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> Would Like Some Guidance On Improving
steve25
post Feb 2 2009, 06:42 PM
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Hi guys, i was wondering if some of you would be able to help me out.

Last post about my playing i think was ear training. Since then, i have taken your advice and i've been using an eat training and interval training program which i think has improved my ear slightly and i'm learning songs by ear now. I managed to teach myself the rhythm part of Never For The Damned by Paradise Lost (still the lead parts to go but hey) so that's definetly an improvement. And as there are no tabs available for this song it was a perfect choice because i wouldn't have been tempted smile.gif. Now i'm starting to learn songs by Opeth and Killswitch Engage at te moment.

However i still struggle with everything else. The whole time i've been playing guitar i've never been able to write a song and i still can't. Any riffs i make sooner or later just get thrown away because they're not good enough. I fear that i'll never be able to because i just don't have the gift. The inspiration is there but that will never be good enough. And because i can't make a song all i'm really doing is developing riff ideas, which means my lead skills are also out the window. If i can't right a rhythm track then i'm unable to write a solo which means pretty much i've never written a solo, except for in collaborations.

I must find this harder than anyone else. Anything that i think isn't very good just goes at some point. Most people might be ok at first with writing ok stuff but i just can't do it because generally it just frustrates me. Any ideas how i can get better?
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fatb0t
post Feb 2 2009, 06:44 PM
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Do you play with people yet? I used to have these same issues and anxieties... Once I started to play with a band or even just one other musician things really started to take shape and I realized 'even I could' make music!
Also guitar playing has an intellectual counter part - have you read up on your basic theory? Knowing your theory will also help you figure out songs a lot easier wink.gif

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Matt23
post Feb 2 2009, 06:44 PM
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Well i'm afraid liek most things, practice is the only answer. You just need to keep writing until you start producing stuff you are happy with.
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steve25
post Feb 2 2009, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE (fatb0t @ Feb 2 2009, 07:44 PM) *
Do you play with people yet? I used to have these same issues and anxieties... Once I started to play with a band or even just one other musician things really started to take shape and I realized 'even I could' make music!
Also guitar playing has an intellectual counter part - have you read up on your basic theory? Knowing your theory will also help you figure out songs a lot easier wink.gif


Not really possible for me to play with other people right now. And yes i know a fair bit of theory but no idea how to apply it
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Saoirse O'Shea
post Feb 2 2009, 06:54 PM
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As you can't play with others at the mo Steve I'd suggest that you play over a variety of backing tracks- don't just play the established solo though, improvise and experiment. Record what you're doing and then listen to it critically to see what worked and what didn't, then from your theory knowledge work out why.

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fatb0t
post Feb 2 2009, 06:56 PM
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Could you tell me what your strong points in theory would be?
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Toni Suominen
post Feb 2 2009, 06:58 PM
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Inspiration is important, and learning songs by ear or from tabs can give you many new structure/riff/solo-ideas.

When you have a riff for your song and don't know how to continue from that, just take a moment and think how you would like to continue. Do you want another riff here? or maybe a solo-part? Developing riff ideas is very good, because when you have many riffs just waiting in your head, you can take them and structure them to a song.

So my advice would be to just keep learning new songs from your favourite bands (this helps you to learn more about song structures and it also develops your technique and gives you inspiration) and keep developing those riff ideas of yours. And for the soloing part, try creating some of your own rhythm parts that you wanna do some soloing over.

Remember, the most important aspect of becoming a better songwriter, is to just create new material and you will develop over time. smile.gif


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opeth.db
post Feb 2 2009, 06:58 PM
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I understand where your coming from but you have to start somewhere..

The riff you just throw away can be something. Just because you think they are not good enough you should at least try to work with them. You have to start something small and build upon it.

For me a good steady drum beat is a good way to get your creativity jump started. I use EZD with the Drumkit from hell addon. For the metal stuff smile.gif

The point is....
Don't throw out any of your ideas. You can eventually chain them together to come up with some great!



QUOTE (steve25 @ Feb 2 2009, 12:42 PM) *
Hi guys, i was wondering if some of you would be able to help me out.

Last post about my playing i think was ear training. Since then, i have taken your advice and i've been using an eat training and interval training program which i think has improved my ear slightly and i'm learning songs by ear now. I managed to teach myself the rhythm part of Never For The Damned by Paradise Lost (still the lead parts to go but hey) so that's definetly an improvement. And as there are no tabs available for this song it was a perfect choice because i wouldn't have been tempted smile.gif. Now i'm starting to learn songs by Opeth and Killswitch Engage at te moment.

However i still struggle with everything else. The whole time i've been playing guitar i've never been able to write a song and i still can't. Any riffs i make sooner or later just get thrown away because they're not good enough. I fear that i'll never be able to because i just don't have the gift. The inspiration is there but that will never be good enough. And because i can't make a song all i'm really doing is developing riff ideas, which means my lead skills are also out the window. If i can't right a rhythm track then i'm unable to write a solo which means pretty much i've never written a solo, except for in collaborations.

I must find this harder than anyone else. Anything that i think isn't very good just goes at some point. Most people might be ok at first with writing ok stuff but i just can't do it because generally it just frustrates me. Any ideas how i can get better?



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steve25
post Feb 2 2009, 07:16 PM
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Yeah, i guess.. I don't know it just all seems so confusing sad.gif. I've been playing guitar 3 years as of this month and that seems to be the only thing that hasn't got better
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berko
post Feb 2 2009, 07:33 PM
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As many have said already, songwriting and recording are also a matter of practice JUST LIKE techniques you learn on the guitar.

For me the first rule is that I never throw out anything. This does mean that a huge pile of crap grows over my head but at least I have loads of ideas to choose from. Btw I'm not sure what you mean by "poor ideas". I think 2 simple powerchords can sound fresh with a good tone or with unique phrasing on their own - and can sound even better applied at the right spot in the right song. Maybe what you mean by poor is that when you record it, it sounds sloppy or something. Or if you don't record it, maybe you have never finished it and isolated it as a patch or segment of an idea.

My advice would be to record your ideas and isolate them as a "part". A part on it's own can be "boring" but you can start from a more solid idea this way. You can apply different phrasings and some additional patches that somehow "reply" to the first one. If it sounds sloppy, then record it as many times as it takes to sound good. When doing so, you have already isolated a short idea to record it perfectly.

Check theory if you feel you need it. It's a bit easier to compose rhythm parts but you should know all the frets and notes on the bass strings to be more confident.

Hope this helps! cool.gif

This post has been edited by berko: Feb 2 2009, 07:34 PM


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Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Feb 2 2009, 07:46 PM
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Gift is a myth:)
Stick with it, relax and enjoy in what you already know!


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 2 2009, 07:54 PM
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David Walliman gave us a good site with some wisdoms about musicians, and there I've seen a cool statement by Michael Jackson. He said:" Lot of the songs you write are just exercise, pencil sharpeners." I think this says a lot about composing which basically is a learning process. Nobody can learn composing or have a talent and that's it. The songs that you have already made and you didn't like are not out of the window. It all adds to your overall experience, so I think doing a bad song has it's positive sides as well. Of course you loose some time, but you learn what "won't pass" for the next time.
So my suggestion is to cheer up, and just keep composing the songs, eventually you will become better and better and be able to write very good songs. Just take your time, and compose one song every once in a while. You don't need to do a technically demanding song, just start simple and go from there.


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Pedja Simovic
post Feb 2 2009, 08:00 PM
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I think you need to start composing riffs and melodies, add harmony and see where it takes you from there. If you really want to improve I recommend listening and analyzing your favorite style of music (or even bands and songs that you can listen to any time).
Also, it would be nice if you posted some of your riffs here on forum ! wink.gif


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steve25
post Feb 2 2009, 09:08 PM
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I can tell you if you like how i create riffs and try to put them into songs? Maybe that would give you a better idea of how i hear everything and how i try to make those into songs.

Pedja, as recorded or in guitar pro/tab format?
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Pedja Simovic
post Feb 2 2009, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Feb 2 2009, 09:08 PM) *
I can tell you if you like how i create riffs and try to put them into songs? Maybe that would give you a better idea of how i hear everything and how i try to make those into songs.

Pedja, as recorded or in guitar pro/tab format?


That would be useful info Steve !

I would like recorded guitar but you should also tab things in guitar pro as it will help you with rhythm skills wink.gif


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steve25
post Feb 2 2009, 10:42 PM
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Hmm well i've been thinking about this and now i've just realised, technically i have 0 riffs. I've tried to write something down in GP but i can't because i've thrown everything away and anything that i go to write down i think isn't good enough and comes back out. If i come up with something i like i'll post it here, you may be waiting a while though tongue.gif
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Jesse
post Feb 2 2009, 10:47 PM
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Hey! How would yuo feel, about uploading some takes of stuff that you DON'T like too much? We could see what your problem might be, personally, I dont think your having one but just a writers block!


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steve25
post Feb 2 2009, 10:55 PM
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It'll be a bit embarassing but ok i'll get working on it smile.gif
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Jesse
post Feb 2 2009, 10:58 PM
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Cool!1 Won't be embarrasing at all biggrin.gif It's brave, for anyone to show their music, because it's a piece of themselve.


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opeth.db
post Feb 3 2009, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE (steve25 @ Feb 2 2009, 04:55 PM) *
It'll be a bit embarassing but ok i'll get working on it smile.gif

Don't be embarrased here mate and don't be afraid to ask questions.

We are all family and here to help you become what you want to be. smile.gif


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