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> Marshall Mg100hdfx Head/ Mg412a Cab, Is it any good?
Sircraigery
post Mar 3 2009, 03:17 PM
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QUOTE (tommyboy @ Mar 3 2009, 02:31 PM) *
Hear's my 2 cents. I've owned many combo's and a couple of Marshall full stacks. In fact that's what I use currently.

Many people say a 4x12 is to big for a club setting. That's total bs in my opinion. The sound produced by a 4x12 closed back cab cannot even be compaired to a 2x12 open backed combo. Focused, ballsy, and punchy are just a few of the words describing a 4x12.

Now, I'm guessing that your considering the Marshall MG 100dfx with a 4x12 cab for both price and the fact that just about every band you mentioned used Marshall for their back line. Many people with argue with me but Marshall is the king of rock and roll back lines. Still to this day it's the standard. It just looks great. Period!! Even people who don't know a thing about amps recognize the Marshall logo. That's because any concert they ever been to they see Marshall stacks in the back line.

However, keep in mind the MG series is not the Marshalls that true Marshall lovers play. It's their entry level line and they don't sound like any good tube Marshall will sound. Does that mean there bad. That's for each individual player to figure out. The 4x12 cab that matches the MG head is also not the same. Speakers and cab construction are not the same quality as Marshall's famous 1960 lead cabinets.

If your on a budget and you must have the Marshall half stack look I say go for it as you will always be able to sell it for 2/3's of what you paid for it. If you can wait and save up some more money then used Marshall's like a JCM 2000 DSL can be had for $600 to $800 dollars. Used 1960 cabs will run $500 to $650 dollars.

Bottom line solid state verses tubes. Don't be fooled into thinking a low end tube amp will sound much better that a solid state amp. It's just not true. However, Marshall, Mesa Boogie, Engl etc. all have great tube amps but your not going to get one too cheap. The old saying really stands true you generally get what you pay for.

Cheers,
tommyboy


I agree dude...How ever I'd just like to rub in that I picked up Mesa Express 5:50 ( biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif ) last night for $1000 cdn (just under $800 US). Maybe in these hard economic times, it's time to buy used. My amp retails for $1800, and it's mint condition.


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Electro-Harmonix Metal Muff
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 3 2009, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (tommyboy @ Mar 3 2009, 02:31 PM) *
Hear's my 2 cents. I've owned many combo's and a couple of Marshall full stacks. In fact that's what I use currently.

Many people say a 4x12 is to big for a club setting. That's total bs in my opinion. The sound produced by a 4x12 closed back cab cannot even be compaired to a 2x12 open backed combo. Focused, ballsy, and punchy are just a few of the words describing a 4x12.


I would say you are mixing 2 different things mate. 4x12 cabs do sound better, no one is arguing otherwise, but we are talking about practicality of the 4x12 use in small clubs.
If I see 100W Marshall halfstack in a limited space, this tells me only that the sound will be flat. No dynamics, loose low end, specially if you use distortion. If you crank the 50W Marshall in the club it will be often too loud, cause you have to mic it anyway, so you run it at 50-60% of the power. The only real need for a speaker there is to mic it up, and 2x12 serves the purpose, both sound-wise and space-wise. Now imagine a 100W halfstack in the club - cranked. See what I mean?
The sound engeneer can always add a bit bass if needed. The 200-300W 4x12 cab running on ~15% power is bit an overkill to my experience. Yes it can be done, the sound will have more (loose) low end, but if you are on a limited budget 2x12 is a good recommendation. These closed cabs can be tight and have a nice bass response. Also they are cheaper then 4x12, and easier to carry around. For 500$ I don't think a good halfstack can be bought anyway, so it is important to say that as well. I always carry my combo around, and don't wanna buy a 4x12 simply cause I would not use it that often. I could carry it around on big open gigs during summer perhaps and that's it. Not a good investment, if the time comes, I will rent one. 2x12 combo on another hand is a very good investment, and if you find a hybrid one, even better. Later on you can combine it with another 2x12 or 4x12 if needed.

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Mar 3 2009, 07:07 PM


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tommyboy
post Mar 3 2009, 09:09 PM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Mar 3 2009, 12:04 PM) *
I would say you are mixing 2 different things mate. 4x12 cabs do sound better, no one is arguing otherwise, but we are talking about practicality of the 4x12 use in small clubs.


Your talking volume, I'm talking about tone. I use a volume box in my effects loop to control my volume. I'm now able to get the tone without having to play at very loud volumes. Also, a 50 watt tube combo isn't really any different than a 50 watt head. Only difference is my wattage is spread out over 8 speakers verses 2. Much easier to control overall volume IMO. Tone isn't necessarily directly related to volume as I'm sure you know. Practicality is in the eye of the one using the 4x12's. I use two 4x12's. Some say it's overkill. I say it's ROCK N ROLL!!

QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Mar 3 2009, 12:04 PM) *
If I see 100W Marshall halfstack in a limited space, this tells me only that the sound will be flat. No dynamics, loose low end, specially if you use distortion. If you crank the 50W Marshall in the club it will be often too loud, cause you have to mic it anyway, so you run it at 50-60% of the power. The only real need for a speaker there is to mic it up, and 2x12 serves the purpose, both sound-wise and space-wise. Now imagine a 100W halfstack in the club - cranked. See what I mean?


No one in their right mind is able to crank a 50 watt 1/2 stack in a small club. I understand your point. All I'm staying is a 4x12 cab has a distinct tone advantage. Even when played at bedroom levels. Your can take this point to the next level by adding a attenuator or a volume device like I use in my effects loop.


QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Mar 3 2009, 12:04 PM) *
The sound engeneer can always add a bit bass if needed. The 200-300W 4x12 cab running on ~15% power is bit an overkill to my experience. Yes it can be done, the sound will have more (loose) low end, but if you are on a limited budget 2x12 is a good recommendation. These closed cabs can be tight and have a nice bass response. Also they are cheaper then 4x12, and easier to carry around. For 500$ I don't think a good halfstack can be bought anyway, so it is important to say that as well. I always carry my combo around, and don't wanna buy a 4x12 simply cause I would not use it that often. I could carry it around on big open gigs during summer perhaps and that's it. Not a good investment, if the time comes, I will rent one. 2x12 combo on another hand is a very good investment, and if you find a hybrid one, even better. Later on you can combine it with another 2x12 or 4x12 if needed.


A sound engineer can totally change your tone, of course. You can run completely dry and have all your effects added by him as well. However, most players like to control their effects and tone on stage. Just because you sound great through a PA doesn't mean you sound great to you and the band. This can effect the way you play and express yourself greatly. As for the original post he was asking about heads and 4x12's.

I do completely agree with you as to the portability of 4x12's verses 2x12's etc. However, since I'm a tone snob I'm willing to give in to that for the sake of tone.

Cheers!
tommyboy


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 3 2009, 11:02 PM
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I have no problem if you run it through several cabs. Some may prefer to do like that - it's up to player to decide of course. I'm just saying that using 2x12 is very convenient and pretty reasonable thing to get if you're on a limited budget, and need a solid and portable working equipment. Also, as I said before, 4x12 cab needs to be cranked or it will sound a bit slow, cause it needs more power to operate (less power is distributed on 4 speakers then 2). It doesn't matter if you use attenuation - power is power, and cones must move to produce the full sound and move air. More movement - better dynamics. Of course this is not always important, but it is important for me to at least point this fact for future buyers. What they wanna do with it is their choice, I'm just trying to help.
If you like to keep 2 cabs on stage during the gig I say go for it man! It is rock an roll, I agree. I would also keep them there if I had someone to carry them for me on every gig, but I would not play through them, I would use only 2 speakers of one cab. The rest could be empty for all I care - I would keep it there for looks. I've red that on many big concerts all those cabs are not really cabs, only one pair of them is miced up and other ones are empty boxes - only for display. So because in R&R it is important to display your gear as well, I support your cabinet use.
On the stage I use 1x12 combos, and it is enough for me to hear the sound, so I know that it is there. Sound tech will make a good sound on PA and that is all that matters for people. If someone in the band wants to hear the guitar, he will get it through monitoring not my cab, and they don't get low end there, on contrary, those monitors are often smaller than regular PA boxes, so they give away mid range sound. On many stages there aren't even monitors, so I can barely hear other bandmates, and they can barely hear me. But drummer is there, so you follow the beat, and listen to your amp in the distance.

This post has been edited by Ivan Milenkovic: Mar 3 2009, 11:04 PM


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megadeth1117
post Mar 4 2009, 12:12 AM
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whole alot of advanced amp terminology here blink.gif

my question would be, would the Peavey 112 (the smaller, cheaper one) be good for small shows?, since our band has just started we not going to be playing big places for a very long time
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ZakkWylde
post Mar 4 2009, 12:21 AM
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Any amp that can compete with a drummer is loud enough for shows, because usually your amp gets miced.
The peavey IS loud enough to compete with a drummer!


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megadeth1117
post Mar 4 2009, 12:33 AM
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so would I be better off tonewise with the peavey rather than the marshall, since it can also play shows? I always thought 50 watts would be way too little, or is it different in tube wattage?
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Sircraigery
post Mar 4 2009, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE (ZakkWylde @ Mar 4 2009, 12:21 AM) *
Any amp that can compete with a drummer is loud enough for shows, because usually your amp gets miced.
The peavey IS loud enough to compete with a drummer!


With an upgraded speaker you mean? tongue.gif (It's not without one haha)

Guys, maybe we're getting a bit ahead of ourselves here. I think Mega-D is just looking to jam with his friends in the garage, and not tour the world. If you want a fairly decent small amp that almost EVERYONE starts on. Buy a used PEAVEY BANDIT 112 for $200, and it's easy to lug around. They are 75-80 watts, fairly light, industructible, dime/dozen, and loud as hell. If your a young dude who takes the bus, buy this amp to leave at your friends house, and a another small one for home.

This may not be music to the tone junkies' ears, but hey...

This post has been edited by Sircraigery: Mar 4 2009, 12:35 AM


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megadeth1117
post Mar 4 2009, 12:40 AM
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the Peavey Bandit sounds like a great deal, I hope my guitar center has one to try out, how does it compare to the Valveking? just in case they don't have it at GC , i know they have the valveking
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Sircraigery
post Mar 4 2009, 12:44 AM
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QUOTE (megadeth1117 @ Mar 4 2009, 12:40 AM) *
the Peavey Bandit sounds like a great deal, I hope my guitar center has one to try out, how does it compare to the Valveking? just in case they don't have it at GC , i know they have the valveking


The valve king sounds better, but the bandit isn't a horrible amp. Most people in this form have awesome gear, so they might not like my suggestion. And if you were playing gigs I'd recommend something better, but if it's garage playing to screw around with some buddies, the bandit will be fine. It's much louder than the stock Valveking 112.

Edit: The Bandit is probably a better overall amp than the Marshall, fyi.

I'm not sure where you live dude, but buy used. These things almost never leave the bedrooms in the basements.

http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-m...QAdIdZ108955471
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-m...QAdIdZ108919235
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-m...QAdIdZ110744294


This post has been edited by Sircraigery: Mar 4 2009, 12:48 AM


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megadeth1117
post Mar 4 2009, 12:46 AM
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well we already played 2 shows, I borrowed my friends 150 watt line 6, which was loud enough but sounded pretty bad, so I guess for playing small to medium gigs, the best thing would be the 212 valveking?
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Sircraigery
post Mar 4 2009, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE (megadeth1117 @ Mar 4 2009, 12:46 AM) *
well we already played 2 shows, I borrowed my friends 150 watt line 6, which was loud enough but sounded pretty bad, so I guess for playing small to medium gigs, the best thing would be the 212 valveking?


Yeah, I'd say that's your best bet if you didn't like the Line 6.

Here man:

http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-m...QQAdIdZ93315679

Ask if he'll ship to you haha. Remember, these are CDN dollars, not US.

This post has been edited by Sircraigery: Mar 4 2009, 12:52 AM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 4 2009, 01:19 AM
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I think Valveking 212 is good enough for any type of live show, so it gets my vote.


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Sircraigery
post Mar 4 2009, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Mar 4 2009, 01:19 AM) *
I think Valveking 212 is good enough for any type of live show, so it gets my vote.



I think some suggested this in the beginning haha, this whole forum has gone in a circle. But at least we all agree on 1 amp now.


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megadeth1117
post Mar 4 2009, 01:22 AM
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yes for sure I will check it out, thank you to all for the recommendations and help

This post has been edited by megadeth1117: Mar 4 2009, 01:23 AM
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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 4 2009, 01:30 AM
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No prob mate, we're here to help. Let us know what you did! smile.gif

Cheers


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tommyboy
post Mar 4 2009, 03:32 AM
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QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Mar 3 2009, 04:02 PM) *
I have no problem if you run it through several cabs. Some may prefer to do like that - it's up to player to decide of course. I'm just saying that using 2x12 is very convenient and pretty reasonable thing to get if you're on a limited budget, and need a solid and portable working equipment. Also, as I said before, 4x12 cab needs to be cranked or it will sound a bit slow, cause it needs more power to operate (less power is distributed on 4 speakers then 2). It doesn't matter if you use attenuation - power is power, and cones must move to produce the full sound and move air. More movement - better dynamics. Of course this is not always important, but it is important for me to at least point this fact for future buyers. What they wanna do with it is their choice, I'm just trying to help.
If you like to keep 2 cabs on stage during the gig I say go for it man! It is rock an roll, I agree. I would also keep them there if I had someone to carry them for me on every gig, but I would not play through them, I would use only 2 speakers of one cab. The rest could be empty for all I care - I would keep it there for looks. I've red that on many big concerts all those cabs are not really cabs, only one pair of them is miced up and other ones are empty boxes - only for display. So because in R&R it is important to display your gear as well, I support your cabinet use.
On the stage I use 1x12 combos, and it is enough for me to hear the sound, so I know that it is there. Sound tech will make a good sound on PA and that is all that matters for people. If someone in the band wants to hear the guitar, he will get it through monitoring not my cab, and they don't get low end there, on contrary, those monitors are often smaller than regular PA boxes, so they give away mid range sound. On many stages there aren't even monitors, so I can barely hear other bandmates, and they can barely hear me. But drummer is there, so you follow the beat, and listen to your amp in the distance.


Ivan,

Relax dude, I'm not really disagreeing with you. I've heard too many great combo's to say a head and a 4x12 cab is the only way to get great tone. Your one of the most helpfull people on this forum and I commened you for all the advice you give.

However, on this your just plain wrong. wink.gif Just kidding! The original post started with megadeth1117 asking about a head and a 4x12 cabinet. So many young players today because of Line 6 pods, and certain modeling amps have never really heard a Marshall head cranked through and 4x12 cabinet. They set their presest to British JCM 800 with 4x12 cab and think that's what a Marshall sounds like. All I'm saying is a 4x12 only sounds like a 4x12 when played live and so many players have really never had the chance to play through a head and a 4x12 cabinet. A great 2x12 still sounds like a 2x12. 2 4x12's sound different than a half stack.

Why do you think someone like Marcus Siepen swears by his Mesa Boogie cabs. It's just the tone. Perhaps just not your tone. megadeth1117 will just have to figure out if it's tone or looks he's going for. As a Marshall player yourself you know it can be both. We were both just trying to guide and help him in his decision. We were just doing it from too different perspectives.

Rock on dude,
tommyboy


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Pragomatic
post Mar 4 2009, 04:21 AM
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lol... I played many a club with a Peavey Bandit in a half arsed punk band... and we got laid and paid - the only things that matter. My equipment is better now, but I haven't seen an equal increase in the quality of the women... so I say go with the best affordable option. If you're good it doesn't matter.... the only people that compliment equipment are dudes anyway. If someone says "Nice rig" I want them to be female and talking about my junk...

....probably should have waited until I wasn't hammered to make my first forum post...
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Sircraigery
post Mar 4 2009, 04:28 AM
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QUOTE (Pragomatic @ Mar 4 2009, 04:21 AM) *
lol... I played many a club with a Peavey Bandit in a half arsed punk band... and we got laid and paid - the only things that matter. My equipment is better now, but I haven't seen an equal increase in the quality of the women... so I say go with the best affordable option. If you're good it doesn't matter.... the only people that compliment equipment are dudes anyway. If someone says "Nice rig" I want them to be female and talking about my junk...

....probably should have waited until I wasn't hammered to make my first forum post...


LOL!!


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Guitars:
Ibanez Prestige RG2610E [BKP Cold Sweat]
Ibanez Prestige RG2550E [Carbon Fiber Plastics]
Ibanez Roadstar II RS-135 [Stock]
Quest Acoustic [Stock]

Effects:
Electro-Harmonix Metal Muff
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Boss DR-3 Dr. Rhythym

Amp:
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401

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29a
post Mar 4 2009, 10:49 AM
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QUOTE (megadeth1117 @ Mar 4 2009, 12:33 AM) *
so would I be better off tonewise with the peavey rather than the marshall, since it can also play shows? I always thought 50 watts would be way too little, or is it different in tube wattage?
The relation between Wattage and Volume is not linear but logarithmic. So 100 Watt is not 100 times louder than 1 Watt but actually only twice as loud. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_amplifier#Power_output for reference. wink.gif


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