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> Marshall Heads, Just some questions
Sircraigery
post Dec 14 2008, 08:09 AM
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I'm looking to upgrade my head to a marshall tube. I was in the shop, and I've been really stuck on the Kerry King head, which is basically a JCM800 with a button for Kerry's gain, eq setting and noise gate. Isn't surprising since the JCM800 is such a kick ass amp.

But I am wondering if, for the price, anyone has another suggestion. I mean, that head is really awesome, but it's only 1 channel. 98% I'm playing with distortion (unless, I'm practicing scales).

Are all JCM800's 1 channel? If there was a foot switch for clean/dist channels, I'd go buy it tomorrow... so I'm hesitant. Although, IF I ever was to play a gig, I could probably just turn the volume on my guitar down if I needed to play clean during a verse or w/e right?
Or would that sound like crap?

Anyways, here's a link for the demo Guitar World did on it. Then you'll see, I'm not just interested in it cuz Kerry's sig is on it, it's a really great sounding amp. BTW, my local shop has it new for $1400 cdn, and on the net it goes for $2400 cdn.

Another option would be just get a used JCM800, what would that be worth in good condition?


2203KK Marshall Head


Craig


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kjutte
post Dec 14 2008, 08:26 AM
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QUOTE (Sircraigery @ Dec 14 2008, 08:09 AM) *
I'm looking to upgrade my head to a marshall tube. I was in the shop, and I've been really stuck on the Kerry King head, which is basically a JCM800 with a button for Kerry's gain, eq setting and noise gate. Isn't surprising since the JCM800 is such a kick ass amp.

But I am wondering if, for the price, anyone has another suggestion. I mean, that head is really awesome, but it's only 1 channel. 98% I'm playing with distortion (unless, I'm practicing scales).

Are all JCM800's 1 channel? If there was a foot switch for clean/dist channels, I'd go buy it tomorrow... so I'm hesitant. Although, IF I ever was to play a gig, I could probably just turn the volume on my guitar down if I needed to play clean during a verse or w/e right?
Or would that sound like crap?

Anyways, here's a link for the demo Guitar World did on it. Then you'll see, I'm not just interested in it cuz Kerry's sig is on it, it's a really great sounding amp. BTW, my local shop has it new for $1400 cdn, and on the net it goes for $2400 cdn.

Another option would be just get a used JCM800, what would that be worth in good condition?


2203KK Marshall Head


Craig


I have a marshall TSL, and I love it.
However if I hadn't spent time modding it, I would prolly trade it for an ENGL screamer.
More versatile amp.

And you will probably play more various styles as you grow musically sircraig, so don't use that as a criteria.
Versatility should always be criteria in my opinion.
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Sircraigery
post Dec 14 2008, 09:04 AM
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Yeah, I've only heard good things about ENGL, but unfortunately there isn't a shop around that stocks them. And I'm too far away from anywhere to order one ($$$ for shipping), which kinda sucks.

That TSL looks like another good option though...I'll have to look into that further. Those are JCM2000's right?


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kjutte
post Dec 14 2008, 10:20 AM
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QUOTE (Sircraigery @ Dec 14 2008, 09:04 AM) *
Yeah, I've only heard good things about ENGL, but unfortunately there isn't a shop around that stocks them. And I'm too far away from anywhere to order one ($$$ for shipping), which kinda sucks.

That TSL looks like another good option though...I'll have to look into that further. Those are JCM2000's right?


Yeah, that's correct.
With an added BBpreamp, I think it's a pretty versatile amp.
It doesn't have a serial loop though, so I modded one into mine for chorus and similar effects.
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MickeM
post Dec 14 2008, 10:49 AM
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The older models of JCM800 had one channel, later there came two channel amps.


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Marcus Siepen
post Dec 14 2008, 12:57 PM
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I still have my old JCM 800 from the early 80's, and yes, back then they only had one channel. Important advice about Marshalls: If you play a head in the shop and you like it, buy EXACTLY this head, not just the same model, Marshall has big problems when it comes to build two amps that sound the same. There are HUGE sound differences even withing the same models.


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kjutte
post Dec 14 2008, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Dec 14 2008, 12:57 PM) *
I still have my old JCM 800 from the early 80's, and yes, back then they only had one channel. Important advice about Marshalls: If you play a head in the shop and you like it, buy EXACTLY this head, not just the same model, Marshall has big problems when it comes to build two amps that sound the same. There are HUGE sound differences even withing the same models.


I have noticed. My TSL head sounds nothing like my mates', which is the reason I bought TSL in the first place, haha.
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tommyboy
post Dec 14 2008, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE (Sircraigery @ Dec 14 2008, 01:09 AM) *
I'm looking to upgrade my head to a marshall tube. I was in the shop, and I've been really stuck on the Kerry King head, which is basically a JCM800 with a button for Kerry's gain, eq setting and noise gate. Isn't surprising since the JCM800 is such a kick ass amp.

But I am wondering if, for the price, anyone has another suggestion. I mean, that head is really awesome, but it's only 1 channel. 98% I'm playing with distortion (unless, I'm practicing scales).

Are all JCM800's 1 channel? If there was a foot switch for clean/dist channels, I'd go buy it tomorrow... so I'm hesitant. Although, IF I ever was to play a gig, I could probably just turn the volume on my guitar down if I needed to play clean during a verse or w/e right?
Or would that sound like crap?

Anyways, here's a link for the demo Guitar World did on it. Then you'll see, I'm not just interested in it cuz Kerry's sig is on it, it's a really great sounding amp. BTW, my local shop has it new for $1400 cdn, and on the net it goes for $2400 cdn.

Another option would be just get a used JCM800, what would that be worth in good condition?


2203KK Marshall Head


Craig


I've used to play through a JCM 800 2205 Head. Fantastic amp 2 channels clean and overdrive. Serial effect loop and the head has spring reverb.

Now I'm playing a JCM 2000 DSL 50 Watt. I will never sell this head as it's what every Marshall should be. It just drips pure Marshall tone and has more gain than you'll ever use. I can get every type of tone I want. Plus, it take effects both in front and trough the effects loop without loosing that Marshall character. But the clean channel is the best Marshall has ever put in a head. Marshall quite making JCM 2000's when they started there JVM line. However, Marshall just released a 85 anniversary Jim Marshall model that brings back the JCM 2000 DSL. Most die hard Marshall people will tell you the DSL sounds better than the TSL and the 50 watt heads are better sounding than the 100 watt heads. I paid $725 US dollars for my head with shipping on Ebay and my head was made in 2005 and was in Mint condition. Not a flaw. Even had all the original tubes. Gives you a idea what you should be able to get one for.

Hear for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2XB0W26ycw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6jxTChhD7w...feature=related

The Marshall 1923 head is the new 85th anniversary head.
http://www.marshallamps.com/product.asp?productCode=1923

I'll play Marshall's till the day I die.
Just pure rock and roll in a box.

tommyboy


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FrankW
post Dec 14 2008, 05:42 PM
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For the price of that head, you have alot of options. Look at the Marshall JVM 210H, the JVM 205H, and for a little more, the JVM 410H. All of these heads have great cleans according to the experts, along with more distortion than you'll ever need. They also have many more tonal options than the head you're looking at. And these are just the Marshall heads.

I would also check out the Mesa Boogie Stiletto Ace and Deuce if I were you. According to everything I've read about them, they are killer EL34 powered amps with awesome cleans and monster overdriven sounds, just ask Andy Timmons. You've got a bunch to choose from.
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 14 2008, 06:42 PM
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JCM2000 DSL50 or TSL60 heads could be what you need mate, they are very versatile and have a bunch of options and high gain. DSL has 2 channels, and TSL has 3 channels. You can check out my TSL601 tutorial here on GMC, it's a combo version, but TSL60 is the exact same amp.

Also I agree with Marcus, you should really buy the head you hear in the store, cause Marshalls tend to sound differently among the same model line, and the fact they use different tube sets.



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Marcus Siepen
post Dec 14 2008, 06:52 PM
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and another funny thing about Mrshalls is that there only seem to be 2 kind of Marshalls... good ones and bad ones, there is nothing in the middle, either they rock or sound extremely crappy... my humble opinion wink.gif


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kjutte
post Dec 14 2008, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE (tommyboy @ Dec 14 2008, 03:27 PM) *
I've used to play through a JCM 800 2205 Head. Fantastic amp 2 channels clean and overdrive. Serial effect loop and the head has spring reverb.

Now I'm playing a JCM 2000 DSL 50 Watt. I will never sell this head as it's what every Marshall should be. It just drips pure Marshall tone and has more gain than you'll ever use. I can get every type of tone I want. Plus, it take effects both in front and trough the effects loop without loosing that Marshall character. But the clean channel is the best Marshall has ever put in a head. Marshall quite making JCM 2000's when they started there JVM line. However, Marshall just released a 85 anniversary Jim Marshall model that brings back the JCM 2000 DSL. Most die hard Marshall people will tell you the DSL sounds better than the TSL and the 50 watt heads are better sounding than the 100 watt heads. I paid $725 US dollars for my head with shipping on Ebay and my head was made in 2005 and was in Mint condition. Not a flaw. Even had all the original tubes. Gives you a idea what you should be able to get one for.

Hear for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2XB0W26ycw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6jxTChhD7w...feature=related

The Marshall 1923 head is the new 85th anniversary head.
http://www.marshallamps.com/product.asp?productCode=1923

I'll play Marshall's till the day I die.
Just pure rock and roll in a box.

tommyboy


reason I didn't buy it is:
no emulated output
less versatility 'cus of no crunch channel.

QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Dec 14 2008, 06:52 PM) *
and another funny thing about Mrshalls is that there only seem to be 2 kind of Marshalls... good ones and bad ones, there is nothing in the middle, either they rock or sound extremely crappy... my humble opinion wink.gif


haha biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by kjutte: Dec 14 2008, 07:06 PM
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tommyboy
post Dec 14 2008, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE (FrankW @ Dec 14 2008, 10:42 AM) *
For the price of that head, you have alot of options. Look at the Marshall JVM 210H, the JVM 205H, and for a little more, the JVM 410H. All of these heads have great cleans according to the experts, along with more distortion than you'll ever need. They also have many more tonal options than the head you're looking at. And these are just the Marshall heads.

I would also check out the Mesa Boogie Stiletto Ace and Deuce if I were you. According to everything I've read about them, they are killer EL34 powered amps with awesome cleans and monster overdriven sounds, just ask Andy Timmons. You've got a bunch to choose from.


I agree the JVM's are great amps. The only thing I don't care for is they just have too many bells and whistles. Give me a amp with two great channels and the rest can be contoured via the guitar, amps gain, and eq pedals. However, the JVM 205H might just be my next head.

I seriously looked at the Stiletto Deuce before buying my JCM 2000. Took one home for two days to try out. They're great sounding amps but and it's a BIG BUT they don't sound the same as a Marshall. Mesa's EL34 tone still sounds very Mesa not Marshall. The mid range control on the Stiletto's don't have near the control of one on a Marshall. Marshall's have a certain midrange tone that only Marshall's seem to get. I'm thinking people either love it or hate it. That's why some are just die hard Marshall fans and the rest play something else.


QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Dec 14 2008, 11:52 AM) *
and another funny thing about Marshall's is that there only seem to be 2 kind of Marshalls... good ones and bad ones, there is nothing in the middle, either they rock or sound extremely crappy... my humble opinion wink.gif


I my opinion I think the older JCM's 900's, 800's, Plexi's aren't as consistent. I'd weigh in saying Marshall has gotten much better since the JCM 2000's came out. I think Marshall is much better with their consistency.

But I would also add, the same goes for Mesa Boogie. I've heard Dual Rec's side by side that don't sound the same.

QUOTE (kjutte @ Dec 14 2008, 12:06 PM) *
reason I didn't buy it is:
no emulated output
less versatility 'cus of no crunch channel.


I'm not a fan of the emulated outputs. I still like the SM57 miked cab for recording or playing live. I've found depending on the venue mike placement can really contour your overall tone.

I use a BE clean boost pedal to go between a crunch and more gain. I do understand some people want a additional third channel. However, I much prefer my rhythm and lead tone to be of the same channel. I've never had much luck using another channel for leads. This however is just my preference how I like to play live.

tommyboy


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Sircraigery
post Dec 14 2008, 10:04 PM
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Lots of good info/advice here. While searching got amps online, I came across the Mesa Mark IV and that seems to sounds really good too.

What is an emulated output? Also, what is the difference between serial/parallel loops? I know what the difference is in a simple circuit, but not too sure how to relay how a parallel loop works for an effects loop.


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FrankW
post Dec 15 2008, 02:24 AM
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http://www.guitarsite.com/guitar_FAQ.htm#LOOP

Here's a link that helps describe the difference between serial and parallel effects loops. I've got a TSL 100 that has two effects loops that are basically parallel until you crank the wet/dry mix to 10. Then they are serial loops.

I wish they made a fifty watt version of the JVM 410h, I'd be all over it. Tommyboy, I respect your take on the amps we're talking about, but I wouldn't mind the four channel JVM 410h if the bells and whistles were usable.

Everything I read about this amp tells me it may be the best Marshall ever made. You can get JCM 800 sounds, Plexi sounds, uber-distortion, and excellent cleans. The JVM 205h is the same kind of animal. What I like about the four channels is the ability to come up with an awesome number of usable tones in conjunction with different overdrive pedals.

Running two different overdrive boxes on, say, channels two and three, could give you five different lead tones when also utilizing channel four. With that setup, for example, you also would have two or three different clean tones, depending on whether you hit the overdrive pedals or not. And you can do all this without even messing with anything else on the front panel.

I also like the Mesa Boogie Road King, a monster. My TSL 100 is good enough, though, as I can get a lot of tones out of it by doing the same thing I was just talking about, except with three channels instead of four. I also like the VPR switch which simulates a 25 watt output instead of 100 watts of blow your face off. I guess it boils down to how much flexibility you think you might need either at home or on stage.

SirCraigery, a Mark IV is an unusual amp in that it has both 6L6 and EL34 power tubes. That's what Petrucci is using at the moment, a great sound for sure. I would shop the 6L6 powered amps too. You have so many great amps to choose from. smile.gif
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OrganisedConfusi...
post Dec 15 2008, 02:31 AM
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I happen to think the JCM2000 is awful but I have an 800 so I would say that tongue.gif


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Guitarman700
post Dec 15 2008, 02:41 AM
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The Kerry king Head is the most Brutal thing i have EVER had the unholy pleasure to plug into, bar none. But, there is NO versatility in that amp. If i was rich, id buy it, but i like my clean channel, Thank you.

This post has been edited by Guitarman700: Dec 15 2008, 02:41 AM


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Sircraigery
post Dec 15 2008, 03:24 AM
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QUOTE (FrankW @ Dec 15 2008, 02:24 AM) *
http://www.guitarsite.com/guitar_FAQ.htm#LOOP

.....

SirCraigery, a Mark IV is an unusual amp in that it has both 6L6 and EL34 power tubes. That's what Petrucci is using at the moment, a great sound for sure. I would shop the 6L6 powered amps too. You have so many great amps to choose from. smile.gif


Yeah, the amp seems to be awesome from what I heard of it too. Lamb of God also use the Mark IV (or at least until the dvd I have was made -> Killadelphia).

Ok, so a serial loop alters the complete signal coming from the preamp, and the parallel has a "wet/dry" knob to choose how much of the signal you alter with effects? Is this correct? That would be good for some effects like echo and delays.

One my main problems with amps is that I cannot dial in a good tone for the life of me. But this could be because my amp kinda sucks haha. The less knobs, the better (almost) if I like the sound of it.

QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 15 2008, 02:31 AM) *
I happen to think the JCM2000 is awful but I have an 800 so I would say that tongue.gif


Yeah, I can't even describe it, that youtube vid doesn't do it justice at all. Maybe he was testing on of the 'bad' Marshalls hehe. I've never heard a jcm2000 with my guitar, so I think I'm heading to the store tomorrow to check out that and the other models mentioned above.


QUOTE (Guitarman700 @ Dec 15 2008, 02:41 AM) *
The Kerry king Head is the most Brutal thing i have EVER had the unholy pleasure to plug into, bar none. But, there is NO versatility in that amp. If i was rich, id buy it, but i like my clean channel, Thank you.


I agree, and I wanted to marry it. It's just a hobby for me to play some covers after work. I still got my other amp, if I need a clean channel. But man, it would be nice to have both.... I wish it came in a 50W, in all honesty I don't need 100W. Whatever head I do end up buying will probably see drums only 5x in 5 years anyways.




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Guitars:
Ibanez Prestige RG2610E [BKP Cold Sweat]
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Quest Acoustic [Stock]

Effects:
Electro-Harmonix Metal Muff
Ibanez Weeping Demon Wah
Boss DR-3 Dr. Rhythym

Amp:
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401

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tommyboy
post Dec 15 2008, 04:53 AM
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QUOTE (FrankW @ Dec 14 2008, 07:24 PM) *
http://www.guitarsite.com/guitar_FAQ.htm#LOOP

Here's a link that helps describe the difference between serial and parallel effects loops. I've got a TSL 100 that has two effects loops that are basically parallel until you crank the wet/dry mix to 10. Then they are serial loops.

I wish they made a fifty watt version of the JVM 410h, I'd be all over it. Tommyboy, I respect your take on the amps we're talking about, but I wouldn't mind the four channel JVM 410h if the bells and whistles were usable.

Everything I read about this amp tells me it may be the best Marshall ever made. You can get JCM 800 sounds, Plexi sounds, uber-distortion, and excellent cleans. The JVM 205h is the same kind of animal. What I like about the four channels is the ability to come up with an awesome number of usable tones in conjunction with different overdrive pedals.

Running two different overdrive boxes on, say, channels two and three, could give you five different lead tones when also utilizing channel four. With that setup, for example, you also would have two or three different clean tones, depending on whether you hit the overdrive pedals or not. And you can do all this without even messing with anything else on the front panel.

I also like the Mesa Boogie Road King, a monster. My TSL 100 is good enough, though, as I can get a lot of tones out of it by doing the same thing I was just talking about, except with three channels instead of four. I also like the VPR switch which simulates a 25 watt output instead of 100 watts of blow your face off. I guess it boils down to how much flexibility you think you might need either at home or on stage.

SirCraigery, a Mark IV is an unusual amp in that it has both 6L6 and EL34 power tubes. That's what Petrucci is using at the moment, a great sound for sure. I would shop the 6L6 powered amps too. You have so many great amps to choose from. smile.gif


The fun thing about this discussion is that all of the amps we are talking about sound awesome. It's really a matter of splitting hairs once you've acquired a really good tube amp. Why aren't we talking about the Mesa Triaxis. This might just be the most versital tube preamp ever made. Marshall's JMP is quite the unit also. The only reason I pointed out the JCM 2000 DSL was because the 2203 JCM 800 voicing in contained in this amp. But you can pick one up for pennys considering what a new 2203KK goes for.


QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Dec 14 2008, 07:31 PM) *
I happen to think the JCM2000 is awful but I have an 800 so I would say that tongue.gif


Dude, your only saying that because you don't think Satch has a legit law suit. tongue.gif If you really think the JCM 2000 series are awful I'm really starting to wonder about your take on tone. Yes, the JCM 800's are great. I used to own one. Still wish I did. However, to think my JCM 2000 is a sloppy second is just stupid. It wouldn't be Marshall's best selling amp to date if it sounded AWFUL! wink.gif


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FrankW
post Dec 15 2008, 05:22 AM
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QUOTE (tommyboy @ Dec 15 2008, 04:53 AM) *
The fun thing about this discussion is that all of the amps we are talking about sound awesome. It's really a matter of splitting hairs once you've acquired a really good tube amp. Why aren't we talking about the Mesa Triaxis. This might just be the most versital tube preamp ever made. Marshall's JMP is quite the unit also. The only reason I pointed out the JCM 2000 DSL was because the 2203 JCM 800 voicing in contained in this amp. But you can pick one up for pennys considering what a new 2203KK goes for.


I owned a couple of 50 watt JCM 800s as well as the 25th anniversary Jubilee head. I sold them like an idiot a long time ago. I didn't know the DSL had the JCM 800 voicing. That kind of invalidates the one stupid, immature remark I read about it doesn't it? I got rid of a Dual Rectifier which was also a mistake. I bought the TSL 100 solely based on the overdriven preamp sound in the music store. You know, where it wasn't really cranked.

To be honest, I haven't cranked this amp ever in the three years that I've owned it. I couldn't tell you what it really sounds like. I've read mixed reviews about it, but most love it. I haven't needed to crank it of late because I haven't jammed with anyone in a while. It needs new tubes because it keeps blowing fuses, so I'll put something cool in it based on that tube website you posted. Any suggestions?

I also read alot about the Triaxis. Coupled with a killer power amp like maybe the Marshall 9200 monoblock, and you'd really have something. Have you checked out the Road King? This monster has 4-6L6s, and 2 EL34s. Check out the Mesa website and see what this thing is capable of, it's revolutionary. I too, love talking about amps. smile.gif
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