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> Triad Soloing Options, stay on topic please
lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 05:08 AM
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Triad soloing options discussed here. I'll start the discussion later.


Stay on topic!! Triad soloing options only!!! smile.gif

This post has been edited by lcsdds: Mar 3 2009, 06:29 AM
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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 06:27 AM
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Alright lets get this thread rolling.

To start I need somebody to spell out the following triads:

A Maj

C# min

E Maj

I also need somebody to spell out the following chords:

Amaj7
Amaj9


As soon as we figure out how to spell these triads and chords I'll proceed..... smile.gif
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kaznie_NL
post Mar 3 2009, 07:40 AM
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A Maj is spelled A-Major.... sorry tongue.gif Amaj: A - C#- E
C# min = C# E G#
Emaj = E G# B


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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Mar 3 2009, 07:40 AM) *
A Maj is spelled A-Major.... sorry tongue.gif Amaj: A - C#- E
C# min = C# E G#
Emaj = E G# B

laugh.gif laugh.gif Knew I could count on you to be a smart aleck!! laugh.gif laugh.gif

Good Job on the triads. wink.gif smile.gif

Alright now we just need to know how to spell:

Amaj7 and Amaj9

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jer
post Mar 3 2009, 03:36 PM
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Amaj7 is = A - C#- E - G#

Amaj9 is = A - C# - E - G# - B


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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE
A Maj is spelled A-Major.... sorry Amaj: A - C#- E
C# min = C# E G#
Emaj = E G# B


Thanks Kaz!!! smile.gif

QUOTE
Amaj7 is = A - C#- E - G#

Amaj9 is = A - C# - E - G# - B


Thanks Jer! smile.gif


Alright so we have this:

Amaj=A-C#-E

C#min=C#-E-G#

Emaj=E-G#-B

AND

Amaj7=A-C#-E-G#

Amaj9=A-C#-E-G#-B

NOW

Who can tell me the following:

Amaj7= in terms of triads

Amaj9= in terms of triads


In Ben Stein voice......Anyone, Anyone........

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jer
post Mar 3 2009, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE
Amaj7= in terms of triads

Amaj9= in terms of triads


I dont know what you are asking....

these are 4 note chords...


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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 07:56 PM) *
I dont know what you are asking....

these are 4 note chords...

True. Lets look at them this way:

Amaj7=A-C#-E + C#-E-G#


AND


Amaj9=A-C#-E + C#-E-G# + E-G#-B


NOW....Define them in terms of Triads..... smile.gif
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jer
post Mar 3 2009, 08:54 PM
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Ahh I see.

The maj7 is made by taking the major triad and adding on the triad starting on the 3rd.

The maj9 is made by taking the major triad and adding on the triad starting on the 3rd, then the triad starting on the 5th.


Is that what you are looking for?


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lcsdds
post Mar 3 2009, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 08:54 PM) *
Ahh I see.

The maj7 is made by taking the major triad and adding on the triad starting on the 3rd.

The maj9 is made by taking the major triad and adding on the triad starting on the 3rd, then the triad starting on the 5th.


Is that what you are looking for?

Bingo!!! \m/\m/


Now let's say we are soloing in A Ionian and A major is our first chord.

Remember that I said when soloing I like to start by finding one of the the triads of the chord I am playing over and then visualize my diatonic and pentatonic scales around it. I use the triad as strong starting and ending points to connect my FACEMELTING licks. Right?

So before, over an A major chord we would visualize the A major triad and our scale options, But......with this new little piece of info what have we just done to our options? And.....What are they now? smile.gif

Anybody.....Anybody.....

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jer
post Mar 3 2009, 10:44 PM
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have we given ourselves more "landing zones"?


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lcsdds
post Mar 4 2009, 12:04 AM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 3 2009, 10:44 PM) *
have we given ourselves more "landing zones"?


And...."Starting Zones"!! \m/\m/

And....Ways to connect our licks via arpeggios. \m/\m\

Guitar....It's all about options. \m/\m/ smile.gif




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lcsdds
post Mar 4 2009, 07:32 PM
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Guys....When you see a simple chord with no extensions..so D major not Dmaj7 or Dmaj9...Straight D major.

Here is what I want you brain to be thinking at this point in time:


D major=D-F#-A

If I play a D major triad over it, it will sound like D major.

If I play and F# minor triad over it it will sound like D maj7 because you hear the D major chord and the F# minor chord so you hear D-F#-A-C#=D maj7

If I play an A major triad over it it will sound like D maj9. Same reasoning.

At this point just think this way. We can complicate it later but for now I just want you sticking to triads. Especially for our collab. Once you get the triad reasoning down we will move on to more complicated stuff.

Basically a triad consists of 3 notes. Each note in turn can be used as a root to build another triad.

So:

D major=3 notes=3 triad options to solo with, one for each note in D major.

Chime in if you are lost and let's get this fixed. Chime in as well if you get what I am talking about. smile.gif
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jer
post Mar 4 2009, 07:40 PM
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I follow ya.

Though the concept of soloing using triads has never sounded quite right.... Its 3 notes..... My brain sees triads as chords that fit the scale, thats it.



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fatb0t
post Mar 4 2009, 07:49 PM
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I dunno if I'm allowed to post in here or not, but thanks Monte. I never put that stacking triad concept together fully.. Hm this gives me some ideassss smile.gif Thanks!
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kaznie_NL
post Mar 4 2009, 07:50 PM
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So we use just the Dmaj triad to keep this simple, but we could also have used the F#min triad, because it includes the F#, C# and A note, which (combined with D) gives Dmaj7, same for the other example you gave?


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lcsdds
post Mar 4 2009, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 4 2009, 07:40 PM) *
I follow ya.

Though the concept of soloing using triads has never sounded quite right.... Its 3 notes..... My brain sees triads as chords that fit the scale, thats it.

Start thinking of them as target notes and arpeggios used for soloing as well chords for riffing. You can get alot of mileage out of these bad boys. Do you think I should start a thread for our collab so I can lay out the reasoning I want you to use?

QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Mar 4 2009, 07:50 PM) *
So we use just the Dmaj triad to keep this simple, but we could also have used the F#min triad, because it includes the F#, C# and A note, which (combined with D) gives Dmaj7, same for the other example you gave?

So if you play D triad over a D you get a D major sound.

If you play an F#m triad over a D you get a Dmaj7 sound because you have added the 7th by using the C# in F#min

If you play and A maj triad over a D you get a Dmaj9 sound because you have added the 7th and 9th by adding the C# and E found in A major

So with a simple D major chord you have 3 triad options. D maj, F#m and A maj.
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jer
post Mar 4 2009, 08:03 PM
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Yeah, that would help I'm sure.



you know what would be helpful?

Pictures showing the diatonic scale.

With the triad shape that sits within it.



As I just wrote that I pictured a drawing of a constellation with 3 named stars in it, pointed out and highlighted. Those stars are the triad, and the constellation is the diatonic scale.



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lcsdds
post Mar 4 2009, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (fatb0t @ Mar 4 2009, 07:49 PM) *
I dunno if I'm allowed to post in here or not, but thanks Monte. I never put that stacking triad concept together fully.. Hm this gives me some ideassss smile.gif Thanks!

Glad you learned something Johnathon. Now....go apply it and melt some faces!!! smile.gif

QUOTE (jer @ Mar 4 2009, 08:03 PM) *
Yeah, that would help I'm sure.



you know what would be helpful?

Pictures showing the diatonic scale.

With the triad shape that sits within it.



As I just wrote that I pictured a drawing of a constellation with 3 named stars in it, pointed out and highlighted. Those stars are the triad, and the constellation is the diatonic scale.


I'll see what I can come up with. Hopefully though, you guys can see why learning these triads can be useful. You can get the sound of a maj7 or maj9 chord by just playing the correct triad over it. This is called superimposing. smile.gif


QUOTE (kaznie_NL @ Mar 4 2009, 07:50 PM) *
So we use just the Dmaj triad to keep this simple, but we could also have used the F#min triad, because it includes the F#, C# and A note, which (combined with D) gives Dmaj7, same for the other example you gave?

Exactly Kaz!! \m/\m/

QUOTE (jer @ Mar 4 2009, 07:40 PM) *
I follow ya.

Though the concept of soloing using triads has never sounded quite right.... Its 3 notes..... My brain sees triads as chords that fit the scale, thats it.

Don't think of them as triads when soloing, think of them as arpeggios. Triads played one note at a time. I could show you a bunch of lessons on GMC where you see cool sweeps and they are played using basic triad shapes. smile.gif

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jer
post Mar 9 2009, 08:57 PM
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I'm not 100% sure I am on the same page when it comes to "triad soloing options".

I understand that a major triad is the major chord for that scale.

The 1-3-5

In A maj the scale = A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#

So the Amaj triad = A, C#, E

And in looking at our very first handout I see that the 4 major triad shapes in the key of A are:

-0- --- --- ---
-2- -2- --- ---
-2- -2- -2- ---
--- -2- -2- -2- These are labeled "1st position"
--- --- -4- -4-
--- --- --- -5-

The A maj scale here would be this: (it could be others but this works too)

---------2------4---5--
---------2---3------5--
-----1--2------4-------
--0-----2------4-------
--0-----2------4-------
------------------------

So when soloing in Amaj in this area of the neck, the triad notes would be your good "Hang Notes". And the entire scale is your playground of notes to use. I understand that much.

Correct?


What I don't quite follow is the definition of "Triad soloing options"

To me we are soloing in Amaj. Period. We're not soloing in the triad/ We're soloing in the scale. The triad notes are just the main ones of the Amaj scale. Knowing the triad shape is useful so we know where to land and hang, but I don't see it as "soloing with the Amaj triad in the 1st position." If that were the case we'd be concentrating on 3 notes instead of 7.

Do you see what I'm saying?

What do you mean by "Triad Soloing Options"?




Also, I dont know what this means.

QUOTE
And....Ways to connect our licks via arpeggios. \m/\m\


I also find it confusing that the "positions" used for the scales dont line up with the triads.

For example:

Look at the A Ionian scale starting at the 5th fret. (on our handout)

The one starting on 5th fret, 6th string, and ending on 12th fret of the 1st string. That is labeled 1st position.

There are 3 triads represented in there. 2 from the 2nd position major triad list and 1 from the 3rd position major triad list.

That confuses me. When I'm learning 1st position triads, I'd expect them to be the same as the 1st position scale. This makes understanding this difficult for me.



This post has been edited by jer: Mar 9 2009, 08:38 PM


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