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> Perfect/absolute Pitch
Wabba
post Dec 17 2008, 05:25 PM
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Hi! Just wondering, do these "Perfect pitch trainers" on the internet work? I mean something like grahams pitch juorney. I would like to learn perfect pitch, so is it possible to learn? Or is it even an usable skill in music?

And for those who don't know, if you have perfect pitch, you can identify any note you hear, and immediatly name it.

Or have i understood everything wrong?
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Iluha
post Dec 17 2008, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE (Wabba @ Dec 17 2008, 06:25 PM) *
Hi! Just wondering, do these "Perfect pitch trainers" on the internet work? I mean something like grahams pitch juorney. I would like to learn perfect pitch, so is it possible to learn? Or is it even an usable skill in music?

And for those who don't know, if you have perfect pitch, you can identify any note you hear, and immediatly name it.

Or have i understood everything wrong?


Sure, it's a helpful skill, iv'e heard of people that learned it. I think what those programs do is simply let you hear notes, chords, intervals, etc. and name them...


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Ramiro Delforte
post Dec 17 2008, 06:17 PM
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You can learn absolute pitch. In the Elementary Training for Musicians, Paul Hindemith says that absolute pitch is something you learn as well as relative pitch. The one that I know is very complete is the David Lucas Burge absolute pitch training you may also want to check the relative pitch. But above all absolute pitch is not that usefull if you don't are trainned in relative pitch.


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BMcG
post Dec 17 2008, 06:57 PM
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I think it's fair to say that very few great musicians have "perfect pitch" or "absolute pitch". Studies have been done with the goal of trying to find out if perfect pitch can be learned with varying results.

Relative Pitch (taught in music schools as "sight singing" or "ear training") is a very learnable and necessary skill for musicians. Relative pitch can be studied/learned in many ways. There are some great ear training software programs which are available commercially, and many good free ones online. Just google "ear training". Another great thing for your ears is to copy your favorite guitarists licks, solos, chord progressions, etc. off of the recordings.

This is step one in being able to improvise. Pure improvisation (which most improvising players use maybe 20% of the time) is just this. You hear a melodic line in your "inner ear" (ie. in your head), and then you play that line on your instrument. This uses the EXACT same process as copying licks from your favorite recordings, the only exception being that it's done in real time, and you can't rewind!

One word of caution: Ear training is a discipline which takes consistent practice and dedication over long periods of time to show results (sound familiar?). So, don't get frustrated!! Start by learning interval names and sounds and being able to hear intervals without knowing what notes are being played. For example if someone plays 'C' and then the 'A' above it on a piano, you should be able to say that it's a 'Major Sixth', without knowing that it was C->A that was played. If you then heard 'D'->'B' you would say 'Major Sixth' again, even though the notes are different, the interval (distance between the notes) is the same.

To answer the original question, I would recommend practicing/studying "perfect/absolute pitch" only for people who have EXCELLENT relative pitch already, and can basically hear an unfamiliar passage of music and play it back on their instrument (given only the starting pitch) with very good frequency.

Good luck, and hope that helps,
_Bryan
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 17 2008, 10:07 PM
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You are right mate, perfect pitch is a skill that you can acquire in time. It just depends how long it will take for you to develop the skill properly, depending how your brain is "wired" for pitch recognition. I think you can learn the perfect pitch ability no problem if you put some time and effort to it mate, so any guide or tool that can help you with it will only shorten the learning time.


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Pedja Simovic
post Dec 17 2008, 10:25 PM
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Perfect pitch can be taught and gained. You need to do the exercises, dictations, transcribing on regular basis. That will improve your pitch recognition.

I don't have perfect pitch but very strong relative pitch from which I can relate to any note. To some degree some people might call that perfect pitch but I don't have all notes memorized in my mind , just couple of them and from them I find the others by applying relative pitch.

I know a lot of people that have perfect pitch (from Berklee) and in most cases this doesn't help them as they don't have relative pitch and thing totally different in terms of music.

I would strongly recommend you go for Relative pitch training and then when you finish that (there is a lot of work there so it should take you a while wink.gif go for the perfect pitch one if you still feel you need it.

David Lucas Burge method is proven to be effective so you should perhaps give it a shoot there.

Thanks


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kjutte
post Dec 17 2008, 10:57 PM
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I only want relative pitch I think. Perfect pitch has many cons.
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Nemanja Filipovi...
post Dec 17 2008, 11:12 PM
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There where some big theards on this matter in the past.And yes,It is just a matter of practice.But some people need more time then the others.
That is why so little people actually has the perfect pitch.But as Pedja sad,perfect pitch requiers amazing body of work,and a lot of time.I have normal pitch(not so good after all smile.gif ).But my older sister has the perfect pich,but she is one of the people that did not need to practice as much as for examplle I need.


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Gerardo Siere
post Dec 18 2008, 02:03 AM
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You can learn perfect pitch, specially when the sounds are played by certain familiar instruments (like the guitar...), the theory behind that is tah any class of pitch (all the "c"s, all the "A"s share some kind of distingable colour. I remember a nice anecdote of Guthrie Govan, he said that once he has a student that was doing the Lucas course, an he was amazed tha he could guess whatever note he played in the guitar, but when he played chords the student just said "I´m sorry, all the chords just sound brown to me".


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Pedja Simovic
post Dec 18 2008, 09:54 AM
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Yeah Gerardo I have heard of that story too its a funny one smile.gif


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OtitusMedia
post Dec 18 2008, 03:20 PM
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I think, learning to get the perfect pitch is like everything else you can learn. You just have to add something familiar to it.

For example: grass. The first impression i get when I think about grass is the color green. And vice versa.

In music, it just works like that.

Just like it is with the intervals. When I think about an interval of a forth, I think about Mozarts Kleine Nachtmusik..u know duuun...dun duuun...dun dun dun dun dun duuuuuun.
A fifth - the beginning of the horror movie Helloween-Piano-Theme etc.

It´s the same with pitches.
For example, when I think about an Open D-Chord, or just the tone D, my first impression is the first chord of Dream Theaters "Misunderstood". And I never fail the pitch.

Those things just get burned into your subconsciousness. You just have to work on it.

But I have to say, I once had a programm that should teach you the perfect pitch and it doesn´t work out for me, cause it just provided samples of tones and chords without any background. It was lame and boring.

So I think, if you want to get the perfect pitch, you have to earn it by adding the memories of cool music you heared or played by yourself to the tones you want to identify. But that is hard work and it takes a lot of time....
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Pedja Simovic
post Dec 18 2008, 03:55 PM
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QUOTE (OtitusMedia @ Dec 18 2008, 03:20 PM) *
I think, learning to get the perfect pitch is like everything else you can learn. You just have to add something familiar to it.

For example: grass. The first impression i get when I think about grass is the color green. And vice versa.

In music, it just works like that.

Just like it is with the intervals. When I think about an interval of a forth, I think about Mozarts Kleine Nachtmusik..u know duuun...dun duuun...dun dun dun dun dun duuuuuun.
A fifth - the beginning of the horror movie Helloween-Piano-Theme etc.

It´s the same with pitches.
For example, when I think about an Open D-Chord, or just the tone D, my first impression is the first chord of Dream Theaters "Misunderstood". And I never fail the pitch.

Those things just get burned into your subconsciousness. You just have to work on it.

But I have to say, I once had a programm that should teach you the perfect pitch and it doesn´t work out for me, cause it just provided samples of tones and chords without any background. It was lame and boring.

So I think, if you want to get the perfect pitch, you have to earn it by adding the memories of cool music you heared or played by yourself to the tones you want to identify. But that is hard work and it takes a lot of time....


Great post man !

I agree with you
I apply songs and melodies to remember specific keys and intervals.
Like Minor 2nd is jaws up or down Fur Elize classical etc

smile.gif


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Wabba
post Dec 18 2008, 04:08 PM
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Thx for answering!

Do you learn relative (or perfect, maybe?) pitch in time while playing music?
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Pedja Simovic
post Dec 18 2008, 04:17 PM
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QUOTE (Wabba @ Dec 18 2008, 04:08 PM) *
Thx for answering!

Do you learn relative (or perfect, maybe?) pitch in time while playing music?


Definitely !
Sing the melodies , exercises or anything that you play. In fact its better to sing it first and then try to play it


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IDontWantMyUsern...
post Dec 18 2008, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (OtitusMedia @ Dec 18 2008, 03:20 PM) *
I think, learning to get the perfect pitch is like everything else you can learn. You just have to add something familiar to it.

For example: grass. The first impression i get when I think about grass is the color green. And vice versa.

In music, it just works like that.

Just like it is with the intervals. When I think about an interval of a forth, I think about Mozarts Kleine Nachtmusik..u know duuun...dun duuun...dun dun dun dun dun duuuuuun.
A fifth - the beginning of the horror movie Helloween-Piano-Theme etc.

It´s the same with pitches.
For example, when I think about an Open D-Chord, or just the tone D, my first impression is the first chord of Dream Theaters "Misunderstood". And I never fail the pitch.

Those things just get burned into your subconsciousness. You just have to work on it.

But I have to say, I once had a programm that should teach you the perfect pitch and it doesn´t work out for me, cause it just provided samples of tones and chords without any background. It was lame and boring.

So I think, if you want to get the perfect pitch, you have to earn it by adding the memories of cool music you heared or played by yourself to the tones you want to identify. But that is hard work and it takes a lot of time....


Hello, I have perfect pitch (At least that's what I have been told) and I understand well what you mean here. It happens sometimes that just one note reminds me of a song. For example; I remember once when some guys at the music school I am going to were practicing a song, and it started with a B. It always reminded me of Soul to the World though if the song they practiced didn't sound like it at all, it was just that one note in the start of the song that reminded me of it. That is by the way how I hear pitches too. I hear the note and it reminds me of a song, for example if someone plays a low G#, it will remind me of "Fantasie Impromptu" by Chopin, and then I know that it is a G#. If you want to know if I have trained a lot to get perfect pitch, the answer is no. Though, I do transcribe a lot of music, so that could have had something to do with it.


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Muris Varajic
post Dec 18 2008, 10:20 PM
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It's eventually good to train perfect pitch(I don't see many cudos to do that tho)
but only after you train VERY good relative pitch.
Relative pitch is used daily,you can apply it to everything.
Per example,when I'm listening to a song I say to myself
"OK,lets say it's D major key".
Then I listen to the chords and apply relative pitch to locate degrees,types of chords etc.
After that,I can play that song from every key possible,doesn't matter at all.
And you know the singers,bad condition of voice,move it whole step down and such. biggrin.gif
With perfect pitch I would waste my time to NAME each chord by color,
it's not bad of course but after you gain good relative pitch,my 2 cents. smile.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Dec 18 2008, 10:43 PM
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Great post Muris, I agree - relative pitch is very important indeed. Knowing the relationships between the notes, and memorizing them for example as numbers/intervals is a lot more useful in daily practice then knowing to name the notes (although that is good to know as well).


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