Reply to this topicStart new topic
> New Pups?
-Zion-
post Feb 3 2009, 02:39 PM
Post #1


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 713
Joined: 20-May 08
From: copenhagen
Member No.: 5.141



Hi Marcus

I've begun thinking about changing the pickups in my Les Paul, and watching your lesson on changing them, made me consider it even more.. your lesson was really awesome btw.. biggrin.gif

I have been playing for almost a year now, but i am not really happy about the sound i have at the moment.. I guess this is a constant struggle that most (all?) players have..

I was wondering if you could do some sound clips of your new Alnico II Pro pickup?? in the short sound test you made in the video they sounded quite awesome.. or maybe that wouldn't even make sense since you probably have the killer equipment that i dont have.. i dont know..

also, i am sitting with a Les Paul 1958 Custom Vintage Original Spec guitar, and a part of me is saying that it would be a sad or dumb thing to change the standard pups in it (some say it's blasfemy).. it's fitted with Burstbuckers now i believe.. (My Les Paul)

I am not so worried about the actual soldering as i have just made my own tube screamer which turned out pretty good.. (and by pretty good i mean it's working.. haha)

anyways, let me know your thoughts on this..
Thank you

edit: btw.. i play mostly (hard) rock, and blues..

This post has been edited by -Zion-: Feb 3 2009, 02:50 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ZakkWylde
post Feb 3 2009, 02:48 PM
Post #2


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 3.185
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Germany
Member No.: 2.164



*I know this is a request for Marcus, but I think we can also help him to find his tone...*


Ok your guitar is AWESOME!!! Those are the burstbuckers I and II, they have a low output for that vintage sound... what is it that you don't like about your sound and what sound do you want to achieve (tighter? Heavier? More Gain?) What styles of music do you want to play with your guitar?


--------------------


Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-Zion-
post Feb 3 2009, 03:00 PM
Post #3


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 713
Joined: 20-May 08
From: copenhagen
Member No.: 5.141



quick reply.. thanks.. smile.gif

and of course, inputs from others are very welcome as well.. smile.gif

Ya, the guitar is awesome, but i think the sound is a bit muddy.. maybe the burstbuckers are just too powerful, or maybe i am just setting my amp up badly.. i dont know..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ZakkWylde
post Feb 3 2009, 03:14 PM
Post #4


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 3.185
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Germany
Member No.: 2.164



If you managed to built a tubescreamer then changing pickups is a piece of cake for you!

QUOTE (-Zion- @ Feb 3 2009, 03:00 PM) *
quick reply.. thanks.. smile.gif

and of course, inputs from others are very welcome as well.. smile.gif

Ya, the guitar is awesome, but i think the sound is a bit muddy.. maybe the burstbuckers are just too powerful, or maybe i am just setting my amp up badly.. i dont know..



The burstbuckers are propably not powerfull enough!!! The burstbucker III or the Burstbucker Pro have a lot more outout, and even they are just medium output pickups! Your pickups are extremly low output humbuckers which makes them sound very loose, as they are not compressed in any way. I bet they sound awesome in clean mode but they tend to get muddy when using more gain...Am I right? Well anyways...here is my advice:

1. Most of your sound comes from your amp and maybe it's your amp that makes the guitar sound muddy (dunno what amp you have) Problem is easily solved: take your Les Paul to a store and play it through a real expensive high quality amp of your choice; if you still don't get your desired tone, then it's the pickups for sure!!!!

2. Tell us what styles of music you play so we might suggest you some pickups for replacing your old ones... for example the mentioned Seymour Duncan Alnico II pro humbuckers; they have about the same output as your burstbuckers, but they sound more focused and have more attack; very versitaile, great for blues, rock and hardrock (they are GnR's Slash favourite pickups and they work wonders in Les Pauls-Smooth sustain!!!)
BUT if you're into Metal and stuff, those Alnico II's won't do it for you...you get the picture... We need your playing styles and the sound you're after


--------------------


Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-Zion-
post Feb 3 2009, 03:28 PM
Post #5


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 713
Joined: 20-May 08
From: copenhagen
Member No.: 5.141



QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Feb 3 2009, 03:14 PM) *
If you managed to built a tubescreamer then changing pickups is a piece of cake for you!

The burstbuckers are propably not powerfull enough!!! The burstbucker III or the Burstbucker Pro have a lot more outout, and even they are just medium output pickups! Your pickups are extremly low output humbuckers which makes them sound very loose, as they are not compressed in any way. I bet they sound awesome in clean mode but they tend to get muddy when using more gain...Am I right?


Indeed you are right.. all the way.. i cannot get this sexy hard rock distorted sound.. it almost always turn into mud..

QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Feb 3 2009, 03:14 PM) *
Well anyways...here is my advice:

1. Most of your sound comes from your amp and maybe it's your amp that makes the guitar sound muddy (dunno what amp you have) Problem is easily solved: take your Les Paul to a store and play it through a real expensive high quality amp of your choice; if you still don't get your desired tone, then it's the pickups for sure!!!!

2. Tell us what styles of music you play so we might suggest you some pickups for replacing your old ones... for example the mentioned Seymour Duncan Alnico II pro humbuckers; they have about the same output as your burstbuckers, but they sound more focused and have more attack; very versitaile, great for blues, rock and hardrock (they are GnR's Slash favourite pickups and they work wonders in Les Pauls-Smooth sustain!!!)
BUT if you're into Metal and stuff, those Alnico II's won't do it for you...you get the picture... We need your playing styles and the sound you're after


1. that might be an idea.. however, even the 100w marshall (not sure which model though) amp which i use for for band practice can turn it into mud.. my own amp is a vox vr30 i believe, which isn't really good either..

2. i play a lot of old rock / hard rock.. the bands set list for the moment contains "Smoke on the water" and "born to be wild" kind of stuff, and even "sweet child o mine".

a lot of powerchords, soloing and also some clean chorus type stuff, but as you know i mostly (if only) have problems with powerchords and such..

This post has been edited by -Zion-: Feb 3 2009, 03:29 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ZakkWylde
post Feb 3 2009, 03:39 PM
Post #6


Learning Tone Master
Group Icon

Group: MVC
Posts: 3.185
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Germany
Member No.: 2.164



Looks like the Alnico II Pro set is just a perfect fit for you!! Make yourself a picture and try them out if possible (almost every guitar store carrys a Slash signature Les Paul so it's easy to try out the pickups in a Les Paul; both the Gibson and Epiphone Slash signature's are loaded with Alnico II Pros)

Oh and please don't be offended but as your are only playing for a year, a part of the muddy sound might just be your playing, because you still lack the experience in guitar playing...


--------------------


Gear:
- Jackson USA Select KV2 King V with EMG 81/85
- Gibson Les Paul Custom Arctic White with EMG 81/85
- Ibanez Rg 8527 J Custom 7-String with DiMarzio Evolution and Air Norton

- Peavey 6505+ head with Marshall 1960AV 4x12 cab
- Peavey Vypyr 30 Practice Amp
- Dunlop Crybaby From Hell, Maxon OD808, Boss TU-2, MXR CarbonCopy, ISP Decimator, MXR Custom Audio Electronics Booster

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-Zion-
post Feb 3 2009, 05:16 PM
Post #7


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 713
Joined: 20-May 08
From: copenhagen
Member No.: 5.141



QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Feb 3 2009, 03:39 PM) *
Looks like the Alnico II Pro set is just a perfect fit for you!! Make yourself a picture and try them out if possible (almost every guitar store carrys a Slash signature Les Paul so it's easy to try out the pickups in a Les Paul; both the Gibson and Epiphone Slash signature's are loaded with Alnico II Pros)

Oh and please don't be offended but as your are only playing for a year, a part of the muddy sound might just be your playing, because you still lack the experience in guitar playing...

no doubt you are right about that, since i'm still not too good at muting yet, but it just seems too much.. i guess i'll find out if i try out the slash signatures..

Thank you so much for you help so far..
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marcus Siepen
post Feb 4 2009, 07:01 PM
Post #8


Instructor (Blind Guardian)
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 3.433
Joined: 5-March 08
From: Germany
Member No.: 4.464



First of all, awesome guitar smile.gif It is equipped with Burstbuckers I and II, which are not really designed for high gain sounds, still they can sound really great even for very heavy sounds. I am using the same pickups in 2 of my Les Pauls and those guitars can really rock when I play them through my Rectifier. Since you say you are mostly playing Hard Rock/Blues type music, the pickups should work fine for you, but of course there is nothing forbidding you to change them and try some different ones (there were some people screaming blasphemy when I put in EMG 81 pickups in some of my Les Pauls smile.gif But the screams immediately drowned in this massive wall of sound that those guitars fired at those guys wink.gif )
About the Alnico II Pro pickups, as Zakk already said they don't really have more output compared to the Burstbuckers, but they are a bit more focused, so for distorted rhythm play they really sound a bit more compressed and focused, so they might be a good choice for you, since the sound of your guitar would not change that drastically. Yes, I can record some soundsamples for you and post them here tomorrow, aside from that I am also just working on a new lesson which I will record with that guitar, so you can hear more sounds like that. And about the equipment that I am using here to record my stuff, it is only my guitar played through Guitar Rig 3 (you can even download some of my presets if you want to check them out with your guitar), thats it, no fance high end amps.


--------------------
Guitars: various Gibson Les Pauls / Gibson J 45
Amps: Mesa Boogie Tripple Rectifier / Triaxis / 2:90 Poweramp / Rectocabs
Effects: Rocktron Intellifex / Rocktron Xpression
Homepage: www.marcussiepen.com www.blind-guardian.com
Check out my video lessons!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-Zion-
post Feb 4 2009, 10:08 PM
Post #9


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 713
Joined: 20-May 08
From: copenhagen
Member No.: 5.141



QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Feb 4 2009, 07:01 PM) *
First of all, awesome guitar smile.gif It is equipped with Burstbuckers I and II, which are not really designed for high gain sounds, still they can sound really great even for very heavy sounds. I am using the same pickups in 2 of my Les Pauls and those guitars can really rock when I play them through my Rectifier. Since you say you are mostly playing Hard Rock/Blues type music, the pickups should work fine for you, but of course there is nothing forbidding you to change them and try some different ones (there were some people screaming blasphemy when I put in EMG 81 pickups in some of my Les Pauls smile.gif But the screams immediately drowned in this massive wall of sound that those guitars fired at those guys wink.gif )
About the Alnico II Pro pickups, as Zakk already said they don't really have more output compared to the Burstbuckers, but they are a bit more focused, so for distorted rhythm play they really sound a bit more compressed and focused, so they might be a good choice for you, since the sound of your guitar would not change that drastically. Yes, I can record some soundsamples for you and post them here tomorrow, aside from that I am also just working on a new lesson which I will record with that guitar, so you can hear more sounds like that. And about the equipment that I am using here to record my stuff, it is only my guitar played through Guitar Rig 3 (you can even download some of my presets if you want to check them out with your guitar), thats it, no fance high end amps.

Thanks for you reply.. much appreciated..

And once again thanks.. It really is an awesome guitar.. i am just having loads of problems getting it to sound good with distortion when doing rhythm stuff..

Sound clips would be awesome.. doesn't have to be anything major.. just show the pickups off a little.. wink.gif

anyways, while i am still considering changing the pickups, i have decided to go through the wiring of the guitar to begin with.. there are loads of people talking about some sort of "Treble Bleed" or "Volume Bleed" modification, which should make the muddy sound somewhat disappear..

i have no idea what "Guitar Rig" is, so that would be of no use to me.. unless it's cheap and i can go get it.. laugh.gif

thanks again.. smile.gif

edit: okay.. the guitar rig 3 looks awesome, but alas.. tooo expensive.. phew.. sad.gif

This post has been edited by -Zion-: Feb 4 2009, 10:34 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marcus Siepen
post Feb 5 2009, 01:48 PM
Post #10


Instructor (Blind Guardian)
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 3.433
Joined: 5-March 08
From: Germany
Member No.: 4.464



Treble Bleed or volume bleed? Never heard of that, what is it supposed to do? I just recorded 3 short soundclips with those pickups, hope they can give you an impression about their sound.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  file_1.mp3 ( 437.99K ) Number of downloads: 173
Attached File  file_2.mp3 ( 300.85K ) Number of downloads: 135
Attached File  file_3.mp3 ( 304.93K ) Number of downloads: 133
 


--------------------
Guitars: various Gibson Les Pauls / Gibson J 45
Amps: Mesa Boogie Tripple Rectifier / Triaxis / 2:90 Poweramp / Rectocabs
Effects: Rocktron Intellifex / Rocktron Xpression
Homepage: www.marcussiepen.com www.blind-guardian.com
Check out my video lessons!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-Zion-
post Feb 5 2009, 03:19 PM
Post #11


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 713
Joined: 20-May 08
From: copenhagen
Member No.: 5.141



QUOTE (Marcus Siepen @ Feb 5 2009, 01:48 PM) *
Treble Bleed or volume bleed? Never heard of that, what is it supposed to do? I just recorded 3 short soundclips with those pickups, hope they can give you an impression about their sound.


thank you very much.. it's *greatly* appreciated that you are willing to do this for me.. it sounds awesome.. if i'm not happy after the modifications those pickups are the ones i am going to test first.. thank you..

Well, i dont know exactly how the treble/volume bleed kit is working, but apparently adding a few components to the wiring should apparently help a great deal..

from what i understand, when you turn the volume up and down, the treble is also being turned up and down, but in an unnatural fashion, which means that you will have a lot of bass, but the treble has not followed the same linear fashion.. adding the volume/treble bleed thing should make the treble more linear..

I have also ordered some new capacitors which should also *greatly* improve the sound on the guitar.. no matter what pickups being used.. Apparently the BumbleBee's in the reissue custom guitars are "fakes", so replacing them with "real" ones changes the sound to the better..

Here's the treble/volume bleed kit
Here's the caps that are to replace the fake bumblebees (it's not exactly those, but something similar)

Maybe i should try and record my guitar both before and after the modifications so you can hear the differences..

This post has been edited by -Zion-: Feb 5 2009, 03:20 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marcus Siepen
post Feb 5 2009, 04:17 PM
Post #12


Instructor (Blind Guardian)
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 3.433
Joined: 5-March 08
From: Germany
Member No.: 4.464



Thanks for the links, I think this volume bleeding kit is something that I have actually here at home, Slash's signature Gold Top comes with something like that. I have to say that I don't see that much of a difference comparing the Slash gold Top to my Limited Edition Standard, but I also have to say that I normally play with the volume control fully open wink.gif And yes, record something for us before and after you modify it, like this we can get an impression about the effect.


--------------------
Guitars: various Gibson Les Pauls / Gibson J 45
Amps: Mesa Boogie Tripple Rectifier / Triaxis / 2:90 Poweramp / Rectocabs
Effects: Rocktron Intellifex / Rocktron Xpression
Homepage: www.marcussiepen.com www.blind-guardian.com
Check out my video lessons!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
-Zion-
post Mar 6 2009, 08:25 AM
Post #13


Learning Roadie
*

Group: Members
Posts: 713
Joined: 20-May 08
From: copenhagen
Member No.: 5.141



okay.. a little update..

I replaced, what apparently is, the "fake" bumblebees in my guitar.. and added the "treble bleed" modification.. i must say that the sound was different.. better actually.. (attachment shows "fake" bumblebees)

however, something funny happened with my pots.. it seemed that going from 0-1 on the volume knob, nothing happened.. going from 1-2 the sound exploded and went up to 90%.. from 2-9 it was still just at 90%.. and from 9-10 it went up to 100%.. same for tone..

although i dont play around with my knobs *that* much i found it extremely annoying..

i decided to replace the pots too.. the pots i put in were extremely low tolerance.. 5% or something like that (while the standards are 15-20%).. Better than before.. but there were still a big jump in volume going from 1-2.. not as big as before but too much for me to "live" with..

i then decided to try and remove the "treble bleed" modification and instead rewire the guitar from what they call "Modern" wiring to "50s wiring".. and this seemed to do the trick.. i believe the "treble bleeds" caused the issue with the volume.. but changing the wiring helped a lot.. so this is how it is now..

i did record my guitar before the change.. i recorded in reaper but apparently i didn't save the actual reaper project, so i have to browse through the 1000s of .wav files.. i am not sure i will find them..

While i am happy with the way this little project turned out.. the difference is definately hearable, i am still not 100% happy with the sound.. i cant seem to get that "clean" distorted sound and i am still wondering whether or not i should go with these alnico II pro pickups..

edit: overall though.. i have certainly boosted my confidence in regards to wiring a guitar and changing caps/pots.. i now have a more in depth knowledge of my guitar.. smile.gif

edit 2:
btw.. do you know if there is any tone difference between a nickel plate covered pickup and a pickup without plate covering (like the ones you installed)?

This post has been edited by -Zion-: Mar 6 2009, 08:35 AM
Attached image(s)
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marcus Siepen
post Mar 19 2009, 12:29 PM
Post #14


Instructor (Blind Guardian)
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 3.433
Joined: 5-March 08
From: Germany
Member No.: 4.464



There is supposed to be a difference, yes, uncovered pickups are supposed to sound more open, while nickle plated ones and specially golden ones are supposed to be a bit more muddy, I don't really agree with this though.


--------------------
Guitars: various Gibson Les Pauls / Gibson J 45
Amps: Mesa Boogie Tripple Rectifier / Triaxis / 2:90 Poweramp / Rectocabs
Effects: Rocktron Intellifex / Rocktron Xpression
Homepage: www.marcussiepen.com www.blind-guardian.com
Check out my video lessons!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd May 2017 - 11:55 AM