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> Alternate Picking, What is the advantage?
nowshido
post Jan 22 2009, 09:19 PM
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Before joining GMC I never really had any direction so I picked how I thought was most efficient. I believed how I was picking was alternate picking and didn't really know otherwise. After learning several lessons and reading the feedback and questions for each lesson I began to realize that my picking style was actually economy picking which is fine with me as I LOVE sweeping (5 string shapes are awesome thanks Pavel!). Anyways, alot of the lessons suggest alternate picking instead of economy picking. So my question. What is the advantage of EVERY stroke being UP and DOWN? For instance, Pavel's 3nps Ionian Speed Picking lesson. I naturally pick with a down stroke if I were to go from string 5 to 4 and with alternate picking that stroke would be UP. I think economy would be faster... What am I missing? I hope my question makes sense.

A side note, I love this site so much. Thank you GMC Instructors!!! I really appreciate all the work you guys put into every lesson!
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Marek Rojewski
post Jan 22 2009, 09:40 PM
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There are some situations when You can't do economy picking, or when it doesn't give any more speed. All in all, there is no better hand coordination than while alternate picking. You can't play only downstrokes because it is to slow, You can play economy picking, but it uses more "thinking" than alternate picking. If You master alternate picking, it will work in much more "automate" way than economy picking can work. I don't know how to explain it better, it is just that alternate picking will improve Your playing the most and will work in every situation.


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Jose Mena
post Jan 22 2009, 10:18 PM
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What Marek says makes perfect sense to me, to economy pick I had to retrain my brain, alternate on the other hand when you are going up down up down, that is all you have to worry about, and make it sound clean and accurate.

Having said that, economy and alternate have a totally different feel, a lick played in economy will never sound the same played with alternate, economy sounds more legato, alternate is more agressive.

In my opinion, doing both is a plus, you can combine techniques and create more dynamics in your solos, some advise against economy but I don't. I practice it as well, not as developed as my alternate, but allows me to play some licks that with alternate would be very hard.

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Eat-Sleep-andJam
post Jan 22 2009, 10:29 PM
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But just because Alternate Picking works in so many situations doesn't mean you shouldn't look into Economy.

Economy is going to give you a very smooth feel, and as Jose mentioned. It can bring new light to your dynamics.

I would be practicing them equally. I think it would make you more versatile if both are highly developed.

But that really depends on what kind of player you want to be.



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lcsdds
post Jan 22 2009, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE (nowshido @ Jan 22 2009, 09:19 PM) *
Before joining GMC I never really had any direction so I picked how I thought was most efficient. I believed how I was picking was alternate picking and didn't really know otherwise. After learning several lessons and reading the feedback and questions for each lesson I began to realize that my picking style was actually economy picking which is fine with me as I LOVE sweeping (5 string shapes are awesome thanks Pavel!). Anyways, alot of the lessons suggest alternate picking instead of economy picking. So my question. What is the advantage of EVERY stroke being UP and DOWN? For instance, Pavel's 3nps Ionian Speed Picking lesson. I naturally pick with a down stroke if I were to go from string 5 to 4 and with alternate picking that stroke would be UP. I think economy would be faster... What am I missing? I hope my question makes sense.

A side note, I love this site so much. Thank you GMC Instructors!!! I really appreciate all the work you guys put into every lesson!

I have struggled with this question for years. I finally decided to become an economy picker. I just love the patterns you can play with it and I am better at it that alternate. I am also much more of a legato player so the economy compliments that nicely. I have vowed to get some sort of picking chops this year. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif There is a book by Frank Gambale on economy picking that I would recommend if you are interested. I wish I had the alternate picking chops of Jose or Muris tho!! biggrin.gif
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nowshido
post Jan 22 2009, 11:21 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply! I guess I'll have to train myself to alternate pick and begin practicing both instead of exclusively using economy.
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Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Jan 23 2009, 12:06 AM
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Well, that's the general theory about picking, down up down up. There is a great player Frank Gambale who is by the way one of the best pickers in the world, o doesn't agree with that general notion, he doesn't changes strokes when he change the strings(scales). He says that you save lot of motion and energy by playing that way. But even he says that you still must know alternate picking(medium speed) if you want to use his techniques. Advantage of alternate picking is that always know where your accent is, and it's generally always on down stroke. TA ta ta TA ta ta TA ta, if you plays scales with that economy picking, accent sometimes shift, sometimes it's on up sometimes on downstroke. And by using alterante picking sound is far better, I usually play arpeggios with alternate picking, and the difference is huge, you can hear every note.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 23 2009, 12:09 AM
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Hey mate, welcome to GMC! smile.gif

Regarding picking, the more techniques you have under your belt, it would be easier for you to express yourself. This is some kind of general rule, but it doesn't always has to be like that. For example some players have developed sweep and economy so well that they use it all the time as their primary technique, like Gambale. Of course alternate is useful to know, and to practice, not just because of speed, but because you cover several different situations with the string transfers and one string picking. WHen you cover a lot of different combinations, improvising will become easier and your playing will sound more fluid. You can take one step at a time, and just start with some simple AP exercises. Do that in parallel with the economy, where you can and it will soon show in your playing.


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DaniHel
post Jan 23 2009, 12:14 AM
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When i was beggining to learn "alternate picking" i thought the "alternate" part was just playing up and down on the same string but when you changed string you´d do a downstroke so by mistake i learned economy picking lol.
Only realized much later that what i was doing wasn´t alternate picking but economy picking

I can do alternate picking as well but economy picking feels more like "home" to me since i started doing it when i started playing!

And welcome to GMC!

This post has been edited by DaniHel: Jan 23 2009, 12:14 AM


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Muris Varajic
post Jan 23 2009, 12:31 AM
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Everything has been said already, nothing to add,
practice hard!


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Emir Hot
post Jan 23 2009, 05:59 AM
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I can only say that the best is to learn both ways and you'll never have problems smile.gif As you progress you will start feeling what technique sounds better and you can apply appropriate one during playing, without thinking much about. If you are going for a fast kind of Paul Gilbert run then you will use alternate, and if you want more (softer) Eric Johnson feel when he does his awesome fast pentatonic phrasing then economy is the key.


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Toni Suominen
post Jan 23 2009, 11:40 PM
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I agree with what has been said here, learning them both would be the best choice. Both of them used in combination can sound very cool.

This post has been edited by Toni Suominen: Jan 23 2009, 11:40 PM


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Pedja Simovic
post Jan 24 2009, 02:54 PM
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Alternate + Economy + Sweep picking
I think thats what you need to work on regardless of your current level.

What kind of players do you enjoy listening to ?

In my experience I enjoy Economy sound more than alternate as its more pleasing to my ear. Alternate with distortion at fast tempo sounds like a helicopter to me smile.gif

Either way you should learn them all.
Definitely check out Frank Gambale and his instructional videos with books - very useful things for economy and sweep. For alternate all you have to do is start with up or down and the rest is history smile.gif


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lcsdds
post Jan 24 2009, 04:39 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jan 24 2009, 02:54 PM) *
Alternate + Economy + Sweep picking
I think thats what you need to work on regardless of your current level.

What kind of players do you enjoy listening to ?

In my experience I enjoy Economy sound more than alternate as its more pleasing to my ear. Alternate with distortion at fast tempo sounds like a helicopter to me smile.gif

Either way you should learn them all.
Definitely check out Frank Gambale and his instructional videos with books - very useful things for economy and sweep. For alternate all you have to do is start with up or down and the rest is history smile.gif

I agree with you Pedja. Economy sounds more pleasant to my ear as well. The book by Frank Gambale is really good source on this subject.

Monte
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Muris Varajic
post Jan 24 2009, 05:06 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jan 24 2009, 04:39 PM) *
I agree with you Pedja. Economy sounds more pleasant to my ear as well. The book by Frank Gambale is really good source on this subject.

Monte


I can see where this is going but no Monte,
you're NOT gonna get away from Alternate and Hybrid!! laugh.gif wink.gif


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lcsdds
post Jan 24 2009, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ Jan 24 2009, 05:06 PM) *
I can see where this is going but no Monte,
you're NOT gonna get away from Alternate and Hybrid!! laugh.gif wink.gif

Damn!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif But Pedja says its OK!! biggrin.gif
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Pedja Simovic
post Jan 25 2009, 02:15 AM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jan 24 2009, 05:40 PM) *
Damn!!! laugh.gif laugh.gif But Pedja says its OK!! biggrin.gif


laugh.gif laugh.gif biggrin.gif



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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jan 25 2009, 01:47 PM
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AP sounding like a helicopter is probably for players who are not experienced at playing AP. I've seen and heard a lot of great AP players that can control their tone so well that it can sound like a jet craft, not helicopter. wink.gif


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Ctodd
post Jan 26 2009, 09:29 PM
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ok I never understood alternate picking and economy picking until now... please let me know if this is right


E-------------------------5-----8----------------5----8---
B-------------5----8------------------5-----8------------
--------------U----D-----D------U-----U-----D----D----U



E----------------------5------8-----5---------------------5-------8------5------
B----------5-----8------------------------8-----5-----8-------------------------
-----------D-----U----D------U----D-------U----D-----U----D-------U------D


first one is economy and second one is alternate right. Now as I see it, there is a way to play the first lick with alternate picking, that wouldn't be terribly complex. But it doesn't seem that you can play the second lick with economy picking.

for the sake of being going into brutal details, how someone who uses economy picking play the second lick?

This post has been edited by Ctodd: Jan 26 2009, 09:33 PM


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utak3r
post Jan 26 2009, 09:48 PM
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Hm, if you put a few hammer-ons... wink.gif


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