2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Song Tempo, How to determine.
Toroso
post Jan 12 2009, 02:32 PM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 653
Joined: 26-August 08
From: Kingston, TN USA
Member No.: 5.779



This is a crazy question you will all laugh at, but here goes. rolleyes.gif

I am trying to determine the tempo for a song I want to cover. Trying to use one of those tap tempo programs. Now when I set my metronome to a certain BPM, it counts out the beats in quarter notes the way it is set. When I use this tap tempo proggy, should I tap on those quarter notes I hear in the hats, or tap on the beat of the bass drum?

Thanks for time and patience.


--------------------
Live well, and live often!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
utak3r
post Jan 12 2009, 02:36 PM
Post #2


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 553
Joined: 3-January 09
From: Szczecin, Poland
Member No.: 6.530



well, none of them wink.gif it's hard to tell, you should just tap wink.gif First catch a rythm so you can say is it 4/4 or another rythm and then listen to it and just tap to the music, and not to the drums. I can't explain it better.... oh, maybe someone will try smile.gif


--------------------
sooner or later... you will meet the undertaker...
utak3r.pl
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bogdan Radovic
post Jan 12 2009, 03:05 PM
Post #3


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



Well you need to tap as metronome clicks (4 clicks per bar is the default) ...If drums are playing quarter notes on hi hat cool , you can use them as guideline..You only need one bar of taps to determine the tempo..


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
David Wallimann
post Jan 12 2009, 03:24 PM
Post #4


Instructor
*

Group: Members
Posts: 4.565
Joined: 29-March 07
From: Fort Collins, CO
Member No.: 1.439



Yep, quarter notes are what you need. :-)


--------------------
www.youtube.com/Wallimann
www.davidwallimann.com
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Toroso
post Jan 12 2009, 04:02 PM
Post #5


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 653
Joined: 26-August 08
From: Kingston, TN USA
Member No.: 5.779



Thanks guys, I'll give it another go tonight.


--------------------
Live well, and live often!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
OrganisedConfusi...
post Jan 12 2009, 04:04 PM
Post #6


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 5.635
Joined: 29-November 07
From: Nottingham, UK
Member No.: 3.401



If you are putting a backing to a metronome in a programme then you should be able to hear if the metronome is in time. The drums should be on the beat everytime assuming it's in 4/4 time. So just tap the rhythm with your foot and each time you tap the drums should have a cymbal or bass drum hit. It should stay in time.


--------------------
Gear
Guitars:- Caparison Horus Snowcloud, Parker Nitefly M, Parker Nitefly SA, Gibson SG, Parker P10e, 40 Year Old Spanish Acoustic
Amps:- Framus Ruby Riot 2x12" stack
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Jan 12 2009, 06:37 PM
Post #7


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



Toroso,
This is probably way more complicated than you want, but if you have the program "transcribe" it is really easy to do this with the program. It is a very handy program for transcribing as well. You would just load the song into the program and then you actually tap the "b" on the keyboard along to the beat of the song and the computer computes it for you. Very complicated I know, but if you are in the market for some software this one would be handy. Otherwise the other suggestions you got would be way cheaper. laugh.gif

Monte
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 12 2009, 06:49 PM
Post #8


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



+ 1 on Transcriber - great software indeed smile.gif

You need quarter notes Toroso to determine the beat but the more you practice with metronome, more you will feel certain tempos.

Drummers do this every day - great ones wink.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Toroso
post Jan 12 2009, 07:01 PM
Post #9


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 653
Joined: 26-August 08
From: Kingston, TN USA
Member No.: 5.779



Yeah, I already have the Tap Tempo prog. Just click to the beat. I'm just so green that I have to ask these kind of questions to be sure. blink.gif Like what is the beat exactly??? LOL

What I am trying to do is determine the tempo of the song so that I can set up my DAW for laying out the loops and drum/bass tracks. If I change the project tempo after starting it kinda screws things up. sad.gif


--------------------
Live well, and live often!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Jan 12 2009, 07:29 PM
Post #10


Jazz Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 2.691
Joined: 1-October 08
From: Belgrade
Member No.: 6.012



QUOTE (Toroso @ Jan 12 2009, 08:01 PM) *
Yeah, I already have the Tap Tempo prog. Just click to the beat. I'm just so green that I have to ask these kind of questions to be sure. blink.gif Like what is the beat exactly??? LOL

What I am trying to do is determine the tempo of the song so that I can set up my DAW for laying out the loops and drum/bass tracks. If I change the project tempo after starting it kinda screws things up. sad.gif


Yeah, that is tricky! I think that Band-in-a-box has options for things like that. For example, it can rip out the harmony of the song(from mp3 file you provide), so I guess getting the tempo of the song would be piece of cake.
Basically what you want to achieve, is to get the same number of measures as original. Your track should end in the exact moment as original track. The most simple(and the most slow) way would be to count the number of measures of the original track, and then adjust the tempo of new track, so you get the same number of measures. If the track ends before the original, it is faster, so slow it down, if it ends later, it is to slow, speed it up. This could take a while, depends on your rhythm sense. Maybe you could post that song so we can determine it for you, it would be fun, I like this kind of musical games.

IF, you have Band-in-a-box, you can probably finish it faster.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Jan 12 2009, 09:44 PM
Post #11


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



QUOTE (Vasilije Vukmirovic @ Jan 12 2009, 07:29 PM) *
Yeah, that is tricky! I think that Band-in-a-box has options for things like that. For example, it can rip out the harmony of the song(from mp3 file you provide), so I guess getting the tempo of the song would be piece of cake.
Basically what you want to achieve, is to get the same number of measures as original. Your track should end in the exact moment as original track. The most simple(and the most slow) way would be to count the number of measures of the original track, and then adjust the tempo of new track, so you get the same number of measures. If the track ends before the original, it is faster, so slow it down, if it ends later, it is to slow, speed it up. This could take a while, depends on your rhythm sense. Maybe you could post that song so we can determine it for you, it would be fun, I like this kind of musical games.

IF, you have Band-in-a-box, you can probably finish it faster.

Duh, didn't even think about that. laugh.gif laugh.gif Toroso, If you post an MP3 of the song I can plug it into transcribe and tell you what the tempo is. Good call Vasilije!! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Monte
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ramiro Delforte
post Jan 12 2009, 10:26 PM
Post #12


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 2.279
Joined: 4-August 08
From: Argentina, Buenos Aires
Member No.: 5.625



You should think the "pulse" of the song as something that's underneath every song. Sometimes you feel like is more important to tap in the bass drum because that's where you feel the tempo fall.
That's pretty important, is not the same making a song that's in 4/4 with a feel in 2 or in 8. Joe Lovano (saxophone player) explain those things in his clinic, very cool stuff for phrasing.
Anyway, you should be able to hear that constant pulse that is in quarter notes everytime and play it over.


--------------------
Check out my Instructor Profile and Board

LIVE VIDEO CHATS EVERY MONDAY AROUND 22PM (GMC HOUR)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Emir Hot
post Jan 12 2009, 10:57 PM
Post #13


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 7.201
Joined: 14-July 08
From: London UK
Member No.: 5.490



When I do this I fisrt import the song in my recording software (Sonar in my case). Find the first beat of any 4/4 bar in the song. Align that beat with the program grid to match the first beat of a bar on the grid - number 1 (zoom a lot). Then I tap tempo for 10 sec and see what number is coming most often. Sonar has tap tempo tool. Then I set the tempo with that number and press play. When the bar counter starts to count it should always be number 1 on every first bar of your song. If after 10 seconds you notice the counter is going away of the song beat then you increase or decrease tempo by 1 until you find it. The accurate result will be when you press play and analyse 10 seconds of the begining, middle and the end of the song. If each of these tests show 1 on the bar counter and you hear they really match the first beats in your song then you got it. maybe I didn't explain it very nicely but if you read a couple of times I hope you can uderstand smile.gif


--------------------
Check out my <a href="https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/instructor/Emir-Hot" target="_blank">Instructor profile</a>

www.emirhot.com
www.myspace.com/emirhotguitar
www.myspace.com/sevdahmetal
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Jan 13 2009, 06:15 PM
Post #14


Jazz Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 2.691
Joined: 1-October 08
From: Belgrade
Member No.: 6.012



QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jan 12 2009, 11:57 PM) *
song. Align that beat with the program grid to match the first beat of a bar on the grid - number 1 (zoom a lot).


Yes, I think the zooming is good method here, you can actually "see" the tempo, and adjust it more precisely.

Actually, Band-in-a-box solution really works. Program determines average tempo and you get somethin like 145.5 bpm, very very precise(you also get the chords)

Here is what you need to do:
First, import the audio file...
Attached Image

then you will get somethin like this
Attached Image


perfect! I just tried it!

This post has been edited by Vasilije Vukmirovic: Jan 13 2009, 06:17 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 14 2009, 12:37 PM
Post #15


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



Very useful info Emir, thanks smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bogdan Radovic
post Jan 14 2009, 02:41 PM
Post #16


Bass & Beginner Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.612
Joined: 30-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.410



Very useful info Vasilije about the Band in a box software..Which version of it do you have ?


--------------------
For GMC support please email support (at) guitarmasterclass.net
Check out my lessons and my instructor board.
Check out my beginner guitar lessons course! ; Take a bass course now!
My solo and band songs : Keep Going On, Night Vibe, Kad Te Vidim, Susret, Plava Silueta
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Toroso
post Jan 14 2009, 02:55 PM
Post #17


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 653
Joined: 26-August 08
From: Kingston, TN USA
Member No.: 5.779



Thanks Emir and Vasilije smile.gif I'll see if Mixcraft will do something close.


--------------------
Live well, and live often!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Jan 15 2009, 01:52 AM
Post #18


Jazz Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 2.691
Joined: 1-October 08
From: Belgrade
Member No.: 6.012



QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Jan 14 2009, 03:41 PM) *
Very useful info Vasilije about the Band in a box software..Which version of it do you have ?


version 2008, I wouldn't know it myself if I didn't need to solve this. BB is much more analog-oriented now, but it's still killer for arranging.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 15 2009, 11:25 PM
Post #19


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



I use to use Band in a box like 3-4 years ago. Its great for just typing in harmony, choosing style and tempo, and it plays right back for you . Could be really cool backing track if you have nice VST's and feel like editing certain parts.

I use Loop station by Boss for my practicing so thats why I stopped using Band in a box , but either way I recommend it highly smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 16 2009, 12:11 PM
Post #20


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 25.396
Joined: 20-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.341



Thanks for the tip Vasilije. I use Band in a Box sometimes and didn't know all the functions it has.


--------------------
- Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons
- (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel
- Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 11th December 2017 - 06:36 AM