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> Rock Ballad Style Collaboration - Video Comments, Emir's first student collaboration
Emir Hot
post Feb 1 2009, 10:04 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Feb 1 2009, 08:35 AM) *
That would be great!! Even if i'm dying for to hear your comments on my take, it will mean that "Emir's reality show" will be finished soon sad.gif ... now that you use special effects in your videos, each episode get better and better laugh.gif.
It is so interesting to hear your analysis and suggestions of each take.

I'm glad you didn't get hurt ... never thought a lamp can be that dangerous. Sorry for your carpet, but i was laughing out loud when i saw this laugh.gif .. this could have ended differently.


I hope this is not the last collaboration smile.gif There will be more episodes, hopefuly without accidents smile.gif

I will try to do the whole 3rd group today. You guys have been waiting long, sorry about that but this job really takes time. I need to hear everyone's take 6-7 times before I record. Then I need to record, transfer the video to computer, render for smaller file size and upload. Each video takes 40-60 min.


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wrk
post Feb 1 2009, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Feb 1 2009, 10:04 AM) *
I hope this is not the last collaboration smile.gif There will be more episodes, hopefuly without accidents smile.gif

I will try to do the whole 3rd group today. You guys have been waiting long, sorry about that but this job really takes time. I need to hear everyone's take 6-7 times before I record. Then I need to record, transfer the video to computer, render for smaller file size and upload. Each video takes 40-60 min.


Season 2 ? .. smile.gif .. i'm a series fan laugh.gif

I guess you want to finish this as well, but really take your time Emir, i can wait a couple of days, no problem at all.

I have listened to the final mix a few times and compared the sounds to some original uploads of takes. How do you improve the sound that much? Just with EQ or do you use some other plug-ins as well? When i use EQ i often don't know what to do as just playing with the values ... do you have any hints or strategies for mixing things like this?




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Emir Hot
post Feb 1 2009, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Feb 1 2009, 09:30 AM) *
Season 2 ? .. smile.gif .. i'm a series fan laugh.gif

I guess you want to finish this as well, but really take your time Emir, i can wait a couple of days, no problem at all.

I have listened to the final mix a few times and compared the sounds to some original uploads of takes. How do you improve the sound that much? Just with EQ or do you use some other plug-ins as well? When i use EQ i often don't know what to do as just playing with the values ... do you have any hints or strategies for mixing things like this?


Well, there are many things when it comes to mixing and mastering. First I need to make good frequencies for the guitar and fit it in the mix. When I am happy that everything has an acceptable balance and nothing stands out too much or opposite, then I export the track like that. This is the case for this collab, otherwise I would need to look back on every instrument like drums, bass etc... For this one I used the backing as it is. After I import that exported track into a fresh project and play with EQ, compressors and some stereo enhancers. The signal needs to hit 0db point without distorting the sound and the treshold from where I boost the signal is about -4db (assuming the track is exported with the signal between -6 and -3db). There are many tips and tricks for production. This one is not close to something professional that you hear on an original CD which is mastered in a proper studio and analysed on 10 different monitors and 100 different devices like HI-FI, car, TV etc... I mostly use my ear and play some original CDs to compare the sound with.


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wrk
post Feb 1 2009, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Feb 1 2009, 10:51 AM) *
Well, there are many things when it comes to mixing and mastering. First I need to make good frequencies for the guitar and fit it in the mix. When I am happy that everything has an acceptable balance and nothing stands out too much or opposite, then I export the track like that. This is the case for this collab, otherwise I would need to look back on every instrument like drums, bass etc... For this one I used the backing as it is. After I import that exported track into a fresh project and play with EQ, compressors and some stereo enhancers. The signal needs to hit 0db point without distorting the sound and the treshold from where I boost the signal is about -4db (assuming the track is exported with the signal between -6 and -3db). There are many tips and tricks for production. This one is not close to something professional that you hear on an original CD which is mastered in a proper studio and analysed on 10 different monitors and 100 different devices like HI-FI, car, TV etc... I mostly use my ear and play some original CDs to compare the sound with.


To compare with original CDs is a good idea maybe to "reset" the ears. I often have the problem when i try to mix something that my ears are not "fresh" anymore after a while. Result is, i like the mix in the moment, but when i come back to it a few hours later it is just horrible. This is maybe normal and will get better with more experiences.

The way you mixed and added a lot of quality to each take was making me understand why you asked to get a dry guitar track. My take was already with a lot of effects and should have served you only to give you an idea what i have had in mind. I should have added a 3rd complete dry take as well, which was not possible for this one as the enjoying delay was part of the sound patch and recorded like this. I already learned this now and will for sure integrate this the next time ..









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Emir Hot
post Feb 1 2009, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Feb 1 2009, 10:23 AM) *
To compare with original CDs is a good idea maybe to "reset" the ears. I often have the problem when i try to mix something that my ears are not "fresh" anymore after a while. Result is, i like the mix in the moment, but when i come back to it a few hours later it is just horrible. This is maybe normal and will get better with more experiences.

The way you mixed and added a lot of quality to each take was making me understand why you asked to get a dry guitar track. My take was already with a lot of effects and should have served you only to give you an idea what i have had in mind. I should have added a 3rd complete dry take as well, which was not possible for this one as the enjoying delay was part of the sound patch and recorded like this. I already learned this now and will for sure integrate this the next time ..


But you can listen to delay while playing but the delay doesn't need to be recorded. Use delay plugin in your insert channel in the software. Leave only distortion to be recorded from the POD or whatever you're using and put the delay plugin on "insert fx" in your track for recording. That way the delay works in realtime and you can hear it but it won't be recorded until you actually apply that effect to the take.


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wrk
post Feb 1 2009, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Feb 1 2009, 11:54 AM) *
But you can listen to delay while playing but the delay doesn't need to be recorded. Use delay plugin in your insert channel in the software. Leave only distortion to be recorded from the POD or whatever you're using and put the delay plugin on "insert fx" in your track for recording. That way the delay works in realtime and you can hear it but it won't be recorded until you actually apply that effect to the take.

This i definitely need to do. Yes, i use a POD. At the moment i record with GarageBand and the delay plug-in or effects in general are not really nice. I already have Logic, but didn't put enough time into it to do the switch. Mainly i want to spend my time to play and practice guitar, but now i'm motivated to improve my recording skills and setup.

Thanks for the help Emir smile.gif




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lcsdds
post Feb 1 2009, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE (wrk @ Feb 1 2009, 12:28 PM) *
Mainly i want to spend my time to play and practice guitar, but now i'm motivated to improve my recording skills and setup.

This has always been my problem. I always want to spend all the "guitar time" I do have on practicing but I am really starting to see that recording needs to be allotted some practice time as well. So little time and so many things to learn!! biggrin.gif
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Emir Hot
post Feb 1 2009, 12:54 PM
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But once you learn it it's really a piece of cake. You just need to do it once and you will never forget.


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wrk
post Feb 1 2009, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Feb 1 2009, 12:38 PM) *
This has always been my problem. I always want to spend all the "guitar time" I do have on practicing but I am really starting to see that recording needs to be allotted some practice time as well. So little time and so many things to learn!! biggrin.gif

Yes and it helps so much to improve on the guitar .. to try to play things more clean, more on time and to reduce effects to hear everything more detailed.

True, time is the problem now smile.gif .. i sometimes would like to open a "life history archive file" and update the years when i was 15-20 with a bit stronger practice routine laugh.gif




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ztevie
post Feb 1 2009, 01:47 PM
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Emir, just listened to my videocomments.
You're right, I'm aware of all the flaws you pointed out. I actually had one or two more I thought you'd point out, but if you didn't see them, I won't tell you, haha... biggrin.gif
I realize it's easy to rerecord and cut and paste, but I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned. I want to do everything in one take, otherwise I feel like I'm cheating...

The B flat note was not on purpose, and yes, it was kind of improvised. I had the structure of the solo pretty much ready in my mind, this faster run(which had the B flat) was improvised, and supposed to lead up to the bend on the 22nd fret(D note). I agree I should have re-recorded. It was supposed to be something like:

E ------------17-----------------------20-17-----17-20-22(bend)
B -17-20-22-----22-20-17-20-22--------22----------------

The out-of-tune A on the 6th string was supposed to have a heavy pinch harmonic with vibrato, but I lost grip of the string to make the pinch... dry.gif
The licks leading to this A, was Aminor pentatonic scale with some added notes. I often use notes that are not in the actual scale as "passing notes" to move within the scale- Sometimes it sounds bad, but this turned out pretty nice. I used these notes for the run together with bends, bluesy feeling?

E ----------------------------5-
B ------------------------5-8---
G -----------------5-7-8--------
D -----------5-6-7--------------
A -----5-6-7--------------------
E -5-8--------------------------

The last thing at the end was also improvised, leading up to G# at the 13th fret 3rd string. I missed, there was supposed to be a steady flow of 16ths...

Again, you've done a great and huge job with this collab. Respect!!

Next collab I will dedicate more time to get everything better, hopefully the wife will allow me some more time to spend with my guitar? rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by ztevie: Feb 1 2009, 01:51 PM


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Emir Hot
post Feb 1 2009, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (ztevie @ Feb 1 2009, 12:47 PM) *
Emir, just listened to my videocomments.
You're right, I'm aware of all the flaws you pointed out. I actually had one or two more I thought you'd point out, but if you didn't see them, I won't tell you, haha... biggrin.gif
I realize it's easy to rerecord and cut and paste, but I don't know, maybe I'm old fashioned. I want to do everything in one take, otherwise I feel like I'm cheating...

The B flat note was not on purpose, and yes, it was kind of improvised. I had the structure of the solo pretty much ready in my mind, this faster run(which had the B flat) was improvised, and supposed to lead up to the bend on the 22nd fret(D note). I agree I should have re-recorded. It was supposed to be something like:

E ------------17-----------------------20-17-----17-20-22(bend)
B -17-20-22-----22-20-17-20-22--------22----------------

The out-of-tune A on the 6th string was supposed to have a heavy pinch harmonic with vibrato, but I lost grip of the string to make the pinch... dry.gif
The licks leading to this A, was Aminor pentatonic scale with some added notes. I often use notes that are not in the actual scale as "passing notes" to move within the scale- Sometimes it sounds bad, but this turned out pretty nice. I used these notes for the run together with bends, bluesy feeling?

E ----------------------------5-
B ------------------------5-8---
G -----------------5-7-8--------
D -----------5-6-7--------------
A -----5-6-7--------------------
E -5-8--------------------------

The last thing at the end was also improvised, leading up to G# at the 13th fret 3rd string. I missed, there was supposed to be a steady flow of 16ths...

Again, you've done a great and huge job with this collab. Respect!!

Next collab I will dedicate more time to get everything better, hopefully the wife will allow me some more time to spend with my guitar? rolleyes.gif


I know almost exactly what you wanted to play but if I pointed out all of the "wrong ones" the response would be only about that smile.gif I wanted to have some time to give you compliments as well because I think you're a great rock player man. Well done for this. And yes, passing notes are good, I use them non stop, especially the one you tabed here.


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utak3r
post Feb 1 2009, 02:09 PM
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Emir, what do you use for EQ? I saw you have quite few points in it, it's really nice plugin smile.gif


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Velvet Roger
post Feb 1 2009, 02:11 PM
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Hi Emir,

Thank you for all the comments. I was perfectly aware myself of the fact that my entry was actually below my actual playing ability to be honest, however I was just too busy and lazy at the same time to spend another night recording for a much better take (I really should have done that though, as I should not be happy with an inferior take - big lesson learned here smile.gif).

I think your comments were all spot on:

- Sound: I wasn't happy with that either, but you don't wanna know what I had to do to even have it sound like this ... I don't even have the opportunity to select other cabinets etc until very recently. Good thing is that I now have the POD Studio UX2 so I can finally start working on some nice sounds for recording purposes. Am I correct that your biggest problem with the sound was the actual amount of reverb, thus loosing definition to the tone? Btw, I bought a book on how to record good guitar sounds/mixing etc, as I surely see a lack of knowledge on my part there smile.gif).

- Vibrato: This will be my main piece of practice for the forthcoming month. I am getting really sick of my vibrato (or lack of it), and your comment is just the limit. Many thanks for this, as I at a certain moment need someone to get me across a certain level of irritation on my own playing smile.gif

- Wrong scale notes: After Ivan pointed me out very clearly that I lacked fretboard knowledge during improvising at his last collab, I started working continuously on knowing not only the 5 pentatonic and 7 diatonic boxes, but also actually connecting them in real-time in order to do something useful with my guitar. Your collab, was definitely too early in order to see any effect on that practice, however I surely see a huge improvement on that in my jamsessions with my band etc. now. smile.gif. You mentioned wrong scale notes at the E7 chord at the end of the first section, however I actually changed the mode so it fitted inside the E7 chord (however either I made a mistake, or the little lick was executed so badly that you could not definite it even smile.gif).

- Licks: You are absolutely right about the connecting licks: they are just too simple to be functional. I guess what happened at the time of recording is that all the more intelligent licks were just blocked in my mind (often happening, as when I am recording somehow all my playing skills are dropping (even more with a video recording). I guess all this needs is loads of practice. Something I am also going to do for future collabs is just write out some interesting licks (even if I can't play them yet) and practice as long as neccesary to get them recordable.

All in all, you made me aware of a lot of things, and although it gives me currently quite a depressed feeling (hence this enormous reply to write it away:P), I will be turning this around in an enormous movitation (I always need a bit of time in order to accept/deal with more negative comments, that's just my character tongue.gif). Don't get me wrong: I would never want someone to tell me that my take was good, if it was actually wrong smile.gif.

You are the best Emir, thanks for all the hard work you have put into this!

Cheers
Roger

This post has been edited by Velvet Roger: Feb 1 2009, 02:13 PM


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Emir Hot
post Feb 1 2009, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE (utak3r @ Feb 1 2009, 01:09 PM) *
Emir, what do you use for EQ? I saw you have quite few points in it, it's really nice plugin smile.gif

See page 3 of this thread there is a screen shot. It comes with Sonar and works great. I have many others for mastering.

your video has just been uploaded


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utak3r
post Feb 1 2009, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Feb 1 2009, 02:12 PM) *
your video has just been uploaded


Just watched this smile.gif

Yeah, you're right about this vibrato thing, I could go more for this... right now I'm almost finished with a lesson from Carlos, which is just about this thing - playing slow notes with a feeling smile.gif so I'll remember this next time.
And the licks: slowly working on them... smile.gif
Thanks for your tips, you can bet I'll take them to my heart cool.gif


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Emir Hot
post Feb 1 2009, 02:40 PM
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QUOTE (Velvet Roger @ Feb 1 2009, 01:11 PM) *
Am I correct that your biggest problem with the sound was the actual amount of reverb, thus loosing definition to the tone? Btw, I bought a book on how to record good guitar sounds/mixing etc, as I surely see a lack of knowledge on my part there smile.gif).


Not only reverb but the frequency, too much in middle and starting to sound like a different instrument. Check Sondre's take, he had a great sound.

QUOTE
You mentioned wrong scale notes at the E7 chord at the end of the first section, however I actually changed the mode so it fitted inside the E7 chord (however either I made a mistake, or the little lick was executed so badly that you could not definite it even smile.gif).


This should have been E major scale with the b7th. So either E mixolidyan or E Phrygian Dominant (even better one for this part)

QUOTE
All in all, you made me aware of a lot of things, and although it gives me currently quite a depressed feeling (hence this enormous reply to write it away:P), I will be turning this around in an enormous movitation (I always need a bit of time in order to accept/deal with more negative comments, that's just my character tongue.gif). Don't get me wrong: I would never want someone to tell me that my take was good, if it was actually wrong smile.gif.


There is no need for depression. Just work more on that and you'll get there. I always give my honest oppinion and that's better than if I tell you that something was great but it actually wasn't. How would you know in that case what you have to work on? Every single take had some good and less good things about them. I am also very aware of my own weak points and I also have a lot of things to work on. It just needs time and everything will eventualy sit in the right place.

QUOTE (utak3r @ Feb 1 2009, 01:29 PM) *
Just watched this smile.gif

Yeah, you're right about this vibrato thing, I could go more for this... right now I'm almost finished with a lesson from Carlos, which is just about this thing - playing slow notes with a feeling smile.gif so I'll remember this next time.
And the licks: slowly working on them... smile.gif
Thanks for your tips, you can bet I'll take them to my heart cool.gif


Cool man smile.gif I would like to hear some cool licks next time. You had a very nice melody


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Velvet Roger
post Feb 1 2009, 02:55 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Feb 1 2009, 02:40 PM) *
There is no need for depression. Just work more on that and you'll get there. I always give my honest oppinion and that's better than if I tell you that something was great but it actually wasn't. How would you know in that case what you have to work on?


Of course I know that I should be not depressed, was just angry at myself at the time of writing my reply, that's all smile.gif. The only good opinion is an honest opinion for sure and I won't give up until I fix all the bad points of my playing smile.gif.


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Emir Hot
post Feb 1 2009, 07:18 PM
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Hi guys. 2 more to go smile.gif

kaznie_NL and SonofDestiny are on the way within the next hour.



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kaznie_NL
post Feb 1 2009, 07:23 PM
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Cool tongue.gif


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--- GEAR ---
Ibanez SA08LTD2 BAR
Vox AD50VT
Pod Farm
Line 6 Pod Studio GX
El Cheapo Strat
Dunlop Slide
Korg Toneworks AX5G
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SonofDestiny
post Feb 1 2009, 07:24 PM
Post #180


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Great work so far Emir! smile.gif I can't believe you put so much effort in this. Awesome, just awesome biggrin.gif


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