6 Pages V  « < 2 3 4 5 6 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Fusion Collaboration, Funk, Rock, Blues, Jazz, Shred - all welcome :)
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 16 2009, 07:03 PM
Post #61


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (Ajmurrell @ Jan 16 2009, 06:51 PM) *
Sounds great Pedja, some great idea's going on there smile.gif

I can improvise over the A minor and Cminor pentatonic areas (Ain't I amazing tongue.gif) but thats where it gets tricky! These are new scales to me, so its just a matter of learning how to make use of them melodically.


Thank you Adam, much appreciated smile.gif

This chord progression is tricky compared to all the other collaborations we had on GMC. That is why it will push your limits and I feel you guys will really notice improvement after this collaboration.


By the way, would it help if I did lesson on this exact same solo on GMC ?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Paiva
post Jan 16 2009, 07:56 PM
Post #62


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 218
Joined: 3-November 08
From: Lisbon, Portugal
Member No.: 6.182



QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 16 2009, 06:03 PM) *
Thank you Adam, much appreciated smile.gif

This chord progression is tricky compared to all the other collaborations we had on GMC. That is why it will push your limits and I feel you guys will really notice improvement after this collaboration.


By the way, would it help if I did lesson on this exact same solo on GMC ?



That would be cool maybe even a longer solo ( just a bit wink.gif )


--------------------
GEAR:


Guitars:
PRS SE Custom
Epiphone SG Special
Antonio Pinto de Carvalho Classical Guitar
Fender 12 strings
[/color]

Amp:
Epiphone Studio 10s combo
Fender Hot Rod Deluxe!!!!!!!!!!


Pedals:
Kork AX5G
Boss RC-2



2nd song :) Please go check it and post something ;) (again link below)


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 16 2009, 09:15 PM
Post #63


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (Paiva @ Jan 16 2009, 07:56 PM) *
That would be cool maybe even a longer solo ( just a bit wink.gif )


Definitely there will be this solo as lesson. As for longer I might divide the solo into difficulties and record 2 more types over same backing wink.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mandos
post Jan 16 2009, 11:47 PM
Post #64


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 509
Joined: 12-November 08
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Member No.: 6.234



Really nice Pedja. I especially liked the last part of the solo. smile.gif


--------------------
[color="#808080"]Guitars: Epiphone Les Paul Gothic with EMG 81 and 85, Crafter Acoustic, ESP LTD F-205
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 17 2009, 12:19 AM
Post #65


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (Mandos @ Jan 16 2009, 11:47 PM) *
Really nice Pedja. I especially liked the last part of the solo. smile.gif


Thank you Mandos smile.gif
Last part is really kind of playing that I like to do all the time - its very common in Jazz music for phrasing and scale choice. Unfortunately I couldn't just do that for the whole solo as the time frame was short, and I had to build into it somehow .
Glad you enjoyed it smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Jan 17 2009, 01:53 AM
Post #66


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



Pedja,
For the first 2 sections of the backing you say you can use natural minor and dorian modes. Is there a reason you couldn't use Phrygian as well? The way I think of the modes is that you have 3 major modes (Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian) although I know that Mixolydian is dominant 7 chord. Then you have 3 minor modes (Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian). I think of the Locrian mode as a diminished mode but I am not sure if that is a correct line of thinking. Am I wrong in thinking I can use the phrygian mode over a Min7 chord? Thanks. biggrin.gif

Monte
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 17 2009, 02:33 AM
Post #67


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jan 17 2009, 01:53 AM) *
Pedja,
For the first 2 sections of the backing you say you can use natural minor and dorian modes. Is there a reason you couldn't use Phrygian as well? The way I think of the modes is that you have 3 major modes (Ionian, Lydian and Mixolydian) although I know that Mixolydian is dominant 7 chord. Then you have 3 minor modes (Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian). I think of the Locrian mode as a diminished mode but I am not sure if that is a correct line of thinking. Am I wrong in thinking I can use the phrygian mode over a Min7 chord? Thanks. biggrin.gif

Monte



Monte you can use Phrygian sure , but I didn't recommend it here as harmony has constant structure in it (moving up in minor 3rd then up a tritone etc) . In Fusion music everything is possible. I just figured you guys are more used to using Aeolian and Dorian then Prhygian or Melodic minor scale nor Dorian #4 and Dorian b2 etc

So yeah , in theory anything can happen as long as the scale/mode has 1 b3 5 which is Minor triad in it from root of the scale smile.gif
The interesting part is to take all those scales and devices and make music with it - thats where it gets tricky a bit hehe

Good question tough I enjoyed it smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JamesT
post Jan 17 2009, 02:40 AM
Post #68


Accomplished Tone Master
*

Group: Members
Posts: 757
Joined: 12-April 08
From: USA, NV
Member No.: 4.872



Funny how we all think of modes differently. ...or at least maybe I think of them differently tongue.gif

For example, when I think of A-Dorian, I think of the key that it would have to be in which is G major (one f# in the scale). This probably goes back to my college days when I studied music theory on the Piano. I forgot, what it's called, but I think it's called the rule of sharps. When you look at the key signiature, you look at the last sharp noted then go 1/2 step up and that's the name of the key. In the key of G, there is only one sharp (f#). The A-Dorian scale only has one sharp (f#), therefore it's in the key of G.

during that same time period, I was also taking guitar lessons from a local pro (good player). He showed me all the modes, but described them as simply the seven related patterns on the guitar neck that when fit together are in the same key.

So using all this data, I then find all of the 7 modes (or note patterns) in G major and when playing in these patterns try to make sure that my licks or runs "resolve" to the 1,,3,5, or 7 of the A minor chord. This keeps it "Dorian". Resolving a phrase to these notes is the hard part for sure, but I do find that you can get away with not resolving a phrase to any particular note as long as it's in the right key.

That's probably not the right way to think about all this but it seems to work or at least my solos end up sounding like they fit into the chord progression. For this collab, I'm hoping to explore this concept a bit and somehow make it all work. It's going to be fun. biggrin.gif


--------------------


Check out my YouTube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 17 2009, 02:54 AM
Post #69


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (JamesT @ Jan 17 2009, 02:40 AM) *
Funny how we all think of modes differently. ...or at least maybe I think of them differently tongue.gif

For example, when I think of A-Dorian, I think of the key that it would have to be in which is G major (one f# in the scale). This probably goes back to my college days when I studied music theory on the Piano. I forgot, what it's called, but I think it's called the rule of sharps. When you look at the key signiature, you look at the last sharp noted then go 1/2 step up and that's the name of the key. In the key of G, there is only one sharp (f#). The A-Dorian scale only has one sharp (f#), therefore it's in the key of G.

during that same time period, I was also taking guitar lessons from a local pro (good player). He showed me all the modes, but described them as simply the seven related patterns on the guitar neck that when fit together are in the same key.

So using all this data, I then find all of the 7 modes (or note patterns) in G major and when playing in these patterns try to make sure that my licks or runs "resolve" to the 1,,3,5, or 7 of the A minor chord. This keeps it "Dorian".
Resolving a phrase to these notes is the hard part for sure, but I do find that you can get away with not resolving a phrase to any particular note as long as it's in the right key.

That's probably not the right way to think about all this but it seems to work or at least my solos end up sounding like they fit into the chord progression. For this collab, I'm hoping to explore this concept a bit and somehow make it all work. It's going to be fun. biggrin.gif



Everything until highlighted part was worrying me where you were going with that story smile.gif

Its perfectly OK to think of 7 patterns and relate modes to original major and/or minor scale. That I call first step as you obviously need to know scale of origin before you get to making music with it.
Now second step is isolating specific mode from the scale and studying it as scale itself. This is the part where you (after a while of practicing) forget that A dorian is G major but rather dorian mode on its own. The reason why you do that is because each mode has characteristic notes in it , cadences and ways of creating melodies within it !

So Dorian mode has 1 b3 5 b7 which is Minor 7th chord or just Minor chord (1 b3 5). But then it has a characteristic note which is major 6th (in case of A dorian that would be F# , C dorian A note etc).
By using characteristic note in your soloing you actually describe the sound of mode the best way - along with landing on chord notes of your chord thats played beneath smile.gif

I hope that makes sense.

I like it , we are on the same page here wink.gif

I am very excited about all of your takes guys. I might do couple more takes myself - beginner and a little bit more intermediate. I don't want anybody to think they have to play like Guthrie Govan or Scott Henderson over this. smile.gif

Edit : Typo smile.gif

This post has been edited by Pedja Simovic: Jan 19 2009, 01:08 PM


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lcsdds
post Jan 17 2009, 03:00 AM
Post #70


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 2.054
Joined: 2-September 08
Member No.: 5.825



QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 17 2009, 02:54 AM) *
I don't want anybody to think they have to play like Guthrie Govan or Scott Henderson over this. smile.gif

That's good cause I was thinking more like Vai or Satch playing a hollowbody!! laugh.gif laugh.gif I'm really excited about this collab. I have never even thought of ATTEMPTING fusion. I'm beginning to really love all the thinking and possibilites that seem to go with playin fusion.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 17 2009, 03:51 AM
Post #71


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jan 17 2009, 03:00 AM) *
That's good cause I was thinking more like Vai or Satch playing a hollowbody!! laugh.gif laugh.gif I'm really excited about this collab. I have never even thought of ATTEMPTING fusion. I'm beginning to really love all the thinking and possibilites that seem to go with playin fusion.

laugh.gif

I enjoy all styles of music but when I hear some awesome harmony with great melodic choices it really makes me smile smile.gif
So for me that Fusion and Jazz - anything in between that ads up to that .

Go for it Monte smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JamesT
post Jan 17 2009, 03:58 AM
Post #72


Accomplished Tone Master
*

Group: Members
Posts: 757
Joined: 12-April 08
From: USA, NV
Member No.: 4.872



Believe me, I'm very much a newbie at this. And you're going to be able to tell from my take when you hear it. I'm just trying to apply what I know and learn a few things along the way, that's all.


--------------------


Check out my YouTube Channel
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Slammer
post Jan 17 2009, 06:28 AM
Post #73


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 851
Joined: 26-April 07
From: The Sunshine State
Member No.: 1.688



Is it too late for me to join...

Sorry... I didn't notice this thread until right now unsure.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
wrk
post Jan 17 2009, 08:28 AM
Post #74


Learning Tone Seeker
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.027
Joined: 19-June 06
From: Paris/France (..used to be german)
Member No.: 723



QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 17 2009, 02:33 AM) *
Monte you can use Phrygian sure , but I didn't recommend it here as harmony has constant structure in it (moving up in minor 3rd then up a tritone etc) . ...

That sounds interesting Pedja, but i have a question .. i get that from Am7 -> Cm7 is a minor 3rd step, from Cm7 -> F#m7 is a tritone step, but why this leads to the conclusion that dorian or nat. minor is a better choice then phrygian?

Of course, dorian is a bit more obvious as the each cord is a normal minor 7 chord without extensions (b9), but what is this minor 3rd - tritone structure telling me. Is this a typical cadence or something like that?







--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 17 2009, 01:19 PM
Post #75


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (Slammer @ Jan 17 2009, 06:28 AM) *
Is it too late for me to join...

Sorry... I didn't notice this thread until right now unsure.gif


You still have time until 28th of January to submit your take.

I will put you down on the list now smile.gif

QUOTE (wrk @ Jan 17 2009, 08:28 AM) *
That sounds interesting Pedja, but i have a question .. i get that from Am7 -> Cm7 is a minor 3rd step, from Cm7 -> F#m7 is a tritone step, but why this leads to the conclusion that dorian or nat. minor is a better choice then phrygian?

Of course, dorian is a bit more obvious as the each cord is a normal minor 7 chord without extensions (b9), but what is this minor 3rd - tritone structure telling me. Is this a typical cadence or something like that?



Very good question Andy smile.gif

As I mentioned to Monte above, in theory you can really use anything. When I say anything I mean scales/modes that have 1 3 b5 in them which gives you minor triad. Thats why Aeolian, Dorian , Phrygian, Dorian #4, Dorianb2, Harmonic minor 1, Melodic Minor 1, Hungarian minor etc all are the scales that you can use over simple minor chord !

The reason I referenced to Aeolian and Dorian is simply because you will find examples of those scales in Fusion then Phrygian. Check out Mike Stern, John Scofield, Pat Metheny even Michael Brecker.


Don't worry about Minor 7th chord. You can play Harmonic and Melodic minor also over it , even tough you have Major 7th interval there. You just have to pull it off nicely and create interesting melodies with it.
In fact, I may record a solo with melodic minor to show you how it fits great over it !


As far as harmony goes, this is not a specific cadence per say, but I applied some Harmony and Theory rules I learned while ago regarding direct modulation and prepared modulation (at the end wink.gif


Hope that makes sense Andy smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sondre
post Jan 18 2009, 09:29 PM
Post #76


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 123
Joined: 12-June 08
From: Oslo, Norway
Member No.: 5.288



I'd like to join! smile.gif Have started jamming to the backing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 18 2009, 11:57 PM
Post #77


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (Sondre @ Jan 18 2009, 09:29 PM) *
I'd like to join! smile.gif Have started jamming to the backing.



You are in Sondre !

Have fun with the backing man wink.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Jan 19 2009, 12:42 AM
Post #78


Jazz Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 2.691
Joined: 1-October 08
From: Belgrade
Member No.: 6.012



I would like to participate

If there is a spot left, Pedja ?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Jan 19 2009, 12:43 AM
Post #79


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (Vasilije Vukmirovic @ Jan 19 2009, 12:42 AM) *
I would like to participate

If there is a spot left, Pedja ?



Sure Vasilije !

It will be nice to have another instructor with us smile.gif

I will put you down on the list. You have 9 days left to submit your take !


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Toroso
post Jan 19 2009, 05:20 PM
Post #80


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 653
Joined: 26-August 08
From: Kingston, TN USA
Member No.: 5.779



QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 13 2009, 04:05 PM) *
Next bar has G# dim7 or E7b9 with G# in the bass chord. Here you can play diminished 7 arpeggios from G#, B, D and F. If you are looking for ideal scale, here you can use A harmonic Minor starting from G# or E preferably smile.gif


Pedja, are you saying that we could use the intervals of the A harmonic Minor starting from G# or E? Like a mode? huh.gif


--------------------
Live well, and live often!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

6 Pages V  « < 2 3 4 5 6 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 22nd January 2017 - 11:17 AM