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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 05:07 AM
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Any questions regarding Modes should be posted here. I'll post later and recap again. STAY ON TOPIC so it doesn't get cluttered. smile.gif
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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 06:18 AM
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Dan could you kind of recap the modes thing by breaking down the following Scale:

G Phrygian

Tell me how to find out the best triad/chord options to get the G Phrygian sound. Thanks dude!! smile.gif

Hopefully this will start a discussion. Anybody who doesn't understand what is going on I want you to post in here and we can all jump in and clarify.

I want us all on the same page guys. We are like the Green Berets...Nobody gets left behind. laugh.gif laugh.gif


Stay on Topic. Modes and how to figure out what triads/chords to focus on and why to get the sound of a particular mode

This post has been edited by lcsdds: Mar 3 2009, 06:24 AM
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opeth.db
post Mar 3 2009, 03:13 PM
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G Phrygian

Modes:

Ionian I = Major
Dorian ii = minor
Phrygian iii = minor
Lydian IV = Major
Mixolydian V = Major
Aeolian vi = Minor
Locrian vii = dim

G Phrygian = Minor (Looking at our chart it falls in the iii mode position)
Mode Scale = G Ab Bb C D Eb F
Scale of Comparison = G A Bb C D Eb F (G Aeolian/Minor)

Our different note is Ab which is the note that make G Phrygian sound like G Phrygian.

Our Triads is based on the different note we found comparing the 2 scales falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position of our Triad.

Triads from G Phrygian are:

Abmin = Ab(1st) C Eb
Fmin = F Ab(3rd) C
Ddim = D F Ab(5th)

These triads can be used to build our song for/in G Phrygian.

This post has been edited by opeth.db: Mar 3 2009, 04:38 PM


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jer
post Mar 3 2009, 03:20 PM
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That all looks right to me. I follow.

This line: Our Triads formula is that the different note falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position. I'm not really sure what you mean there.


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kaznie_NL
post Mar 3 2009, 03:58 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 03:20 PM) *
That all looks right to me. I follow.

This line: Our Triads formula is that the different note falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position. I'm not really sure what you mean there.

Jer, we want to make a chord progression with chords from the G Phrygian Mode, which doesn't sound like the Aeolian Mode. So... we want to have the notes that are in Phrygian, but not in Aeolian. Now Opeth told us that the only not in Phrygian (but not in Aeolian) is Ab. So if we make triads with the note Ab, then it won't sound like the Aeolian mode. A triad is build out of three notes (1, 3, 5) so if 1, 3 or 5 is Ab, then we have a triad sounding very phrygian, and not Aeolian. An other way of doing this is to use Monte's chart, find the chords and check whether they are Maj, Min or Dim. Then pick out the chords which are in G Phrygian, but not in Aeolian Mode.


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opeth.db
post Mar 3 2009, 03:58 PM
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Updated post.


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jer
post Mar 3 2009, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE
Our different note is Ab which is the note that make G Phrygian sound like G Phrygian.

Our Triads is based on the different note we found comparing the 2 scales falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position of our Triad.

Triads from G Phrygian are:

Amin = Ab(1st) C Eb
Fmin = F Ab(3rd) C
Ddim = D F Ab(5th)

These triads can be used to build our song for/in G Phrygian.


I know this is the right answer. Not disputing that at all. (though you need to switch your Amin to Abmin)

We know that Ab is the note we need to phrygian the heck out of this one. Do you have some "system" or "shortcut" for knowing that its the Abmin, Fmin, and Ddim chords?

I just look at all 7 and find the ones with Ab in them.

When I read your explanation it sounds to me like you are using some other rule or tip to find them.

This post has been edited by jer: Mar 3 2009, 04:18 PM


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opeth.db
post Mar 3 2009, 04:39 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 10:18 AM) *
I know this is the right answer. Not disputing that at all. (though you need to switch your Amin to Abmin)

We know that Ab is the note we need to phrygian the heck out of this one. Do you have some "system" or "shortcut" for knowing that its the Abmin, Fmin, and Ddim chords?

I just look at all 7 and find the ones with Ab in them.

When I read your explanation it sounds to me like you are using some other rule or tip to find them.


Sorry Typo.


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Ramiro Delforte
post Mar 3 2009, 05:48 PM
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The typical phrygian chord that suggest that scale (or could be a mode of the melodic minor too) is:

Gsus4 b9 = G, Ab, C, D

Also is a really cool chord if you alterate the bass and give some movement.


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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (Ramiro Delforte @ Mar 3 2009, 05:48 PM) *
The typical phrygian chord that suggest that scale (or could be a mode of the melodic minor too) is:

Gsus4 b9 = G, Ab, C, D

Also is a really cool chord if you alterate the bass and give some movement.

Thanks for that Ramiro. Can you expound on that and tell us WHY it is the typical chord that suggest the Phrygian mode? Thanks!! smile.gif
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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE (opeth.db @ Mar 3 2009, 03:13 PM) *
G Phrygian

Modes:

Ionian I = Major
Dorian ii = minor
Phrygian iii = minor
Lydian IV = Major
Mixolydian V = Major
Aeolian vi = Minor
Locrian vii = dim

G Phrygian = Minor (Looking at our chart it falls in the iii mode position)
Mode Scale = G Ab Bb C D Eb F
Scale of Comparison = G A Bb C D Eb F (G Aeolian/Minor)

Our different note is Ab which is the note that make G Phrygian sound like G Phrygian.

Our Triads is based on the different note we found comparing the 2 scales falls in the 1st / 3rd / 5th position of our Triad.

Triads from G Phrygian are:

Abmin = Ab(1st) C Eb
Fmin = F Ab(3rd) C
Ddim = D F Ab(5th)

These triads can be used to build our song for/in G Phrygian.


Very Well done Dan...See you are WAY smarter than Jer said you are!! laugh.gif laugh.gif

\m/\m/


QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 04:18 PM) *
I know this is the right answer. Not disputing that at all. (though you need to switch your Amin to Abmin)

We know that Ab is the note we need to phrygian the heck out of this one. Do you have some "system" or "shortcut" for knowing that its the Abmin, Fmin, and Ddim chords?

I just look at all 7 and find the ones with Ab in them.

When I read your explanation it sounds to me like you are using some other rule or tip to find them.



Why...Yes I do...A chart is on its way. smile.gif smile.gif Dan has a rough draft. smile.gif

QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Mar 3 2009, 03:58 PM) *
Jer, we want to make a chord progression with chords from the G Phrygian Mode, which doesn't sound like the Aeolian Mode. So... we want to have the notes that are in Phrygian, but not in Aeolian. Now Opeth told us that the only not in Phrygian (but not in Aeolian) is Ab. So if we make triads with the note Ab, then it won't sound like the Aeolian mode. A triad is build out of three notes (1, 3, 5) so if 1, 3 or 5 is Ab, then we have a triad sounding very phrygian, and not Aeolian. An other way of doing this is to use Monte's chart, find the chords and check whether they are Maj, Min or Dim. Then pick out the chords which are in G Phrygian, but not in Aeolian Mode.

Good job Kaz!! Don't take any of Jer's crap!!! I got plenty of milkbones if you need them. tongue.gif

This post has been edited by lcsdds: Mar 3 2009, 07:08 PM
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jer
post Mar 3 2009, 07:12 PM
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QUOTE
Good job Kaz!! Don't take any of Jer's crap!!!


What did I do to Kaz???? Oh I see, its gang up on Jer time. That's fine. I can take it. No duelling banjos playing, back woods, dentist is gonna get to me! Do people in Oregon even have teeth? smile.gif



QUOTE
Why...Yes I do...A chart is on its way. Dan has a rough draft.


For real? I figure there has to be a tip or shortcut here. This stuff is anything but random.


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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE
Do people in Oregon even have teeth?


Clarify...Before or After their appointment with me. laugh.gif laugh.gif

QUOTE
For real? I figure there has to be a tip or shortcut here. This stuff is anything but random.



You can look at the chart and decide for yourself. smile.gif
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jer
post Mar 3 2009, 07:50 PM
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where can I find the chart?

(Its cool that we can have a laugh or 3 while we are learning. Really helps my day fly by.)


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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 07:50 PM) *
where can I find the chart?

(Its cool that we can have a laugh or 3 while we are learning. Really helps my day fly by.)

I'm working on it......\m/\m/


I agree about the laughing...gotta make this dry theory stuff fun. smile.gif
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jer
post Mar 4 2009, 04:52 PM
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Something I just noticed on the modes boxes.

On the gp5 file you posted at the very beginning. The Triads, Diatonic, Pentatonic, one...

Look at Ionian, the shape you play on the 1st string, is the same one you play on the 6th string of Dorian. The one you play on the 1st string of Dorian, is the same as 6th string of Phrygian, etc..... This is true all the way through the cycle.

That kind of thing helps me remember them.


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lcsdds
post Mar 4 2009, 06:43 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 4 2009, 04:52 PM) *
Something I just noticed on the modes boxes.

On the gp5 file you posted at the very beginning. The Triads, Diatonic, Pentatonic, one...

Look at Ionian, the shape you play on the 1st string, is the same one you play on the 6th string of Dorian. The one you play on the 1st string of Dorian, is the same as 6th string of Phrygian, etc..... This is true all the way through the cycle.

That kind of thing helps me remember them.

All this stuff turns out to be patterns. Just work on the boxes a little bit each day and soon you will be able to start integrating them into your playing. smile.gif
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jer
post Mar 6 2009, 05:39 PM
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Question:

Using the modes in your playing.

Do you get the flavor of the mode when playing the modal melody/lead over the corresponding major chords? Or do you need the modal chords too?



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lcsdds
post Mar 6 2009, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 6 2009, 05:39 PM) *
Question:

Using the modes in your playing.

Do you get the flavor of the mode when playing the modal melody/lead over the corresponding major chords? Or do you need the modal chords too?

I think a lot of it depends on the chord you are playing over Jer. If you are playing over just a D major chord then you could flavor it Ionian, Lydian or Mixolydian with your lead playing by hanging on the appropriate notes. I think to get the true flavor though, it helps to have an extended chord that is only found in that mode. Like the now infamous E+11. laugh.gif

BTW....I think when you and Dan go to the Opeth concert you should get matchng E+11 tats....Whatcha think? wink.gif tongue.gif
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jer
post Mar 6 2009, 06:17 PM
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Cool. Thanks.


QUOTE
BTW....I think when you and Dan go to the Opeth concert you should get matching E+11 tats....Whatcha think?


No tats for this guy.



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