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> Cleanliness, In need of some advice
Fsgdjv
post Feb 13 2009, 02:40 PM
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Good afternoon GMC!

Today an old obsession struck me like lightning from above. I feel like my playing is so horribly sloppy it's insane sad.gif

And the problem is not the muting, or hitting the wrong strings or anything like that, it's more like, the actual playing sounds stacatto-ish when it's just supposed to be alternate picking. It doesn't flow properly. Listen to the soundclip I attatched and you'll understand what I mean. Thing is, I hear this in many recordings by professional players aswell, allthough obviously not nearly as much as I hear it in my playing, but that makes me wonder if I really should worry that super much about it?

And I suppose it's due to bad hand synchronisation, it must be since the pick or fretting hand hits the string a little bit before the other and it starts sounding like that, but I'd love to hear some advices on how to get rid of this, and on how much I should worry about this.

Attached File  sloppy.wav ( 2.86MB ) Number of downloads: 214


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Artemus
post Feb 13 2009, 02:56 PM
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Well, I don't know how qualified I am to help you with this since my playing is sloppy too but I have a couple of approaches to trying to make my alternate picking flow more. As far as I understand, it is a hand synchronisation issue.
Firstly there is the age old adage - play slow and build up gradually, but the twist is to hold the notes for as long as possible and change to the next note quickly and cleanly. This eliminates the staccato-type sound. I have had to relearn a lot of my playing to make them smoother.
An additional practise technique that has help me in this regard is to play the passages legato as well. I've often found that if I learn it accurately with left hand legato first, the alternate picking sounds smoother afterwards.
I'm sorry if this is not much help, but I too have this problem so I'll be interested to hear what other people have to say.


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-Zion-
post Feb 13 2009, 03:01 PM
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i too am not extremely qualified..

but i dont think i would call it sloppy.. i believe stacatto is a "tool" just like legato is.. so if you want to move away from your stacatto'ish playing, you shoul practice a little more legato..

and i think that Artemus' suggestions are very good.. i will try those suggestions myself.. smile.gif

This post has been edited by -Zion-: Feb 13 2009, 03:02 PM
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Fsgdjv
post Feb 13 2009, 03:05 PM
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Artemus: That legato advice actually made a lot of sense, I suppose I'll have to practice legato more, I've neglected it for a while, so it's not very suprising that I end up with this now.

Zion: Yeah I agree that stacatto is a great tool aswell, I just don't want it when it's supposed to be smooth alternate picking tongue.gif


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Jose Mena
post Feb 13 2009, 04:53 PM
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QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Feb 13 2009, 08:40 AM) *
Good afternoon GMC!

Today an old obsession struck me like lightning from above. I feel like my playing is so horribly sloppy it's insane sad.gif

And the problem is not the muting, or hitting the wrong strings or anything like that, it's more like, the actual playing sounds stacatto-ish when it's just supposed to be alternate picking. It doesn't flow properly. Listen to the soundclip I attatched and you'll understand what I mean. Thing is, I hear this in many recordings by professional players aswell, allthough obviously not nearly as much as I hear it in my playing, but that makes me wonder if I really should worry that super much about it?

And I suppose it's due to bad hand synchronisation, it must be since the pick or fretting hand hits the string a little bit before the other and it starts sounding like that, but I'd love to hear some advices on how to get rid of this, and on how much I should worry about this.

Attached File  sloppy.wav ( 2.86MB ) Number of downloads: 214


Hey, you got me wondering, what is it that you are looking for?, an example maybe of the clean sound you want, I hear it clean, sounds stacatto because you are probably hitting the strings hard, but that is what alternate picking is for, so I don't hear a problem.


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Fsgdjv
post Feb 13 2009, 05:10 PM
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QUOTE (Jose Mena @ Feb 13 2009, 04:53 PM) *
Hey, you got me wondering, what is it that you are looking for?, an example maybe of the clean sound you want, I hear it clean, sounds stacatto because you are probably hitting the strings hard, but that is what alternate picking is for, so I don't hear a problem.


Well, some of the notes are more stacatto than the others, and I can't exactly describe what it is, but it's there laugh.gif The problem might actually be that I'm hitting the strings to hard, or that I should try a lighter pick, but I want it to.. flow better if you udnerstand.

What I am looking for is just for the notes to sound more even, I don't really know how to describe it, I just want the ireggularity between the notes should be gone. I know it's a horrible explanation but I can't really explain it better sad.gif


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Jose Mena
post Feb 13 2009, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Feb 13 2009, 11:10 AM) *
Well, some of the notes are more stacatto than the others, and I can't exactly describe what it is, but it's there laugh.gif The problem might actually be that I'm hitting the strings to hard, or that I should try a lighter pick, but I want it to.. flow better if you udnerstand.

What I am looking for is just for the notes to sound more even, I don't really know how to describe it, I just want the ireggularity between the notes should be gone. I know it's a horrible explanation but I can't really explain it better sad.gif


You are playing in clean, so the initial stroke is much louder than the rest, Compression is maybe your answer, it will squash that initial stroke not letting it get to loud, so it will sound more even. When you use distortion this will take care of this, but with a clean sound you will need compression. Or a good combination of overdrive and compression, give this a try, it might be what you are looking for


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Fsgdjv
post Feb 13 2009, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (Jose Mena @ Feb 13 2009, 05:22 PM) *
You are playing in clean, so the initial stroke is much louder than the rest, Compression is maybe your answer, it will squash that initial stroke not letting it get to loud, so it will sound more even. When you use distortion this will take care of this, but with a clean sound you will need compression. Or a good combination of overdrive and compression, give this a try, it might be what you are looking for

I've always thought about compression as cheating laugh.gif But I'll keep that in mind if I have to record something and I feel it needs to me more even.

Thank you for the help and I'll try to not worry as much about this as I have been doing, I might be making a much bigger deal out of this than I should be, but I just get annoyed if it's too uneven. I'll try to worry about other things for a while rolleyes.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 13 2009, 06:31 PM
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The thing that it is important are those pauses between the notes. You said yourself you are playing "stacattio-ish". This means that you didn't properly started from low tempos when practicing, and haven't lowered down those pauses well. When you go up the spped gradually with the metronome, those pauses need to be cut shorter and shorter. This is achieved by playing the note and just after it the second note, being careful that the pause between them is as short as possible.


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Fsgdjv
post Feb 13 2009, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Feb 13 2009, 06:31 PM) *
The thing that it is important are those pauses between the notes. You said yourself you are playing "stacattio-ish". This means that you didn't properly started from low tempos when practicing, and haven't lowered down those pauses well. When you go up the spped gradually with the metronome, those pauses need to be cut shorter and shorter. This is achieved by playing the note and just after it the second note, being careful that the pause between them is as short as possible.


Hmm, that's true. Problem is there are patterns I've practiced that I started really slow with that I had this problem with aswell, maybe I'm just not meant to be able to play faster than 60 bpm or something dry.gif

I'm gonna try cutting those pauses down, but I barely know how. I'm hoping that more legato practice will do some good at least.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 15 2009, 05:02 PM
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Cutting those pauses down is not a difficult task mate, just focus it while practicing. It's all a matter of paying attention that you play one note, and immediately after that playing the second one, etc.. Take a metronome, take a note sequence that you practice, and then just watch so those small pauses are becoming smaller while you go up the tempo. You will see that on faster tempos, it will all come out very accurately and in flow.


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David Wallimann
post Feb 15 2009, 06:45 PM
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QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Feb 13 2009, 08:40 AM) *
Good afternoon GMC!

Today an old obsession struck me like lightning from above. I feel like my playing is so horribly sloppy it's insane sad.gif

And the problem is not the muting, or hitting the wrong strings or anything like that, it's more like, the actual playing sounds stacatto-ish when it's just supposed to be alternate picking. It doesn't flow properly. Listen to the soundclip I attatched and you'll understand what I mean. Thing is, I hear this in many recordings by professional players aswell, allthough obviously not nearly as much as I hear it in my playing, but that makes me wonder if I really should worry that super much about it?

And I suppose it's due to bad hand synchronisation, it must be since the pick or fretting hand hits the string a little bit before the other and it starts sounding like that, but I'd love to hear some advices on how to get rid of this, and on how much I should worry about this.

Attached File  sloppy.wav ( 2.86MB ) Number of downloads: 214



Hmmm.. I listened to your take ands don't find it sloppy at all... Is it just me???


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Fsgdjv
post Feb 15 2009, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE (David Wallimann @ Feb 15 2009, 06:45 PM) *
Hmmm.. I listened to your take ands don't find it sloppy at all... Is it just me???


It's not the normal kind of messy sloppyness, but more like the pauses between the notes, like Ivan said. Might be something I'm worrying way to much about though >_<


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Feb 16 2009, 02:34 PM
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It may not be that much of a problem like David said, but it's good that you are paying more attention to those subtle details. It will mean a lot in a long run.


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Oxac
post Feb 16 2009, 09:51 PM
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I think your biggest mistake is playing with the metronome. I know it may sound wierd but if you try, it isn't!

First off, when you're trying to get rid of a bad habit, don't use the metronome (unless your bad habit is that you're not using a metronome of course...). Start by doing the motions required in slow motion, like... matrix. That slow! Then analyze what's causing the bad habit. Then start correcting the motion and play it untill you can repeat it 20 times in a row.

Then start using the metronome, as low as you possibly can. Then try to lower it and always pay maximum attention to the motions required.

When you can play it insanely slow, like 30 bpm - whole notes (make sure that you let the motion take all of the time between the notes), now increase the tempo. Always make sure that the motion is correct and as small as possible.

Now, this is insane and may take weeks. But once you're "done" it'll have eliminated that bad habit completely.

Unless your bad habit is that you sit home doing schoolwork and playing guitar instead of dating chicks... won't help with that one.


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Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Feb 16 2009, 11:47 PM
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I think that's a left hand problem. It sounds like staccato because you hold your left hand feingers on fretboard for a short time. That is the way you relieve pressure, but try to keep them longer, if you play 16th notes, hold it for 1/16 of the bar, and so on. Let the notes last!


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