Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Note Choice In Improvisation- Stuck!
SpeeedyT
post Mar 9 2009, 07:07 PM
Post #1


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 30-September 08
From: SF, CA, USA
Member No.: 6.003



I tried to find a previous thread that addressed my issue with no luck. I, like many GMCer's am stuck trying to learn to improvise. I've been playing for many years and have achieved noteworthy speed, accuracy, and technique. I have a general understanding of theory. I'm starting with pentatonics to make it a little easier but I cannot seem to make real music.

The Question: Is there some kind of rule about improvising over chords? I understand the concepts of creating tension in the sound but I can't put it together. Is there an Am progression I should be starting with? Is there an order of techniques to approach improvising in an easier way? When is it proper to use leading tones, tensions tones, etc...

THANK YOU ALL!!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 9 2009, 07:17 PM
Post #2


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 25.396
Joined: 20-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.341



For starters mate, you should work on theory more if you wanna learn to improvise. Diatonic theory is something that must be learned in order to be a good musician. Learn all the 12 keys, and learn the progressions that are derived in each of them. Also learn the scales well, and know how modes and chords relate to each other within a key. This is a good starting point. Check out Andrew's theory lessons if you haven't already, and go through them systematically mate.
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=3351


--------------------
- Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons
- (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel
- Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Mar 9 2009, 07:21 PM
Post #3


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



You just have to listen to other players and "steal"
new and fresh ideas, that's how it goes. smile.gif


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SpeeedyT
post Mar 9 2009, 07:28 PM
Post #4


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 30-September 08
From: SF, CA, USA
Member No.: 6.003



QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Mar 9 2009, 11:17 AM) *
For starters mate, you should work on theory more if you wanna learn to improvise. Diatonic theory is something that must be learned in order to be a good musician. Learn all the 12 keys, and learn the progressions that are derived in each of them. Also learn the scales well, and know how modes and chords relate to each other within a key. This is a good starting point. Check out Andrew's theory lessons if you haven't already, and go through them systematically mate.
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...?showtopic=3351


Thanks, Ivan. I have an understanding of all 12 keys and modes. I took Emir Hott's advice to learn as many licks as I can and start with pentatonics, then move on to modes. I study Fretboard Logic III and have learned the progression of chords and their meanings/characteristic sounds. I will normally put together an 8 bar progression in 4/4 with 4 chords and loop it on my GT-10 to improvise over it but, I still can't make music! I know the CAGED system well with chords, lead patterns, and scales. I want to learn to play very slowly and make extremely melodic music, minor key oriented.

This post has been edited by SpeeedyT: Mar 9 2009, 07:31 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Emir Hot
post Mar 9 2009, 08:21 PM
Post #5


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 7.201
Joined: 14-July 08
From: London UK
Member No.: 5.490



If you learned scale shapes you're on a good way. Now you need to put those notes into some logical structure. Try different rhytmical patterns with 4-5 different notes and see what's coming out. Try triplets, syncopated lines etc... Technique and feel is also important. Everything is somehow important. If you like minor keys and slow melodic playing, try the backing from my first collaboration and go for A minor scale or A minor pentatonic. It is rock ballad style in A minor key.

Here is the backing
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...t=0&start=0

Here you can hear 27 different takes from participants and all my video comments
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...t=0&start=0

If you want a lesson in similar style then try this
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...ck-ballad-solo/

It's a slow backing in minor key but melodic playing with some shred licks


--------------------
Check out my <a href="https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/instructor/Emir-Hot" target="_blank">Instructor profile</a>

www.emirhot.com
www.myspace.com/emirhotguitar
www.myspace.com/sevdahmetal
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Mar 9 2009, 08:24 PM
Post #6


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



Note choice when improvising, 1st step is always chord tone or arpeggio of some sort !

I am running collaboration based on soloing with that only and its diatonic in key of C major. Perhaps you can check it out and join in HERE


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 9 2009, 09:26 PM
Post #7


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 25.396
Joined: 20-November 07
From: Belgrade, Serbia
Member No.: 3.341



QUOTE (SpeeedyT @ Mar 9 2009, 07:28 PM) *
Thanks, Ivan. I have an understanding of all 12 keys and modes. I took Emir Hott's advice to learn as many licks as I can and start with pentatonics, then move on to modes. I study Fretboard Logic III and have learned the progression of chords and their meanings/characteristic sounds. I will normally put together an 8 bar progression in 4/4 with 4 chords and loop it on my GT-10 to improvise over it but, I still can't make music! I know the CAGED system well with chords, lead patterns, and scales. I want to learn to play very slowly and make extremely melodic music, minor key oriented.


These things just take time mate, you can't learn all of this at once, it's a slow process IMO. Just take it easy and it will come. Focus more on songwriting skills and chord progressions to really understand the chords and their relationships. Mix and match chords withing a key and try to make some simple 3 chord songs for starters with a simple melody. Make a structure of the song - any structure and start slowly. Lots of the songs you write will be only for practice - remember that. You can't make a hit if you haven't made a bunch of bad songs and learned on that experience. Just focus on that and it will be OK.

Check out my songwriting lessons for an interesting concept when choosing chords. I hope it will be of use of you mate.
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/misc-less...writing-lesson/



--------------------
- Ivan's Video Chat Lesson Notes HERE
- Check out my GMC Profile and Lessons
- (Please subscribe to my) YouTube Official Channel
- Let's be connected through ! Facebook! :)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SpeeedyT
post Mar 9 2009, 09:58 PM
Post #8


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 11
Joined: 30-September 08
From: SF, CA, USA
Member No.: 6.003



QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Mar 9 2009, 12:24 PM) *
Note choice when improvising, 1st step is always chord tone or arpeggio of some sort !

I am running collaboration based on soloing with that only and its diatonic in key of C major. Perhaps you can check it out and join in HERE



Hi Pedja, can you please elaborate a little more when you say to start with a chord tone or arpeggio? Depending on the style/feel you are going for, do you normally have a structure or interval relationship you follow? Thanks again!

P.S. I will more than likely join your collaboration at the end of this week.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Muris Varajic
post Mar 9 2009, 10:06 PM
Post #9


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 15.459
Joined: 22-June 07
From: Sarajevo,Bosnia
Member No.: 2.159



https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/writin...o-strong_notes/

Check that lesson, listen to explanations,
eventually you'll figure out some strong notes
for your own playing. smile.gif


--------------------
Youtube
MySpace
Website



Album "Let It Out" on
iTunes
and CD Baby

Check out my video lessons and instructor board!

The Pianist
tune is progress,check it out!

"ok.. it is great.. :P

have you myspace? Can i to personalize this for you guy?"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Pedja Simovic
post Mar 9 2009, 10:20 PM
Post #10


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 8.109
Joined: 13-September 08
From: Nis, Serbia
Member No.: 5.892



QUOTE (SpeeedyT @ Mar 9 2009, 09:58 PM) *
Hi Pedja, can you please elaborate a little more when you say to start with a chord tone or arpeggio? Depending on the style/feel you are going for, do you normally have a structure or interval relationship you follow? Thanks again!

P.S. I will more than likely join your collaboration at the end of this week.


I am not sure I understand your question entirely ?

If you start and end your melodies with a chord tone, they are more likely to sound stronger.

If your backing chord is C major, then you can start/end your melody with C E and G notes !
Hope that makes sense smile.gif


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Daniel Robinson
post Mar 10 2009, 12:56 PM
Post #11


Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 560
Joined: 22-March 08
From: Normal, Illinois
Member No.: 4.670



Note choice is what all guitarists struggle with. It gets easier with time, and experience.

I mean, when i listen to someone like Andy Timmons, i am always amazed of the color variations of his note choices. Sometimes i wish i could crawl into the head of someone like that and just see what makes them choose certain notes over others.


The first thing you can try is experimenting with simple backing tracks. What i mean by simple, if you have a backing track that is just power chords and a bass plugging away on the root.

Theory wise a track like that only has a Root and a 5th. So you can experiment with different variations of 3's 4's 6's and 7ths. This is an ear training exercise as well, to know what different elements sound like.

The more chord layers a song has the harder it is to "Draw outside the lines". Thats why its easier to start with a very simple chord structure.


Its a matter of taste too, your ear specifically picks up on certain elements within a track then mine does, and vice versa. This comes back to who influences you.


Muris is right as well, learning licks to add to your lick bag is a great way to improve your skills with this as well.

What i like to do is learn two licks from two different artists and break each lick into two parts and mash them together with the other lick.


Another thing you could try is just listening to who inspires you, and analyze what they are doing theory wise, you may find alot of well known artists if you break it down have things they like to do over and over. (More then you would recognize just listening to the music)

Especially rhythmic groupings, i don't want to give anything away but listen to your favorite player and listen to the solo's they play and i bet you find a pattern emerging with the rhythmic groups they like to employ ALOT.

Daniel


--------------------
Check out my video lessons!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
fatb0t
post Mar 10 2009, 03:14 PM
Post #12


GMC:er
*

Group: Members
Posts: 1.202
Joined: 25-November 07
Member No.: 3.373




When I improvise I follow the progression around a lot, I believe it's called 'chord tone' soloing. Basically I will land on a root, third, or fifth interval of the chord in the progression.

Now sometimes with arpeggios I will stack triads. So say we have a progression in Eminor with the chords: Em Am Bm
For the Em we have the notes E G B. When the progression lands on the Eminor I can play a G major traid (G B D) over the E min triad making an Em7 chord. This gives me a lot of options. I can go a step further and stack a Bm traid ontop of the Em chord to give it a Em9 feel and so on.

Sometimes when the progression lands on an Eminor I will sweep a Gmajor then a B minor triad - it adds a ton of flavor! Even with tons of distortion you can make complex chords which is really refreshing for metal playing.

Scales standing alone are pretty useless. I mean, you can make riffs and stuff like that but all the color from solos comes from the chords BEHIND it.

It's a 50/50 relationship, a ying yang of sorts. They both need to exist for either to have any sort of musical value.

So follow those chords around and stack triads!!!!

PS. big thanks to Monte for teaching me about stacking triads!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Mar 10 2009, 03:46 PM
Post #13


Jazz Instructor
Group Icon

Group: GMC Instructor
Posts: 2.691
Joined: 1-October 08
From: Belgrade
Member No.: 6.012



Basically, if it sounds good, it is good. Harmonically, melodically, whatever. Don't think to much about note choices, progressions, you're not computer you cannot think that fast. Work on some songs with one or two chords, and play just one scale over it until you get familiar, then move to next key, or next position. Keep it simple!


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Fast ReplyReply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 


RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 26th July 2017 - 01:41 PM