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> Sound Proffing A Room
SEANCD2005
post Dec 13 2008, 01:30 AM
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Hi every one, I have a question about how to sound proof a room. My band practices in a sun room of the living room and it can get kinda loud in the rest of the house. So to keep from druving my wife crazy i think it would be best to try and sound proof it but i dont realy know much about it. does any one have any suggestions thanks
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JCJXXL
post Dec 13 2008, 03:24 AM
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Good question. I've been wanting to do the same thing. Ideas guys?
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JVM
post Dec 13 2008, 03:33 AM
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I'd also be interested.


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kjutte
post Dec 13 2008, 04:07 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Dec 13 2008, 03:33 AM) *
I'd also be interested.


Google is your friend.
I think Mr. Cockburn's done it though!
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JVM
post Dec 13 2008, 04:23 AM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ Dec 12 2008, 10:07 PM) *
Google is your friend.
I think Mr. Cockburn's done it though!


No, GMC is my friend. tongue.gif

Seriously though, I trust the advice of our guys here. I've read Andrew's studio building blogs, good informative stuff. I know I could go look on google for advice, but one of the great parts of this forum, I've found, is when I come across really informative threads that have sprung up based on our own member's expertise. Might as well share the love.

[edit] speaking of, how do you access the blogs anymore? I can't seem to figure it out, but maybe I'm overlooking something. It certainly isn't intuitive, though.

This post has been edited by JVM: Dec 13 2008, 04:32 AM


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enforcer
post Dec 13 2008, 05:34 AM
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Well, having amateurly insulated 2 studios before, I think I have something to say.

Firstly, I have to say, whatever you do whichever steps you take, if you dont plan to spend a moderate sum of money for this project do NOT expect a really effective result.

There are two main aspects of sound proof studio building.
1st step is stopping the soundwaves that are getting out.
2nd step is stopping the soundwaves that are reflecting inside the studio.


Sound proofing the room:

At first step a REAL effective way to stop waves getting out is to build a room inside the room. It means using sound proof materials to insulate inner side of the walls of external room then building new walls with insulated exteriors while leaving some empty space from external walls. There must be a new door to the inner room (PVC double doors preferably) and also even ground must be raised with some empty space between actual ground level and ceiling must be lowered with same empty space and insulation layers. That is to say:



CODE

I I
I I
I I
I I
I I
I_______________I


actual room side view

to become:


_________________
I ----------- I
I i i I
I i i I
I i i I
I i===========i I
I_x_x_x_x_x_x_x_I

side view sound proof room

I:Sound proof material insulated interior

i:Sound proof material insulated exterior

x: Support for elevated floor (hard material under the new walls and soft material (maybe old car tires) under the elevated floor

-:lovered ceiling with soundproof material at top

=: raised floor with soundproof material below.

---Dont forget to scroll down the codebox!!!

Now as "sound proof material" you have many selectable materials but in reality you have virtually none. Generally sound proof material used in professional sound proofing applications are extremely pricey so I recommend you using inside cotton of old sofas, beds etc. that you can found in your local scrapyard.

For cheap inner wall material I recommend you use fiberboards and MDF's glued or nailed together to form a multiple layered medium.

And dont forget to install some electric outlets inside. You'll surely need electricity. wink.gif

Ok lets look at the top view of the our inner room:

CODE
____________
I ________ I
I i i I
I i i I
I i i I
=== i I
\ / i I
=== i I
I i i I
I i________i I
I____________I

External and internal rooms top view

I:external walls
i:internal walls

\ external door
/ internal door

=: doorway walls

---Dont forget to scroll down the codebox!!!


now the real problem here is air. As the rooms are near soundproof they are air proof too!!!bAnd you'll be amazed how the air inside will go bad after half an hour jamming. The easiest way is to install a very cheap and low BTU air conditionner to provide air. There are more complicated and cheap ways of doing this but believe me it doest worth the effort.

Now you got the sound proof room but if you have a sizeable inner room after moving your drumkit inside and actually hitting the cymballs you'll detect a disturbing reverb. This is because of naked wood walls that are reflecting the high frequency sound waves (good for outside) displacing from every flat surface inside (bad for you and your music). Thus we move to our next step:

Stopping these high frequency waves bouncing all over the place

This is relatively easy and cheaper. All you need lots of egg trays (to be glued on the walls) some random shaped plates nailed to the walls or hanging from ceiling with a few inches distance from walls, thick curtains hanging from walls or just some furniture.

All these above will disperse the uniform hf waves and cause them die down harmlessly.


Note: You can use your room's (to be soundproofed) location to evade these steps above. You obviously dont need to insulate the floor of a underground room, maybe even walls. If you dont have any neigboors (a nice country home -sigh-) you may concentrate the twin wall construction to the inner walls of your home etc.


You may ask me anything you wish I am always around here.

Cheers biggrin.gif

ps: I hate those codeboxes!!!
ps2: did I mention how I hated those codeboxes?

This post has been edited by enforcer: Dec 13 2008, 05:43 AM


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incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


Spoiler:


Vigier G.V Wood HH
American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
Morley Bad Horsie Wah Pedal
Behringer FB1010 Floor Board



it, surely, spoiled me!!!


and may the force be with you :)
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Sami
post Dec 13 2008, 05:40 AM
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The only advice i can add is that its most likely that the bass will get through it anyway unless you do it very well, just cause of the relative size of the wave(wavelength, frequency, etc.) This is all i know XD


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The thing about being really stupid, is that there are a zillion ways to be a moron. There are usually several ways to be intelligent, given a situation, but it is a small finite number. But there are always a zillion ways to be to blithering idiot. So finding a new way to have the intellect of an artichoke is nothing to be proud of really, it is easy to do.


So true... To bad im still an artichoke haha
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kjutte
post Dec 13 2008, 06:01 AM
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You know your stuff, Enforcer! Glad to have you on GMC!
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Slammer
post Dec 13 2008, 06:04 AM
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QUOTE (JVM @ Dec 12 2008, 10:23 PM) *
...[edit] speaking of, how do you access the blogs anymore? I can't seem to figure it out, but maybe I'm overlooking something. It certainly isn't intuitive, though.


https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/blog/ biggrin.gif
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 13 2008, 10:05 AM
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Hmm, I'm afraid sound profing a room is not that easy mate, but there are several techniques at your disposal that can help you to diminish the expenses. IT is a lot easier to build a acoustically treated room from inside than to make a real-deal sound isolating room from outside as well. Unfortunately, not any solution for inner isolation that is a bit cheaper does not allow a complete isolation. The sound will still be heard from outside a bit, specially the drumset.

The base sound isolator is - air. You will need to make a room within a room that will have air pockets between walls. Inner wall can be of special sound isolating material like these on the pictures:




Also some bass traps and corners:


The more cheaper version of this is to use egg boxes like this:


Another important thing to know is that heavy means - good. The more denser your isolation material is, the harder it will vibrate and the better it will stop the sound. Doors needs to be heavy and with some isolating foam like this:



Very important thing to have in the room in order to make it more sound isolating to external environment is drum floor. There are many projects on how to do it on the web and here are a few pictures:






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enforcer
post Dec 13 2008, 10:55 AM
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@kjutte

Thank you man, glad I am here...



QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Dec 13 2008, 11:05 AM) *
Another important thing to know is that heavy means - good. The more denser your isolation material is, the harder it will vibrate and the better it will stop the sound. Doors needs to be heavy and with some isolating foam like this:


The only thing here I wont agree with you Ivan with all respect, density is a bad thing for soundproofness. I am sure that Ivan meant here that density of air pockets in a material expands its soundproofing properties. As its known, sound waves propagates more than 3 times faster for solids more than 2 times faster for liquids than they propagate in air. And do do not propagate in the space, where theoretically the density is 0.

Cheers mate biggrin.gif


--------------------


incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


Spoiler:


Vigier G.V Wood HH
American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
Morley Bad Horsie Wah Pedal
Behringer FB1010 Floor Board



it, surely, spoiled me!!!


and may the force be with you :)
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 13 2008, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE (enforcer @ Dec 13 2008, 10:55 AM) *
The only thing here I wont agree with you Ivan with all respect, density is a bad thing for soundproofness. I am sure that Ivan meant here that density of air pockets in a material expands its soundproofing properties. As its known, sound waves propagates more than 3 times faster for solids more than 2 times faster for liquids than they propagate in air. And do do not propagate in the space, where theoretically the density is 0.

Cheers mate biggrin.gif


No problem mate, glad you corrected me there, I didn't explained well. I think we're actually on the same line here, except we had some interpreting issues. The density of the walls is crucial for keeping the sound energy within the room. This of course doesn't mean that one concrete wall that has a bunch or foam glued on it will prevent the sounds go externally.
There must be at least 2 walls, one internal and one external and one air pocket between them. The inner wall must be constructed out of solid mass material in order to absorb the sound energy better and get it away in other directions, cause the air pocket should prevent it from continuing the path outside. Also the best way to make a door is to make a double door, and fill them with sand. This should prevent the sound going through there.
Low density and mass materials can be used, but they will not absorb to much of the sound energy. Their roll is better in absorbing reflections withing the room, but as far as going out of the room is concerned the low mass walls will not prevent high energy sound waves (like from drumkit) to go out. Big mass walls help with containing that energy within the inner structure before it reaches the outer one, so the more air pockets and less firm contact with external environment - the better the sound waves will be contained within. These are just some generalized rules for sound proofing, I'm no expert in this field, so can't go in depth than this.


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Nemanja Filipovi...
post Dec 13 2008, 01:03 PM
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I was in the studio for a last couple of days recording drums.And we did a little acustic and sound proofing isolation.
We use material called Azmafon Attached Image

It is one of the healtiest thigs for profesional sound proofing and acustic isoloation.And many amazing studios here use it.But I do not know if there is Azmafon in other countries.


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SEANCD2005
post Dec 13 2008, 05:58 PM
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Thanks for the good info guys.
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enforcer
post Dec 26 2008, 01:23 AM
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QUOTE (SEANCD2005 @ Dec 13 2008, 06:58 PM) *
Thanks for the good info guys.


you're welcome mate biggrin.gif


--------------------


incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


Spoiler:


Vigier G.V Wood HH
American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
Morley Bad Horsie Wah Pedal
Behringer FB1010 Floor Board



it, surely, spoiled me!!!


and may the force be with you :)
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MickeM
post Dec 26 2008, 01:38 AM
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And going with the exact description fom enforcer of how to build a soundproof room I'd like to add that the different layers of sound proofing material should differ for the best result. So you could make one layer of material X then a small pocket of air followed by a layer of material Y.
This is because what sound X lets through will Y filter out even better, and the air pocket does its part in the process aswell since the sound will have to traver through different material, where air is one.

We used to rehearse in one of these rooms with a floating floor, double doors and all and it's really sound proof... and it gets really warm inside.

For a garage band it's good ideas to start from and maybe simplify to keep below a pro budget and "house"-standard.
Try to think of the room withn the room with as few connection points with the outerworld as possible (and air pocket inbetween)


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Vinod Saranga
post Dec 26 2008, 05:47 PM
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Andrew? unsure.gif


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Andrew Cockburn
post Dec 26 2008, 10:04 PM
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I'm here!

Actually, I didn't soundproof my studio as it is already underground -

Regarding the discussion on density, its not what the material is, air or otherwise, its how it interacts with the soundwaves that matters. Air is not a good sound insulator as we all know, it propagates sound just fine. Solid things can also propgate soundwaves. In fact, blocking high and low frequencise works differently.

High frequencies have low energy and can be blocked with a wall or something similar - in this case airtightness is the most important consideration. Low frequency waves however have enough energy to move things, and when they move things like walls they are in effect transmitting their enegy outwards. The trick with bass is to tire the soundwaves out by allowing something to move with them and thereby leech the energy out - this is the purpose of materials like rockwool or absorbent foam that are used in bass traps. The more you have of this the better - this is where the room within a room comes in - you fill the intervening area with a material that takes the energy out of the soundwaves. And as Ivan said, mass helps a lot here - my studio is buried underground and little sound gets out apart from theough the cieling which isn't covered with earth!

Now, bear in mind that soundproofing a room is different to acoustically treating it. Putting various types of foam on the walls won't block the sound significantly - that is doen in studios to even out the
response of the room to prevent boominess inside. All of the soundproofing goes on inside the walls, and with the double doors etc.

If you want to get serious about this I would reccomend a book I bought when setting up my studio - its called "Home Recording Studio - build it like the pros" by Rod Gervais - a great read.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 28 2008, 04:40 PM
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QUOTE (Andrew Cockburn @ Dec 26 2008, 10:04 PM) *
If you want to get serious about this I would reccomend a book I bought when setting up my studio - its called "Home Recording Studio - build it like the pros" by Rod Gervais - a great read.


I have that book too! Great reading, my vote on that as well smile.gif


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audiopaal
post Dec 28 2008, 06:40 PM
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Awesome replies guys, thanks smile.gif
Pretty informative stuff!
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