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> Enforcer-jer Mtp Sessions Thread, yeah this is our place :)
enforcer
post Feb 2 2009, 08:13 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 2 2009, 08:57 PM) *
I misunderstood you then.

When you said: "Try to detect the key and the scale for the first solo part."

I thought you wanted me to find the key based on the solo. I found it to be Emin.

You are saying that is correct, yes?

I hadnt looked at the 2nd solo yet. You already answered that.

What next?



I'm familiar with the blue note in the blues scales. And that its the pentatonic scale with an extra note. But I dont know what your question is asking...


Yeah buddy you were right about Emin I just wanted to show you a very precise way to find the key and the scale biggrin.gif I didnt asked you anything about Emin pent and E blues scales I just wanted to be sure that you know them, and you know them its ok biggrin.gif

These tricks like the one I explained before as the modulation from E to A etc are the keys to learn a style from a band and replicate or make it better.

I want you to learn intervals for building modes from any note... Like you may use for major: TTSTTTS or minor: TSTTSTT you may want to fill that for the following:

Ionian:
Dorian:
Phrygian:
Lydian:
Mixolydian:
Aeolian:
Locrian:

It is not hard, you can find this information in many place on forums...

Cheers smile.gif


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jer
post Feb 2 2009, 08:39 PM
Post #222


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QUOTE
I want you to learn intervals for building modes from any note... Like you may use for major: TTSTTTS or minor: TSTTSTT you may want to fill that for the following:


Ionian: ttsttts
Dorian: tstttst
Phrygian: stttstt
Lydian: tttstts
Mixolydian: ttsttst
Aeolian:tsttstt
Locrian:sttsttt


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enforcer
post Feb 2 2009, 08:45 PM
Post #223


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Ok, now try to play this on guitar when you get home. All from a key that you like, you may use 3 note per string method.

Now lets make things a little interesting.

Write these modes in the following way:

Ionian(major) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Aeolian(minor) 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Dorian:
Phrygian:
Lydian:
Mixolydian:
Locrian:


--------------------


incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


Spoiler:


Vigier G.V Wood HH
American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
Morley Bad Horsie Wah Pedal
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jer
post Feb 2 2009, 10:30 PM
Post #224


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QUOTE
Ok, now try to play this on guitar when you get home. All from a key that you like, you may use 3 note per string method.


Play what?

QUOTE
Write these modes in the following way:

Ionian(major) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Aeolian(minor) 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Dorian:
Phrygian:
Lydian:
Mixolydian:
Locrian:


Ok, here I dont have any sort of "system" or "Shortcut" that I am aware of. I just have to write them all out and compare to the major scale.

I'll use C as an example.

Dorian - tstttst C, D, Eb, F, G, A, Bb Compared to Cmaj tells me that its = 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7

Phrygian - stttstt C, Db, Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb = 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Lydian- tttstts C, D, E, F#, G, A, B = 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 (is that right? #4? Is that how you write that?)

Mixolydian - ttsttst C, D, E, F, G, A, Bb = 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

Locrian - sttsttt C, Db, Eb, F, Gb, Ab, Bb = 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7



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enforcer
post Feb 2 2009, 10:32 PM
Post #225


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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 2 2009, 11:06 PM) *
Play what?


Pick a note, for example D...

You should play 7 modes from the root D. Try to memorize how they sound like... I just try to familiarize you with the modal content, if it feels kinda silly just tell me laugh.gif



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incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


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Vigier G.V Wood HH
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Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
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Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
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Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
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jer
post Feb 2 2009, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE
You should play 7 modes from the root D. Try to memorize how they sound like... I just try to familiarize you with the modal content


I see.

Question 1 - Do you want me to start on the 6th string root all the time?

Question 2 - I am under the understanding that to "hear" what the flavor of each mode is, there needs to be a backing to play over. As thats how the modes work. Do you want me to play a Dmaj chord and then play each mode over the top of it in D? (is that how it would be done?)


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enforcer
post Feb 2 2009, 11:09 PM
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Ok, answer 1: you'll just need 3 strings to play a modal scale with 3 notes per string way. that means 6th and 5th string root choices will result in the same shape. Starting from 4th string, you'll need to shift your last pair of notes one fret up due to B string. Starting from 3rd string youll need to shift next 2 string shape one fret up etc... So its up to you...

2: You dont need a backing but you'll be able to understand which chord will fit which mode at the end of this session.

So you find out that:

Ionian 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Dorian 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7

Phrygian = 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Lydian = 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 (is that right? #4? Is that how you write that?)

Mixolydian = 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

Aeolian = 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7

Locrian = 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

Now what I want you to do is grouping together major ones and minor ones together. There is one with dim5. Which one is this?

(you are doing this great, actually basic music theory is easier than people think)


--------------------


incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


Spoiler:


Vigier G.V Wood HH
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Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
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jer
post Feb 3 2009, 04:31 AM
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Tonights grind.

smile.gif

Tarantella Rock - off to a good start. (I think) -30 BPM



AIC -30 BPM (75%) I cant tell if this is getting any better or not.



Trooper - All solo. HALF SPEED -80 bpm That second part is KILLING me. I sat there and tried and tried and tried to find what beat that run starts on. And with the GP file its somewhere between 2 beats. I'm really guessing where each time. No way thats the correct way to learn. Its gonna take me a while to get through this part. I need to be able to count into that and I just cant....

Hey, guess what I just discovered.... The camera wasnt running..... SWEAR WORD!!!!!!

I'm not setting everything back up for this. Not tonight. More on the trooper tomorrow night.

DANG.



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enforcer
post Feb 3 2009, 11:40 AM
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Yes buddy, you did this good. Tarantella has a nice start now.

For AIC, I though you were playing it nice with -15 bpm... You made mistakes thats why you slowed down the metronome?

Its a shame to find out that your camera wasnt working sad.gif Now as I cant see this I cant give you any suggestions... Maybe you just can isolate that part that gives you creeps and play it even slower until you can play all the solo with the same speed without much effort... Believe me there are only a few tricks on that solo, and they are things that you can use everywhere while making some improvisational stuff.

That was one of these nights, I believe, buddy. But surely this is because you got a lot of responsabilities at home now that you wife is out of town. We dont have much tonight but you'll do better, and I got an inside source who told me even if I dont get choosen for the next phase, these mentoring programs will continue if we choose to continue to do lessons... So we dont really have a time restriction. smile.gif

Cheers smile.gif


--------------------


incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


Spoiler:


Vigier G.V Wood HH
American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
Morley Bad Horsie Wah Pedal
Behringer FB1010 Floor Board



it, surely, spoiled me!!!


and may the force be with you :)
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jer
post Feb 3 2009, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE
For AIC, I though you were playing it nice with -15 bpm... You made mistakes thats why you slowed down the metronome?


I'm struggling to get the solo down correctly more than 2x in a row at -30 even. I find it very speedy. It doesnt sound that fast but to my hands it is. I'm going to try and get it down at -20 tonight.

QUOTE
Maybe you just can isolate that part that gives you creeps and play it even slower until you can play all the solo with the same speed without much effort...


Its that repeating run on the 2nd and 3rd strings.

CODE
       12  15  
14b


That bend comes and goes very fast and then youmove to the next string. That part is killing me. The big part is it doesnt seem to start on the beat. So going into it is very sloppy. That and it speeds up as it nears the end of the lick. I couldnt even get it down cleanly at 1/2 speed. More tonight.

Great news on the continuing. I really like working with you and I'd love to continue as long as you'll have me.

This post has been edited by jer: Feb 3 2009, 01:36 PM


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jer
post Feb 3 2009, 04:28 PM
Post #231


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I did a little practicing this morning. Nothing with video. My pc wasnt even on. Just running thru some stuff while the little one was having breakfast.



QUOTE
Ionian 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Dorian 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Phrygian = 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Lydian = 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7 (is that right? #4? Is that how you write that?)
Mixolydian = 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian = 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Locrian = 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

Now what I want you to do is grouping together major ones and minor ones together. There is one with dim5. Which one is this?


The dim5 one is Locrian. The oddball.

Major = Ionian. Lydian, Mixolydian
Minor = Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian

I decided this based on the 3 or b3. Is that correct?


--------------------
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Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist
Jackson DK2M
ESP LTD MH-400
ESP LTD EC-1000
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Handmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods)
Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp
Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor
Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor
Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard
Behringer Dualfex EX2200
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jer
post Feb 3 2009, 05:12 PM
Post #232


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Is this correct?

CODE
A Ionian    1 2 3 4 5 6 7   ttsttts
----------------
----------------
----------------
-----6---7------
--5----7----9---
--5----7----9---

A Dorian    1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7   tstttst
-----------------
-----------------
-----------------
--5----7---------
--5----7-----9---
--5----7--8------

A Phrygian   1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7  stttstt
-----------------
-----------------
-----------------
--5-----7--------
--5-----7--8-----
--5--6-----8-----

A Lydian    1 2 3 #4 5 6 7    tttstts
------------------
------------------
------------------
-----6---7--------
-----6---7----9---
--5------7----9---

A Mixolydian   1 2 3 4 5 6 b7  ttsttst
----------------
----------------
----------------
--5----7--------
--5----7----9---
--5----7----9---

A Aeolian  1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7  tsttstt
----------------
----------------
----------------
--5----7--------
--5----7---8----
--5----7---8----

A Locrian   1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7   sttsttt
-----------------
-----------------
-----------------
--5-------7------
--5----6-----8---
--5----6-----8---


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Jackson SL-1 USA Soloist
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Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp
Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor
Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor
Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard
Behringer Dualfex EX2200
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enforcer
post Feb 3 2009, 05:36 PM
Post #233


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Yeah Jer, these are totally correct. Now lets check out which chords we can build using the 1-3-5 and 7th notes... I'll do this as follows for ionian:

Ionian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
When you combine 1 3 5 7 you have a Maj7 chord.

1-) Try to name the chords which you can form by using the 1 3 5 7th degrees from the other modes...

2-) Try to group modes that has major and minor characteristics. There is one mode that has a diminished characteristic. Which one is this? (This is actually easier if you name the native chords for all the modes)


--------------------


incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


Spoiler:


Vigier G.V Wood HH
American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
Morley Bad Horsie Wah Pedal
Behringer FB1010 Floor Board



it, surely, spoiled me!!!


and may the force be with you :)
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jer
post Feb 3 2009, 05:46 PM
Post #234


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QUOTE
2-) Try to group modes that has major and minor characteristics. There is one mode that has a diminished characteristic. Which one is this? (This is actually easier if you name the native chords for all the modes)


I did this in a previous post.

The dim5 one is Locrian. The oddball.

Major = Ionian. Lydian, Mixolydian
Minor = Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian

I decided this based on the 3 or b3. Is that correct?

QUOTE
1-) Try to name the chords which you can form by using the 1 3 5 7th degrees from the other modes...


I dont follow this. I know for Aeolian it will be a Min7 chord. But I have no idea on the others.


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Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube Amp
Boss GT-10 Preamp/Effects Processor
Digitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects Processor
Behringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled Floorboard
Behringer Dualfex EX2200
Behinger Stereo EQ
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enforcer
post Feb 3 2009, 06:21 PM
Post #235


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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 3 2009, 06:46 PM) *
I did this in a previous post.

The dim5 one is Locrian. The oddball.

Major = Ionian. Lydian, Mixolydian
Minor = Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian

I decided this based on the 3 or b3. Is that correct?


Sorry buddy, I think I just missed it biggrin.gif

That is a correct assumption, you check if a scale is minor or major by checking the 3rd note on the scale.

QUOTE
I dont follow this. I know for Aeolian it will be a Min7 chord. But I have no idea on the others.



Ok lets take another example:

Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

you take the root. You add the 3rd, this is a major 3rd so you have a major 3rd interval with the root.

Second, you add the 5, and you have a major triad. Than you add 7th. In this case this is a minor 7th, b7 or a dominant 7th. When you add this you have a dominant 7th chord.

Lets suppose you have G for the root. When you add the 3rd 5th and dominant 7th you have a G7 chord (G dominant 7th)

And Aeolian has a Min7 chord, you are correct. Lets see why is that.

Aeolian: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7, so your chord will use the 1 b3 5 and b7. With 1 b3 5, you have a minor triad. When you add b7 to this you have a min7 chord. So native chord for aeolian is the min7 chord.

Got it?


--------------------


incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


Spoiler:


Vigier G.V Wood HH
American Stratocaster Maple Standart with X2N bridge pickups
Samwick Artist custom modified Baswood Lespaul with S.Duncan JB and N56 pickups
Self made Fretless Strat type made of Rosewood/Maple with self wound Neck and Ibanez V8 Bridge Pickups
Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
Behringer Composer Rack Compressor Expander
Morley Bad Horsie Wah Pedal
Behringer FB1010 Floor Board



it, surely, spoiled me!!!


and may the force be with you :)
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jer
post Feb 3 2009, 06:36 PM
Post #236


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QUOTE
Ok lets take another example:

Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

you take the root. You add the 3rd, this is a major 3rd so you have a major 3rd interval with the root.

Second, you add the 5, and you have a major triad.


I follow you this far.

QUOTE
Than you add 7th. In this case this is a minor 7th, b7 or a dominant 7th. When you add this you have a dominant 7th chord.


You are losing me here. I see b7. *minor 7th, b7 or a dominant 7th* is tha t3 names for the same thing?



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enforcer
post Feb 3 2009, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 3 2009, 07:36 PM) *
You are losing me here. I see b7. *minor 7th, b7 or a dominant 7th* is tha t3 names for the same thing?


Ok lets take this that way, as you are aware of this in western music you have 12 notes in total. Those are:

C C#/Db D D#/Eb E F F#/Gb G G#/Ab A A#/Bb B

When you play two notes together you have the notion of intervals:

Lets take C as the root

0 semitones - > C-C Unison (no interval)
1 semitones - > C-C# minor 2nd
2 semitones - > C-D major 2nd
3 semitones - > C-D# minor 3rd
4 semitones - > C-E major 3rd /diminished 4th
5 semitones - > C-F perfect 4th
6 semitones - > C-F# augmented 4th / diminished 5th
7 semitones - > C-G perfect 5th
8 semitones - > G-G# augmented 5th / minor 6th
9 semitones - > G-A major 6th
10 semitones - > G-A# dominant 7th / minor 7th
11 semitones - > G-B major 7th
12 semitones - > C-C octave

so you have these names for intervals. Lets check mixolydian:

you have

1 2 3 4 5 6 b7

so you have here:

root / major 2nd / minor 3rd / perfect 4th / perfect 5th / major 6th / minor 7th

minor 7th is also called dominant 7th.

Hope this cleared things a little. I am waiting for your questions about this.

and also in classical music notation you use numbers to imply these notes so:

b6 is a minor 6th b7 is a major 7th...


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jer
post Feb 3 2009, 06:58 PM
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I see. count the tones/semi tones to find the interval and name it after the interval. NOT THE NOTE.

yes?



QUOTE
Lets suppose you have G for the root. When you add the 3rd 5th and dominant 7th you have a G7 chord (G dominant 7th)


Since the 7th is also called a minor 7 why dont we call is Gm7? Is that because the 3rd is major? To be Gm7 it'd have to have a minor third?

multiple names for the same thing is very confusing.....


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post Feb 3 2009, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Feb 3 2009, 07:58 PM) *
I see. count the tones/semi tones to find the interval and name it after the interval. NOT THE NOTE.

yes?

Yes you are totally right. These names are not about the note but the intervals
QUOTE
Since the 7th is also called a minor 7 why dont we call is Gm7? Is that because the 3rd is major? To be Gm7 it'd have to have a minor third?

multiple names for the same thing is very confusing.....


No you cant say Gm7 because this would be actually 1 b3 5 b7, you are right thats because of the min3rd. The reason you call it G7 is the presence of major 3rd. When you have b3 and b7 you have Gmin7 or Gm7, if you have 3 and b7 you have a G7, and finally if you have a 3 and 7 you have a Gmaj7. Also, uncommon but, if you have a b3 and 7, you'll have a Gmin/maj7 chord laugh.gif

I know this must feel a little confusing but actually really it is not buddy. Notation differencies are due to classical music/jazz and popular music approach differencies.




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incoming spoiler read it at your own risk!


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Floor Pod 2.0 Amp Simulation System
Pod Xt Pro Rack Amp Simulation System
Digitech TSR 12 Rack Effect and Studio Reverb
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jer
post Feb 3 2009, 07:23 PM
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ok gotcha. On to the Aeolian one then.

QUOTE
Aeolian: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7, so your chord will use the 1 b3 5 and b7. With 1 b3 5, you have a minor triad. When you add b7 to this you have a min7 chord. So native chord for aeolian is the min7 chord.


I follow this except for the b7 again.

Lets use A for example. Why isnt this called "A minor dominant 7"?

do we just call it minor once if there are 2 minors in the chord?


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