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 Feb 28 2009, 03:25 PM Post #42 Learning Tone Seeker Group: Members Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08 Member No.: 5.825 QUOTE These 2 statements sound contradictory. In D Ionian that would be G# dim, E major and C# min.In D Ionian you have E minor NOT E major.Is one of those supposed to be Lydian?You are right Jer, sorry for the typo. D Lydian contains G#dim, E major and C#min.See, you do understand!! QUOTE 1) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and a E maj triad?Use the chart I gave you in the post Jer. I gave it to you so you wouldn't have to write stuff out every time. Major triads only occur in the I, IV and V position. Go to your chart and find the Ionian position and then go down until you fin 'D' Then look across and see if there is an "E" in the IV or V position. Do the Same for the IV and V positions. USE THE CHART, I did the work so you wouldn't have to!! QUOTE 1) What scales contain both a Dmaj triad and a C#min triad?Use the Chart Jer and see if you can find a D in the I, IV or V postion and a C# in the ii, ii, or vi postion in the same row. USE THE CHART!!! This post has been edited by lcsdds: Feb 28 2009, 03:23 PM
 Feb 28 2009, 04:25 PM Post #46 Learning Tone Seeker Group: Members Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08 Member No.: 5.825 QUOTE (jer @ Feb 28 2009, 04:11 PM) I still don't know what that means.... If the notes of a major triad are the 1,3,5 how can I,IV,V have anything to do with it?The I, IV and V refer to the postion that the notes in the scale fall on. Here is my assumption Jer:At the I, IV and V postion there is ALWAYS a major triad and at the ii, iii and vi position there is ALWAYS a minor triad.Do this. You know that D maj is spelled D-F#-A right?Go to the I column and find D the look two spaces to the right guess what note it there? F#Go to the IV column and find D then look two spaces to the right guess what? F# againGo to the V column and find D then look two spaces to the right...TA DA...F# again.That means in the major scale that whatever note fall in the I, IV or V postion, if you build a triad using that note as the root then it will ALWAYS be a major triad.Same thing is true of the ii, iii and vi positionDmin=D-F-AGo to the ii column and find D, two spaces to the right and you have F.Go to the iii column and find D, two spaces to the right you have F again.Go to the vi column and find D, two spaces to the right.....F!!!So in the major scale, if you build a triad using whatever note occurs at the ii, iii or vi position as the root, it will ALWAYS be minor.So using the Chart....Whatever note falls on the I, IV or V position is the root of a major triad in that scale and whatever note falls on the ii, iii, or vi position is the root of a minor triad. Test the chart Jer and see if it isn't true.Spell out E major and E minor. See if every time E is in the I, IV or V position if the note 2 spaces to the right isn't G#, and when is in the ii, iii or vi position if the note 2 spaces to the right isn't G. Test it.
 Feb 28 2009, 04:46 PM Post #47 GMC:er Group: Passive Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA Member No.: 5.836 I see. You are using the I IV and V as the starting points only. -------------------- My GearJackson SL-1 USA SoloistJackson DK2MESP LTD MH-400ESP LTD EC-1000Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 AcousticHandmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods)Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube AmpBoss GT-10 Preamp/Effects ProcessorDigitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects ProcessorBehringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled FloorboardBehringer Dualfex EX2200Behinger Stereo EQLine 6 POD with 2.3 upgradeLine 6 Floor BoardLine 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"
 Feb 28 2009, 05:02 PM Post #48 Learning Tone Seeker Group: Members Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08 Member No.: 5.825 QUOTE (jer @ Feb 28 2009, 04:46 PM) I see. You are using the I IV and V as the starting points only.YES!!! If you spell out A major you have this A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G# OR THIS:I=Aii=Biii=C#IV=DV=Evi=F#vii/dim=G#NOW...if I build a triad starting from the IV or D then 1=root=D....3=the third, in this case major third=F#, and 5=fifth=A. The note that determines if a triad is major or minor is the 3rd. Get it now? Sorry for confusing you.
 Feb 28 2009, 07:29 PM Post #50 Learning Tone Seeker Group: Members Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08 Member No.: 5.825 Jer, I'm gonna give you one more thing to think about. Let's look at the chord progression we are gonna use in our MTP collab this month. D-D-E-ENow lets look at it measure by measure and see what we could use to solo over it.For the first two measures we have a D major chord.What scales contain within it a D-F#-A AKA a D major triad? D Ionian, D Lydian and D Mixolydian. Check your chart to confirm this!So for the first two measures we could use either one of those 3 scales and sound good for the most part. Now lets look at the next two measures where we are soloing over E major.What scales contain within it an E-G#-B AKA an E Major triad? E Ionian, E Lydian and E Mixolydian.So for these two measures we could use either one of those 3 scales and sound good as well. This is what fusion guys do, analyze every chord all by itself.But....If you ask yourself... what if I only want to use one scale so I don't have to worry about changing scales every time the chord changes. Well if you analyze everything by writing it out OR....you just look at my chart ..You will find that TWO of those 6 scales contain both D-F#-A (D major triad) and E-G#-B (E major triad). Those two scales are D Lydian and E Mixolydian....Now look at your chart and guess what.....D Lydian and E Mixolydian contain THE EXACT SAME NOTES. So technically, You could say our progression is either D lydian or E mixolydian...6 of one or half a dozen of the other. But for our purposes we are gonna call it D lydian. This post has been edited by lcsdds: Feb 28 2009, 08:39 PM
 Feb 28 2009, 08:23 PM Post #51 GMC:er Group: Passive Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA Member No.: 5.836 your last post seems to be duplicated inside itself. I understand what you are saying but I dont think you are getting what I am asking. What is your skype callsign? -------------------- My GearJackson SL-1 USA SoloistJackson DK2MESP LTD MH-400ESP LTD EC-1000Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 AcousticHandmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods)Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube AmpBoss GT-10 Preamp/Effects ProcessorDigitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects ProcessorBehringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled FloorboardBehringer Dualfex EX2200Behinger Stereo EQLine 6 POD with 2.3 upgradeLine 6 Floor BoardLine 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"
 Feb 28 2009, 08:40 PM Post #52 Learning Tone Seeker Group: Members Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08 Member No.: 5.825 QUOTE (jer @ Feb 28 2009, 08:23 PM) your last post seems to be duplicated inside itself. I understand what you are saying but I dont think you are getting what I am asking. What is your skype callsign?Tell me again what you are asking?
 Feb 28 2009, 08:52 PM Post #53 GMC:er Group: Passive Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA Member No.: 5.836 if you want chords for D mixolydian why not just start there?Why look for a comparison scale, (1)then get those chords (2)and look for ones that have the D mixolydian notes in them. (3)I dont see the need for 3 steps. If you want to sound mixolydian why not just get the chords from the actual scale? -------------------- My GearJackson SL-1 USA SoloistJackson DK2MESP LTD MH-400ESP LTD EC-1000Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 AcousticHandmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods)Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube AmpBoss GT-10 Preamp/Effects ProcessorDigitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects ProcessorBehringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled FloorboardBehringer Dualfex EX2200Behinger Stereo EQLine 6 POD with 2.3 upgradeLine 6 Floor BoardLine 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"
 Feb 28 2009, 09:00 PM Post #54 Learning Tone Seeker Group: Members Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08 Member No.: 5.825 QUOTE (jer @ Feb 28 2009, 08:52 PM) if you want chords for D mixolydian why not just start there?Why look for a comparison scale, (1)then get those chords (2)and look for ones that have the D mixolydian notes in them. (3)I dont see the need for 3 steps. If you want to sound mixolydian why not just get the chords from the actual scale?Alright I get what you are asking. I want you to give me an example of a possible D Mixolydian chord progression to solo over. Then we'll analyze it. You are correct though Jer. When I want to get say a D Lydian chord progression I know which chords to use without doing the three steps. I am trying to show you guys how I cam to that conclusion though. Once you know why then you don't have to go through all the steps. You will just know.
 Feb 28 2009, 10:11 PM Post #55 Learning Apprentice Player Group: Members Posts: 1.156 Joined: 11-September 08 From: Cleveland, Ohio Member No.: 5.886 Yea. Calm down tiger. Not everyone is smart like you. Wheres my milkbone at? QUOTE (lcsdds @ Feb 28 2009, 03:00 PM) Alright I get what you are asking. I want you to give me an example of a possible D Mixolydian chord progression to solo over. Then we'll analyze it. You are correct though Jer. When I want to get say a D Lydian chord progression I know which chords to use without doing the three steps. I am trying to show you guys how I cam to that conclusion though. Once you know why then you don't have to go through all the steps. You will just know. -------------------- My GearIbanez RG570 SilverJackson Ofset V Randy Rhodes SignatureMitchell AcousticCustom Ibanez S series (Currently working on)X2 XDS95 Digital Wireless systemLine 6 MKII8 Channel USB Roland MixerMy Sitewww.shredwork.comLearn how to count. It's what separates the hack and the pros IMHO. -LCSDDS
 Feb 28 2009, 11:59 PM Post #56 GMC:er Group: Passive Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA Member No.: 5.836 I don't follow why the steps are necessary at all. Lets use Ionian. Say you want to do a progression in D Ionian. Do you use a comparison scale? No. You just take the notes and stack the thirds to get the chords. Why not do the same with any other mode?This is what sucks about printing stuff. I could explain in 30 sec what I am saying.....Simple - if you want a chord progression in B Dorian you need the chords of B Dorian. Thats all you need. Using the chart, here is B Dorian. B C# D E F# G# Atake your Maj, Min, Min Maj Maj Min Dim order and bump it over 1 since we are starting on the 2nd mode (Dorian)Min, Min Maj Maj Min Dim, MajViola. Bmin C#min Dmaj Emaj F#min G#dim AmajNo comparison scale needed. To me this is one step. I want a progression in B Dorian, there are the chords.QUOTE I want you to give me an example of a possible D Mixolydian chord progression to solo over. Then we'll analyze it.DmajEminF#dimGmajAminBminCmajthere are the D mixolydian chords.QUOTE Yea. Calm down tiger. Not everyone is smart like you.Who are you talking to?Hey Dan, what do you call a Dr that flunks out of med school? This post has been edited by jer: Feb 28 2009, 11:25 PM -------------------- My GearJackson SL-1 USA SoloistJackson DK2MESP LTD MH-400ESP LTD EC-1000Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 AcousticHandmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods)Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube AmpBoss GT-10 Preamp/Effects ProcessorDigitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects ProcessorBehringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled FloorboardBehringer Dualfex EX2200Behinger Stereo EQLine 6 POD with 2.3 upgradeLine 6 Floor BoardLine 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"
 Mar 1 2009, 12:09 AM Post #57 Learning Tone Seeker Group: Members Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08 Member No.: 5.825 QUOTE (jer @ Feb 28 2009, 11:40 PM) I don't follow why the steps are necessary at all. Lets use Ionian. Say you want to do a progression in D Ionian. Do you use a comparison scale? No. You just take the notes and stack the thirds to get the chords. Why not do the same with any other mode?This is what sucks about printing stuff. I could explain in 30 sec what I am saying.....Simple - if you want a chord progression in B Dorian you need the chords of B Dorian. Thats all you need. Using the chart, here is B Dorian. B C# D E F# G# Atake your Maj, Min, Min Maj Maj Min Dim order and bump it over 1 since we are starting on the 2nd mode (Dorian)Min, Min Maj Maj Min Dim, MajViola. Bmin C#min Dmaj Emaj F#min G#dim AmajNo comparison scale needed. To me this is one step. I want a progression in B Dorian, there are the chords.DmajEminF#dimGmajAminBminCmajthere are the D mixolydian chords.First of all the hungry dog is outside.....I'll need to go to Wal-Mart to get some milkbones though. Alrght here is the deal.If I said....Alright guys we are gonna work in the D Lydian mode this month.The chord prgression we are gonna solo over is D-E-D C#min.I want your takes in 3 weeks. After we did the solos I would ask you guys what you thought of our Lydian collab and Jer would say: 'Dude....Lydian mode ROCKS \m/\m/ It has this dreamy kinda vibe goin on,, kinda like Satch's FIABD, why is that'I would then say "It sounds kinda dreamy because of the raised 4th"....to which Jer would respond "what the !@#\$ is a raised fourth." To which I would the respond with a long winded explanation that sounds reall similar to the post in my main thread My Skype call sign is "montestevens".I am trying to take you guys through the process of why we focus on certain chords when writing a modal progression. If I just said use this chord or that chord, I know the first question out of you guys mouth would be...WHY SHOULD I USE THAT CHORD!!I gotta run to Wal-Mart!!!
 Mar 1 2009, 12:11 AM Post #58 GMC:er Group: Passive Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA Member No.: 5.836 QUOTE I would then say "It sounds kinda dreamy because of the raised 4th"....to which Jer would respond "what the !@#\$ is a raised fourth."I got your raised 4th RIGHT HERE!!!! HAHAHAHA!!!! I know what a raised 4th is. I know what you are trying to do. I'm just not following the whole comparison scale thing. Seems like extra steps. -------------------- My GearJackson SL-1 USA SoloistJackson DK2MESP LTD MH-400ESP LTD EC-1000Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 AcousticHandmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods)Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube AmpBoss GT-10 Preamp/Effects ProcessorDigitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects ProcessorBehringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled FloorboardBehringer Dualfex EX2200Behinger Stereo EQLine 6 POD with 2.3 upgradeLine 6 Floor BoardLine 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"
 Mar 1 2009, 12:32 AM Post #59 Learning Tone Seeker Group: Members Posts: 2.054 Joined: 2-September 08 Member No.: 5.825 QUOTE (jer @ Mar 1 2009, 12:11 AM) I got your raised 4th RIGHT HERE!!!! HAHAHAHA!!!! I know what a raised 4th is. I know what you are trying to do. I'm just not following the whole comparison scale thing. Seems like extra steps.All the scale comparison does is show you why Lydian sounds Lydian and not Ionian. Ionian is the "Standard" for a major sound. Lydian is a variation of the Ionian. It sounds Major but not in the same way Ionian sounds major. The reason for this is the raised 4th...which you obviously know what it it is!!
 Mar 1 2009, 01:30 AM Post #60 GMC:er Group: Passive Posts: 1.889 Joined: 3-September 08 From: Des Moines IA USA Member No.: 5.836 \m/ \m/ -------------------- My GearJackson SL-1 USA SoloistJackson DK2MESP LTD MH-400ESP LTD EC-1000Ibanez Custom S-Series Martin 001 AcousticHandmade Marshall JCM800 50watt head (with mods)Carvin 50x2 Stereo Tube AmpBoss GT-10 Preamp/Effects ProcessorDigitech GSP-1101 Preamp/Effects ProcessorBehringer FCB1010 Midi Controlled FloorboardBehringer Dualfex EX2200Behinger Stereo EQLine 6 POD with 2.3 upgradeLine 6 Floor BoardLine 6 Spider III Practice Amp Nady UHF Wireless"Who will eat the decay, when the worms have lost their sight?"

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