post Dec 12 2008, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE (Patrik Jezierski @ Dec 12 2008, 02:24 PM) *
My bad! tongue.gif youre right, i was speaking from the Swedish legal system, sorry.


It is the same in Sweden smile.gif Satch has "Bevisbörda".


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Bogdan Radovic
post Dec 12 2008, 08:19 PM
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Maybe you're right guys smile.gif I just thought it was on Satriani to prove the similarities between the two songs, and that it doesn't matter if somebody did it intentional or not..In order to claim plagiarism..But since I'm no lawyer I can only guess smile.gif

This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: Dec 12 2008, 08:20 PM


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opeth.db
post Dec 12 2008, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Dec 12 2008, 02:19 PM) *
Maybe you're right guys smile.gif I just thought it was on Satriani to prove the similarities between the two songs, and that it doesn't matter if somebody did it intentional or not..In order to claim plagiarism..But since I'm no lawyer I can only guess smile.gif


SOunds like you need to go sign up at www.lawyermasterclass.net Bogdan smile.gif


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Bogdan Radovic
post Dec 12 2008, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE (opeth.db @ Dec 12 2008, 08:26 PM) *
SOunds like you need to go sign up at www.lawyermasterclass.net Bogdan smile.gif


Yeah "I'm Ready" to do so! smile.gif


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post Dec 13 2008, 04:15 PM
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If the songs I listened to on YouTube were the songs you guys are talking about, I just can't see the likeness.


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Matt23
post Dec 13 2008, 06:19 PM
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This adds a bit of a twist to the whole thing.

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