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> Pentatonic And Diatonic Soloing Options, Stay on topic please
lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 05:05 AM
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So I want to go over our Pentatonic and Diatonic soloing options in this thread. That way if you guys need to go over it again it is all in one place. Try and stay on topic in this thread please. I'll post later and recap what we have discussed already. smile.gif
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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 06:22 AM
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Jer, could you kind of recap where we are with the Pentatonic and Diatonic soloing options by breaking down this scale:

G Ionian

Tell us our diatonic and pentatonic soloing options and why. Thanks dude. \m/\m/


Anyone who doesn't understand this needs to chime in and we'll get you up to speed.

Stay on topic. Diatonic and Pentatonic Soloing options only

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Outlaw2112
post Mar 3 2009, 06:36 AM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Mar 3 2009, 06:22 AM) *
Jer, could you kind of recap where we are with the Pentatonic and Diatonic soloing options by breaking down this scale:

G Ionian

Tell us our diatonic and pentatonic soloing options and why. Thanks dude. \m/\m/


Anyone who doesn't understand this needs to chime in and we'll get you up to speed.

Stay on topic. Diatonic and Pentatonic Soloing options only

chime chime....I have no idea what you are talking about, but ill stay tuned to see what the answer is
and figure it out from there


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jer
post Mar 3 2009, 02:04 PM
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Sure.

Outlaw, if any part of this doesnt make sense jot it down and ask me in your thread.


G ionian - also know as Gmaj. Would have these 7 notes.

G
A
B
C
D
E
F#

Well, we know that we could use this scale of course. So there is our first. G Ionian. (1)

Of course we could use the pentatonic version of the same thing. G pentatonic (2) By the way, the pentatonic version is the same without the 4th and 7th degrees. So for Gmaj pentatonic that would be GABDEF You can also use this formula for maj pentatonic scales. W W W + H W W + H

The relative minor scale to any major scale has the same notes, so that would be legal too.

You can find the relative minor scale by starting on the 6th degree of the major scale. Degree is just a fancy name for note. The 6th note in G Ionian is E. So Eminor (3) is legal here too. The scale formula for a minor scale is whwwhww. Starting on E and applying that formula gives us the same notes as Gmaj. E F# G A B C D

Of course Emin pentatonic (4) would work ok here. The formula for min pentatonic scales is:
W + H W W W + H W E G A B D

Now I discovered yesterday that if you look at the chart for the scale you are working with, in this case Gmaj, and look at the IV and V notes you'll find 2 more major pentatonic scales that will work. What is the IV of Gmaj? Its C. So Cmaj pentatonic (5) is ok. Cmaj pentatonic is Cmaj with no 4th or 7th. C D E G A

The relative minor of Cmaj is the 6th degree, here that would be A. So Amin pentatonic is ok to(6)o. A C D E G

The V of Gmaj is D. So Dmaj pentatonic (7) will work too. That would be D E F# A B

And if Dmaj pentatonic is ok, the relative minor to Dmaj (the 6th degree of Dmaj) is ok too. This would be Bmin pentatonic (8) B D E F# A

So there are our options. 8 of them will work for G Ionian (Gmajor)

Gmaj
Gmaj pentatonic
Emin
Emin pentatonic
Cmaj pentatonic
Amin pentatonic
Dmaj pentatonic
Bmin pentatonic


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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 02:04 PM) *
Sure.

Outlaw, if any part of this doesnt make sense jot it down and ask me in your thread.


G ionian - also know as Gmaj. Would have these 7 notes.

G
A
B
C
D
E
F#

Well, we know that we could use this scale of course. So there is our first. G Ionian. (1)

Of course we could use the pentatonic version of the same thing. G pentatonic (2) By the way, the pentatonic version is the same without the 4th and 7th degrees. So for Gmaj pentatonic that would be GABDEF You can also use this formula for maj pentatonic scales. W W W + H W W + H

The relative minor scale to any major scale has the same notes, so that would be legal too.

You can find the relative minor scale by starting on the 6th degree of the major scale. Degree is just a fancy name for note. The 6th note in G Ionian is E. So Eminor (3) is legal here too. The scale formula for a minor scale is whwwhww. Starting on E and applying that formula gives us the same notes as Gmaj. E F# G A B C D

Of course Emin pentatonic (4) would work ok here. The formula for min pentatonic scales is:
W + H W W W + H W E G A B D

Now I discovered yesterday that if you look at the chart for the scale you are working with, in this case Gmaj, and look at the IV and V notes you'll find 2 more major pentatonic scales that will work. What is the IV of Gmaj? Its C. So Cmaj pentatonic (5) is ok. Cmaj pentatonic is Cmaj with no 4th or 7th. C D E G A

The relative minor of Cmaj is the 6th degree, here that would be A. So Amin pentatonic is ok to(6)o. A C D E G

The V of Gmaj is D. So Dmaj pentatonic (7) will work too. That would be D E F# A B

And if Dmaj pentatonic is ok, the relative minor to Dmaj (the 6th degree of Dmaj) is ok too. This would be Bmin pentatonic (8) B D E F# A

So there are our options. 8 of them will work for G Ionian (Gmajor)

Gmaj
Gmaj pentatonic
Emin
Emin pentatonic
Cmaj pentatonic
Amin pentatonic
Dmaj pentatonic
Bmin pentatonic


Very well done Jer!!! And...you used the chart, I'M SO PROUD OF YOU!! wub.gif wub.gif

\m/\m/

Marek and Outlaw if you don't understand ALL of this then I want you to chime in here and Dan and Jer will get you up to speed.

Kaz, I think you are good to go on this right?

Green Berets baby....Nobody gets left behind!! smile.gif smile.gif

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lcsdds
post Mar 4 2009, 04:20 AM
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So Jer asked me a question today on his thread about the pentatonic scale. Now remember, I didn't go to music school so all the theory I am teaching you guys in a week took me 15 years of picking up a nugget here and there. I have always been a diatonic scale guy and really only started incorporating pentatonics in my playing the last couple of years.

Anyways, I have never really analyzed pentatonic scales so when Jer asked that question about Major and Minor pentatonics I decided to analyze them using our modal comparison method. I have included the chart I made up so you guys can follow along.

So check out the chart.... here is what I did:

I wrote out the C major Scale and underneath it I wrote out the other two C Major type modes, C Lydian and C Mixolydian. And finally I wrote out the C major pentatonic scale.

Here is what I found.

The charateristic note of the C lydian Scale is the #4 or F#. The charateristic note of the C Mixolydian mode is the b7 or Bb.

To get the pentatonic scale we drop the two characteristic notes, the IV and the vii dim.

So it looks to me that the Major pentatonic scale is a "neutered" Major scale.
Same thing applies to the Minor scale. Drop the characteristic notes the ii dim and the VI and you get the Minor pentatonic scale

I don't really know what that means but I didn't know that that was where the pentatonic scale came from.

The major pentatonic scale is a neutered major diatonic scale and the minor pentatonic scale is a neutered minor diationic scale.

I am gonna have a chat with Pedja about this and see if I can't delve into it a little deeper and see what else I can find out.

You can never stop learning. smile.gif

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lcsdds
post Mar 4 2009, 07:51 PM
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Guys..For our collab we are working in D lydian. I want all of your thinking to be in terms of D lydian.

When you see a straight D major chord with no extensions...Not Dmaj7 or Dmaj9...plain old D major your reasoning should be this:


D major:

3 major mode options>D Ionian, D lydian and D mixolydian....Our collab is a lydian collab so I want you to use D lydian.

1 Pentatonic option>D major pentatonic....Now technically you could use any of the pentatonic scales found in D lydian, but D major pentatonic is the Strongest choice and I want you thinking in terms of "D" when soloing over a D.

I want all you thinking to be in terms of the chord you are soloing over.

If you are soloing over D major everything should be thought of in terms of D and not the other modes built off of the different notes that comprise the D major type modes.


Don't complicate things....We'll do that soon enough. Our collab is in D lydian so I want you to just use D lydian even though I know you know that there are other options. smile.gif
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