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> Where's Our Civil Rights Going?!
FrankW
post Jan 14 2009, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (Duncan @ Jan 14 2009, 07:44 PM) *
I'm sorry but you can't justify the loss of innocent life.


You mean like all the Israeli lives taken, and the threat of constant terror as a result of indescriminate rocket attacks by HAMAS? Would you just sit back and allow your next door neighbor to take shots at your house and family on a daily basis? Or, would you go about eliminating the threat any way you possibly could to protect your family?
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ztevie
post Jan 14 2009, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE (utak3r @ Jan 14 2009, 07:48 PM) *
It's just as someone said it already - look at Ireland - they achieved quite a nice status after so long war... it's doable. It's tough, but it's possible.


Yeah, but the comparison is a bit different. First of all Ireland and England have pretty natural borders(it's sea). Then there are strong views in Israel that Palestine shouldn't have their own land(altough I remember Israael offered just that), and there are strong views in Palestine to not accept anything less but all of Israel as their land. Jerusalem is a real armtwister too... Imagine England and Ireland having the same Capitol City, and even claim the same part of that city, since it's sacred for both?
There are some real issues there that can't be solved peacefully, unless one side backs down and give up some major things...

This post has been edited by ztevie: Jan 14 2009, 08:39 PM


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Jan 14 2009, 09:56 PM
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QUOTE (FrankW @ Jan 14 2009, 07:27 PM) *
I'm simply responding to your outrageous claims. You throw out comments like the U.S. is destroying the world, and 9/11 probably was an inside job, and you expect that crap to go unchallenged? It's immature, outrageous, unfounded nonsense. Your opinion lacks no factual backup, you're buying into far left garbage about the U.S. being the bullies of the world, instead of sorting out facts from fiction. So yeah. when you stir up a hornets' nest, expect consequences. Quit acting like a baby.

You're older than me by a fair way and you act younger than me. You're dismissing scientific evidence and not even considering it a possibility that actually the events on 9/11 were impossible. How it happened. How the buildings fell. How the day was reported. There were inconsistencies in the whole day. But unfortunately you just seem to listen to what the government tells you. Which is fair enough if you like being close-minded. Open your mind to different possibilities.


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kahall
post Jan 15 2009, 02:08 AM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Jan 14 2009, 02:56 PM) *
[..]
You're dismissing scientific evidence and not even considering it a possibility that actually the events on 9/11 were impossible. [..]


Where is this scientific evidence you speak of? And please, not another link to some douchebags website.

And if it was an inside job why did Bin-Laden admit he was responsible.

Also what about this? How do you explain it? Huh? No really how?

And, If the hijacking and crashing of four passenger planes was engineered by the US government, then why did UA93 crash into an empty field in Pennsylvania? Why not crash it into a target which would add to the death toll on 9/11, and further inflame US public attitudes and popular demands for revenge against the supposed perpetrators?

And Finally, if the US government is institutionally ruthless enough to organise the massacre of thousands of its own citizens in a series of “false flag” attacks, then why is it too squeamish to arrange for the deaths of the supposed “truth-seekers” (David Griffin, Kevin Barrett, Steven Jones, Richard Gage, the Loose Change team, Alex Jones, etc.) who have exposed their complicity in one of the most heinous crimes a government can commit against its own people? Why are these people still alive and well, and in a position to publicise their “theories” on radio, television, in print and online?



QUOTE (jdriver @ Jan 14 2009, 01:30 PM) *
Are Unicorns endangered or extinct? wink.gif



LOL, sounds like they are just endangered but are trying to make a comeback and they will always be under a rainbow.


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Jan 15 2009, 02:18 AM
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QUOTE (kahall @ Jan 15 2009, 01:08 AM) *
And Finally, if the US government is institutionally ruthless enough to organise the massacre of thousands of its own citizens in a series of “false flag” attacks, then why is it too squeamish to arrange for the deaths of the supposed “truth-seekers” (David Griffin, Kevin Barrett, Steven Jones, Richard Gage, the Loose Change team, Alex Jones, etc.) who have exposed their complicity in one of the most heinous crimes a government can commit against its own people? Why are these people still alive and well, and in a position to publicise their “theories” on radio, television, in print and online?

I can't really answer properly now as I'm off to bed but the reason those people aren't killed is because their shows are very popular and if something happened to them that was dodgy then you know full well what people would do. I don't think the Government would risk killing people that are against them and millions of people clearly know that's the case. If they were to die in weird circumstances you can only imagine the uproar.

And plus I said I don't fully agree with US Government or those sort of people that spread conspiracies. I said I think the US Government aren't being completely truthful and the conspiracy theories aren't completely correct but both views have parts that are truth in my opinion.


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FrankW
post Jan 15 2009, 04:45 AM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ Jan 14 2009, 09:56 PM) *
You're older than me by a fair way and you act younger than me. You're dismissing scientific evidence and not even considering it a possibility that actually the events on 9/11 were impossible. How it happened. How the buildings fell. How the day was reported. There were inconsistencies in the whole day. But unfortunately you just seem to listen to what the government tells you. Which is fair enough if you like being close-minded. Open your mind to different possibilities.


Uhh, you have yourself a nice day.

This post has been edited by FrankW: Jan 15 2009, 05:29 AM
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skennington
post Jan 15 2009, 05:21 AM
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Guys, we all have our own opinions but the discussion is becoming a bit personal. Let's try to keep it as a discussion...


/skennington on behalf of the moderating team..


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enforcer
post Jan 15 2009, 05:35 AM
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QUOTE (skennington @ Jan 15 2009, 06:21 AM) *
Guys, we all have our own opinions but the discussion is becoming a bit personal. Let's try to keep it as a discussion...


/skennington on behalf of the moderating team..



Yeah buddies, I agree with that, we shall remember the name of the room we are making these discussion and we shall chill a bit biggrin.gif

Cheers laugh.gif


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utak3r
post Jan 15 2009, 08:41 AM
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QUOTE (kahall @ Jan 15 2009, 02:08 AM) *
And if it was an inside job why did Bin-Laden admit he was responsible.



while I'm not into this theory, I have to respond on THAT question - it's silly wink.gif you know, he did it or did not - it's a good thing for him to have people think he managed to do that, don't you agree? wink.gif


OC and FW - please stop, it's going nowhere... rolleyes.gif


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mjsteps
post Jan 15 2009, 09:11 AM
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So now that we have exhausted this discussion or at best see where each stands ( great that we can even have a discussion from all over the globe) is there really such thing as "peace "and if so what does it look like?
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MickeM
post Jan 15 2009, 09:39 AM
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QUOTE (utak3r @ Jan 15 2009, 08:41 AM) *
OC and FW - please stop, it's going nowhere... rolleyes.gif

Atleast we've learned how conflicts and war starts wink.gif


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Koopid
post Jan 15 2009, 10:10 AM
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QUOTE (FrankW @ Jan 14 2009, 08:33 PM) *
You mean like all the Israeli lives taken, and the threat of constant terror as a result of indescriminate rocket attacks by HAMAS? Would you just sit back and allow your next door neighbor to take shots at your house and family on a daily basis? Or, would you go about eliminating the threat any way you possibly could to protect your family?


So, if you kill my innocent son I have the right to kill your innocent son? Killing innocents is, in my opinion, not justfiable.. at *all*.

Taking your opinion to the extreme now. If a guy from Texas goes crazy and kills a lot of people in a school in Florida, is it OK for people from Florida to kill everyone in Texas to protect themselves?

It is not the fault of HAMAS that innocent people in Palestine gets killed, its the fault of Israel.

That said, I don't really have a side. Both Israel and Palestine are killing innocents and the fact that UN has labelled HAMAS terrorists does not justify Israel killing innocent Palestines. And HAMAS opinion that Israel occupies their land does not give them the right to kill innocents in Israel. That is my opinion.

And believing that US government is activelly responsible for 9/11 is just ridiculous (again, my opinion). One can debate if US is responsible (again, the person responsible is the one pulling the trigger) for it for acting world police, or politics and so on but that they actually planned it? sorry, that is ridiculous.


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Saoirse O'Shea
post Jan 15 2009, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE (utak3r @ Jan 14 2009, 02:30 PM) *
even better.... I'd suggest to close this thread before we go any further wink.gif


I tend to agree utak3r but unless it steps over the line - and it's pretty close as we've said, or unless the OP asks for it to be closed then o I'll leave it open (for now). In the interim - as has been said by several mods several times - keep it civil guys. Tony - for and on behalf of the moderating team


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OrganisedConfusi...
post Jan 15 2009, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE (FrankW @ Jan 15 2009, 03:45 AM) *
Uhh, you have yourself a nice day.

I will do. Thankyou very much. Heading off to my Government job now tongue.gif laugh.gif


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Ajmurrell
post Jan 15 2009, 01:36 PM
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Does OP mean "original poster"? In which case, I see no educational or positive effect of keeping this discussion open. Let's just accept that there are complicated issues in the world, that people have different views and opinions on these subjects and that a lot of these subjects can be very sensitive to some people.


QUOTE (tonymiro @ Jan 15 2009, 09:18 AM) *
I tend to agree utak3r but unless it steps over the line - and it's pretty close as we've said, or unless the OP asks for it to be closed then o I'll leave it open (for now). In the interim - as has been said by several mods several times - keep it civil guys. Tony - for and on behalf of the moderating team


And those were the final words /Micke obotmt

This post has been edited by MickeM: Jan 15 2009, 01:39 PM


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