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> Solo Theory, Click here Muris :P <--
Ramblingman
post Feb 12 2009, 05:01 PM
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Hi biggrin.gif

Well heres the situation Muris! i was watching Marty Friedman on youtube, but he explained it so bad...

Well heres the concept of it, he meant that you should solo over each chord, in the chord proggesion. (Followed it in his terms)

Here i will give a lesson for one time hehe ; up for it ?

LESSON:

The chord Proggesion is say for instant Am-F-G-Bm
You Should now "Follow the chords (using arpegios,scales etc) so you can hear the chord changing in the solo:D

Cheers M8 wink.gif
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Muris Varajic
post Feb 12 2009, 10:34 PM
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I see. smile.gif

One question tho, is it Bm or Bm7/-5?
I'm asking because of the key,
F chord is typical 6th degree in key of Am
but Bm chord is not from natural A minor, it's second degree of A Dorian.
it contain note F# inside and you'd have to be very careful when soloing
since you'd have to think of F note over F chord and F# note over Bm chord,
those are 2 scales, A natural minor and A Dorian.

Anyhow, the thing Marty was talking about is to point out at chord while soloing.
I'll take simpler progression tho, Am, F and G.
You can use Am scale here all the time and play around the fretboard,
you can also use Am pentatonic to sound more bluesy or som.
But to extend sound of your solo a little there's this tool called arpeggio.
You need to listen to progression and you simply play F arpeggio over F chord.
You can play Am scale up and down the neck, there is nothing wrong with that
but when you play same arpeggio over certain chord in progression you
point it out since arpeggio is nothing but broken chord played note by note.
Then you apply same thing over G chord with G arpeggio
and over Am chord with Am arpeggio.
You need to be careful with this tho otherwise you might end up
playing arpeggios all the time. smile.gif
You need to hear your solo, how it sounds, what effect it creates etc,
playing arpeggios following progression is just another tool
in arsenal to get wanted effect.

Let me know if I missed something. smile.gif


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Ramblingman
post Feb 15 2009, 05:52 PM
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[quote name='Muris Varajic' date='Feb 12 2009, 10:34 PM' post='338320']
I see. smile.gif

One question tho, is it Bm or Bm7/-5?
I'm asking because of the key,
F chord is typical 6th degree in key of Am
but Bm chord is not from natural A minor, it's second degree of A Dorian.

Tnx Muris for fast Reply biggrin.gif Ahhh i see...so is just strictly following arpeggios he does laugh.gif ...But do i have to follow arpeggios , say for example this:

Am = Am pentatonic
F =F major Scale
G =Mixolydian
Bm = B Dorian

Is this the same ?

And anoter w\question, but in Am scale and Dorian its both Bm? Its the same scale exept the rised 6th. So if we would analyse the chord of B in the Aminor scale, we have a minor second-and the fift its augmentet so we have to put an 5-.But why do you say Bm/7-5 ?
Dorian= A-B-C-D-E-F#-G-A
Minor = A-B-C-D-E-F- G-A
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Muris Varajic
post Feb 15 2009, 09:41 PM
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In A minor scale you have B diminished chord on 2nd degree,
notes are B, D and F.
I said Bm7/-5 because MANY players kind a avoid this triad as B dim chord
and play Bm7/-5 instead, so they add note A which is minor 7th to note B.
You probably played this chord many times, it has same shape like dim7
chords played on top 4 strings but played on 4 middle strings, B,G,D and A
on 2nd fret position.

On the other hand, A Dorian has Bm chord on second degree and
notes are B,D and F#.

Now lets go back to progression you mentioned,
Am,F, G and Bm.

First 3 chords here are pure Am progression and you can
play Am scale all the time or even Am Pentatonic if you wish.
With Bm chord you have to be careful whatsoever,
you can stick with Am pentatonic
BUT it would be wrong to keep within Am scale cause of F/F# note issue. smile.gif


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Ramblingman
post Feb 16 2009, 10:46 AM
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ahhh I now im getting the hang of it cool.gif

But say ÿuo would solo over this proggesion would you just stay in that pentatonic ?

Am= Am pentatonic
F =F Lydian
G =G Mixolydion
Bm = Bm pentatonic

Or will this just sound silly , since you move to another location all the time ?

Cheers m8 biggrin.gif
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Muris Varajic
post Feb 16 2009, 05:30 PM
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I get you problem and this is very common issue
when you face modes for the first time.

Am scale, F Lydian and G Mixolydian have same notes
but imho it's too messy to think about them as different modes all the time,
root is Am and F and G are just chords in progression, not another roots.
I believe it's much easier to think of Am scale (or Am pentatonic) over
Am,F and G chords instead of thinking of F Lydian over F chord
and G Mixolydian over G chord.
Each mode has it's own unique sound cause of the root and rest of the notes in scale/mode.
In this situation Am is real root while F and G are just passing chords,
everything gravitates to Am chord, right?
You don't have real chances to hear F Lydian here cause F is not the root, it's Am.
As for Bm chord, that one is from A Dorian but you can play even Bm pentatonic
cause A Dorian covers all 5 notes of Bm pentatonic anyhow. smile.gif


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Ramblingman
post Feb 17 2009, 09:31 AM
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ahhhh i see you point here muris biggrin.gif

But say if we suddently got an G#min7 then i can play G# phrygian right? since the G# issent in Am scale, so i can use another scale because it isent the root ? correct me if im wrong. And then shift back to am penta when the am chord comes up.

But isent the A dorian the same as an Bphrygian -? The next scale after dorian is an Phrygian ?
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Muris Varajic
post Feb 17 2009, 01:32 PM
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QUOTE (Ramblingman @ Feb 17 2009, 09:31 AM) *
But say if we suddently got an G#min7 then i can play G# phrygian right? since the G# issent in Am scale, so i can use another scale because it isent the root ? correct me if im wrong. And then shift back to am penta when the am chord comes up.


G#m7 would be pretty much "out of the key" chord if you're into key of Am already,
there are too many different notes like D# and F#.
You can play G# phrygian there or simply G#m7 arpeggio.


QUOTE (Ramblingman @ Feb 17 2009, 09:31 AM) *
But isent the A dorian the same as an Bphrygian -? The next scale after dorian is an Phrygian ?


A Dorian and B Phrygian have the same notes but they are NOT the same,
root is what makes all the difference. smile.gif


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kjutte
post May 13 2009, 10:19 PM
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Sorry for butting inn, but when I learned this stuff I always was confused about roots too, so I will just add that here your Root is Am, but also Bm is outchord so when you play it will be momentarily root. Any scale with B D F# in it.
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Muris Varajic
post May 13 2009, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ May 13 2009, 11:19 PM) *
Sorry for butting inn, but when I learned this stuff I always was confused about roots too, so I will just add that here your Root is Am, but also Bm is outchord so when you play it will be momentarily root. Any scale with B D F# in it.


Only if you feel or hear it as a root, I can't tho. smile.gif


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kjutte
post May 18 2009, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ May 14 2009, 12:34 AM) *
Only if you feel or hear it as a root, I can't tho. smile.gif


Depends on how long the chord's played, I guess. Sorry if I was wrong:)
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Muris Varajic
post May 19 2009, 01:07 PM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ May 19 2009, 12:49 AM) *
Depends on how long the chord's played, I guess.


And what comes after as well, we need to look at the whole picture. smile.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post May 19 2009, 01:43 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ May 19 2009, 02:07 PM) *
And what comes after as well, we need to look at the whole picture. smile.gif


+1001 ! smile.gif
Couldn't agree any more with what Muris said !


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Muris Varajic
post May 19 2009, 05:29 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ May 19 2009, 02:43 PM) *
+1001 ! smile.gif
Couldn't agree any more with what Muris said !


Cheers Pedja. smile.gif


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kjutte
post May 22 2009, 10:13 PM
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Ok. Sorry but I have to start asking questions now biggrin.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1_NpmMjX8o at 0.38

Isn't that a brief rootchange?
This is what I based my faulty post on xD
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Muris Varajic
post May 23 2009, 03:12 AM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ May 22 2009, 11:13 PM) *
Ok. Sorry but I have to start asking questions now biggrin.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1_NpmMjX8o at 0.38

Isn't that a brief rootchange?
This is what I based my faulty post on xD


I wouldn't say so, it's just V and IV played twice, then you have VI and back to I. smile.gif


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kjutte
post May 23 2009, 07:31 PM
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QUOTE (Muris Varajic @ May 23 2009, 04:12 AM) *
I wouldn't say so, it's just V and IV played twice, then you have VI and back to I. smile.gif


Ok. Why does it have such an 'out' effect then? If I play C F F GG C then it doesn't sound like that.
I really like that kind of style!
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Muris Varajic
post May 24 2009, 01:19 AM
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QUOTE (kjutte @ May 23 2009, 08:31 PM) *
Ok. Why does it have such an 'out' effect then? If I play C F F GG C then it doesn't sound like that.
I really like that kind of style!


I haven't heard any kind of "out" effect there, to be honest. smile.gif


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kjutte
post May 24 2009, 04:16 AM
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Thanks for being specific.
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Muris Varajic
post May 24 2009, 09:36 AM
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Oups, I checked clip again and yeah, I was listening to different section,
0:28 and not 0:38.
Here's the thing, at the beginning you have root chord
played with keys as some sort of minor7/9, latter on it's minor 6 as well.
So Dorian works nice for both btw.
And at 0:32 there is same root (1st degree chord) but player as minormaj7
and that's what creates kind a out effect.
I said kind s cause it's still the same root triad wise,
it's just added maj7th that sounds the way it sounds,
melodic minor can be used there.
So it's something like different type of root chord
but still the same root if you follow me. smile.gif


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