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steve25
post Jan 8 2009, 03:36 PM
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Few quickies. First i'm using some software to learn notes by ear at first i'm doing key of A minor because it's pretty simple as i've known that key for a while so thought i'd start there. But i want some songs to start learning by ear nothing with too much speed because i'm not a quick player so any recommendations there? At the moment i'm trying Never For The Damned by Paradise Lost because a)it's fairly straight forward and b)there's not tab out there for it so i won't be tempted to cheat.

If you're trying to learn a song that's got a fast part in it how do you break that down to try and learn it by ear? And also should you learn some songs by ear and some by tab to make sure you don't lost motiviation or is this not a good thing?
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Jesse
post Jan 8 2009, 03:39 PM
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Ah! Good to train your ear! You can break a fast song down in segments, and then use SOFTWARE to slow it down, but to not change pitch. Not changing pitch means, that it still sounds the same. Free software =Audacity.

You can also try The amazing slow downer, yes, that is really its name!

And of course you can learn some songs by tab, I think 99% of us on GMC learned at least 2 songs by tab:D Or at least the majority of the song, what I usually do is use tab, and then when I think something' s wrong I find it out by ear.

I got this brilliant ear training software called EarMaster school 5. Download the demo, and if you like it buy it!


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Muris Varajic
post Jan 8 2009, 03:51 PM
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Slowing things down is pretty fine Steve, specially of it's something faster.
I would just add that very important thing is to sing,
sing the solo you're trying to learn,
singing will help your brain to visualizes things that you hear/sing,
it's all very connected and I'm sure that many will agree on this,
the more you sing the more you'll hear. smile.gif


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steve25
post Jan 8 2009, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jan 8 2009, 04:51 PM) *
Slowing things down is pretty fine Steve, specially of it's something faster.
I would just add that very important thing is to sing,
sing the solo you're trying to learn,
singing will help your brain to visualizes things that you hear/sing,
it's all very connected and I'm sure that many will agree on this,
the more you sing the more you'll hear. smile.gif


I can't sing a note in tune tongue.gif and i'm not sure i'd be able to sing in time with it either
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 8 2009, 03:59 PM
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Learning songs by ear is something really helpfull and important for every musician. This training will also develope your composing and improvising abilities.
You can start with easy stuff (I don't know your musical tastes) but every band/style has its easy compositions. You can just make a topic or ask me here the easy songs of "...." band and many users and me will help you.
When the things became more difficult you have to divide the song in smal parts... when I was starting to play the guitar I leaned the songs from cassetes.. so I had use the rewind function millions of time but nowadays you can use any audio editor like soundforge to divide and make loops to learn the songs.
Learning by ear and by tab are different things so you can do both. When you learn a song from a tab you are also training your ear but in onlly a rhytmic way.

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Muris Varajic
post Jan 8 2009, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Jan 8 2009, 03:54 PM) *
I can't sing a note in tune tongue.gif and i'm not sure i'd be able to sing in time with it either


That's only because you don't sing enough!!!!!!

Trust me, voice is just like any other instrument
but the only problem with us is that we are sometimes kind a shy to use it.
That's also normal but to break that barrier you can sing when you're alone,
in your room,relax and do it.
It takes time to practice but good thing is that you can practice it almost all the time,
even humming is fine! smile.gif

QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 8 2009, 03:59 PM) *
when I was starting to play the guitar I leaned the songs from cassetes.. so I had use the rewind function millions of time


I destroyed like 10 players that way, how about you Gabe? laugh.gif


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steve25
post Jan 8 2009, 04:05 PM
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I've always been told with a voice you need natural talent smile.gif. So you think people should use software to slow down fast parts? Is that not cheating a little bit?
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Muris Varajic
post Jan 8 2009, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Jan 8 2009, 04:05 PM) *
I've always been told with a voice you need natural talent smile.gif. So you think people should use software to slow down fast parts? Is that not cheating a little bit?


Nothing is cheating Steve as long as it helps you to learn more and to progress.
Is reading music sheets cheating?
No, but it helps you to read sheets better!!
Tabs are something different tho, much easier to figure out
and that's why you should use it when you really can't make a move without it.
As for talent, I still stay on my opinion, 99% is hard work, 1% is good motivation (call it a talent wink.gif )


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Ian Bushell
post Jan 8 2009, 04:16 PM
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Hay Steve!
Learning and working out by ear is a great idea for any musician.
The more you do it the better you'll get at it.

There's already been great advice here for that, what you can do to improve your voice is to hum or sing along with your scales. For example take the A natural minor play each note slowly and sing each note played on the guitar.
You can even do this when warming up for your practice session.

QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jan 8 2009, 05:09 PM) *
Nothing is cheating Steve as long as it helps you to learn more and to progress.
Is reading music sheets cheating?
No, but it helps you to read sheets better!!
Tabs are something different tho, much easier to figure out
and that's why you should use it when you really can't make a move without it.
As for talent, I still stay on my opinion, 99% is hard work, 1% is good motivation (call it a talent wink.gif )


This is a great post Muris!

Tab is also great when you have to learn alot of songs very quickly!
On that note...thank goodness for sheet music!!!

This post has been edited by Ian Bushell: Jan 8 2009, 04:18 PM


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Dreamcatcher
post Jan 8 2009, 04:17 PM
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I use Humming as Muris Said it works pretty good for me anyways and most singers that I have seen simply work hard at exersizing thier vocal chords by practice. I had never heard of the natural talent thing for singers ...but hey I'm not a singer either smile.gif . Using software to slow things down isnt cheating its technology and sometimes alows you to hear detail you didnt hear before.


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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 8 2009, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jan 8 2009, 12:03 PM) *
I destroyed like 10 players that way, how about you Gabe? laugh.gif




laugh.gif me too.. I used to learn Yngwie Malmsteen, Symphony X, Gilbert and Blues Saraceno songs so I had to destroy the players...


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Ian Bushell
post Jan 8 2009, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE (Gabriel Leopardi @ Jan 8 2009, 05:19 PM) *
laugh.gif me too.. I used to learn Yngwie Malmsteen, Symphony X, Gilbert and Blues Saraceno songs so I had to destroy the players...


haha those were the days!


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steve25
post Jan 8 2009, 04:39 PM
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Cheers for all the replies guys. Yeah it is really hard at first, well it is for me anyway i take ages just to find 1 note or 1 chord but i guess that comes with practice =]
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Gabriel Leopardi
post Jan 8 2009, 04:44 PM
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QUOTE (Ian Bushell @ Jan 8 2009, 12:23 PM) *
haha those were the days!



yeah!! smile.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Jan 8 2009, 08:55 PM
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How is ear training coming Steve?

Try singing scale in as many ways as possible. It helps if you play and then sing at the beginning until your vocal chords lock in note heights and distances. After you master this hearing melodies will be much more reachable.
Hearing chords is another matter as you have to listen chord progressions, hear the bass, recognize type of chords, always here where I chord is in chord progression etc


Let me know if you need any specific exercises, hope this info helps smile.gif


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steve25
post Jan 8 2009, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 8 2009, 09:55 PM) *
How is ear training coming Steve?

Try singing scale in as many ways as possible. It helps if you play and then sing at the beginning until your vocal chords lock in note heights and distances. After you master this hearing melodies will be much more reachable.
Hearing chords is another matter as you have to listen chord progressions, hear the bass, recognize type of chords, always here where I chord is in chord progression etc


Let me know if you need any specific exercises, hope this info helps smile.gif


Thanks. Yeah maybe some excercises would be useful. I can imagine why chords would be difficult. I guess you'd have to know the chord to identify it right?
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Pedja Simovic
post Jan 8 2009, 09:07 PM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Jan 8 2009, 08:58 PM) *
Thanks. Yeah maybe some excercises would be useful. I can imagine why chords would be difficult. I guess you'd have to know the chord to identify it right?



Exactly !!!

Let me type you some exercises in Guitar pro and post them here - how is that?



I choose C major scale but you can do all these exercises on any scale/mode/pentatonic/arpeggio etc.

First exercise is going up C major scale in 2 octaves and coming down.
That exercise is great warm up and will expand your vocal chords and range and set up your ear for more drills that will follow.

You should Play then Sing each note when you are starting with these exercises. After you get used to the sound you should just play FIRST NOTE and then sing all the rest without any checking! When you reach octave , play that note and see if you are on the pitch, sharp or flat. If you want to take it easier, Sing the pitch then Play it for every single note in the scale!

Exercise #2 is using C as pedal note and is great interval practice in major scale both ascending and descending. Again you apply tricks I mentioned above with playing and singing!

Exercise #3 is using sequence of 2 notes where you repeat every other note! This is great exercise to lock every single note from the scale in your ears and to learn diatonic intervals of seconds (major or minor).

Exercise #4 is using sequence of 3 notes where you always keep coming back to the first note in the group! This great, very melodic and is applied in lots of melodies in real music so its not just exercise smile.gif



Are these exercises enough to get you started?
I will track this topic , let me know how you are doing ok ?

Thanks

This post has been edited by Pedja Simovic: Jan 8 2009, 09:26 PM
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Exercise_1.gp5 ( 1.87K ) Number of downloads: 65
Attached File  Exercise_2.gp5 ( 1.84K ) Number of downloads: 60
Attached File  Exercise_3.gp5 ( 2.22K ) Number of downloads: 63
Attached File  Exercise_4.gp5 ( 3K ) Number of downloads: 56
 


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utak3r
post Jan 8 2009, 09:33 PM
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Singing a tune is really important, because you're hunting down those intervals in a song, you name it by your voice. Hearing it is one thing, but if you sing it, you almost have that note already smile.gif

Where to do it? While on my way to my job, I play CD really loud in my car and am singing then wink.gif nobody hear me there wink.gif I have some other problem - I can sing, but I have a bariton (or whatever it's called in English...) voice and most of my preferred singers do not wink.gif I have to transpose music in my head, at which I'm not good (yet).


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David Wallimann
post Jan 8 2009, 11:35 PM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Jan 8 2009, 09:36 AM) *
Few quickies. First i'm using some software to learn notes by ear at first i'm doing key of A minor because it's pretty simple as i've known that key for a while so thought i'd start there. But i want some songs to start learning by ear nothing with too much speed because i'm not a quick player so any recommendations there? At the moment i'm trying Never For The Damned by Paradise Lost because a)it's fairly straight forward and b)there's not tab out there for it so i won't be tempted to cheat.

If you're trying to learn a song that's got a fast part in it how do you break that down to try and learn it by ear? And also should you learn some songs by ear and some by tab to make sure you don't lost motiviation or is this not a good thing?


The quest for better pitch is indeed a beautiful journey with wonderful rewards at the end!
I would encourage you to pick up songs by ear as much as possible and use official tabs to check on your skills.
A good way to develop your ear is to work with intervals.
Pick a note, and play the interval you are working on.
Each one sounds different and knowing them will help you a lot while picking up songs.
Having a little song assigned to each interval will help, for example the pperfect 4th is the beggining of the classic wedding march...
Hope that helps!


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steve25
post Jan 8 2009, 11:56 PM
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Pedja, cheers for the excercises are these for vocals though or guitar? I think i ought to work on guitar before i work on vocals.

David: I'm not too good at intervals i mean i just can't understand it. Its an interval, of what? The note you're playing, the key? the chord?
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