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> Pedja's Collab, Please sign up if you can
lcsdds
post Mar 10 2009, 04:31 AM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 10 2009, 04:19 AM) *
yeah, I see what you are saying. They are in there. I'm not real sure how that helps me. When we only have the 1-3-5-7 notes to work with they are pretty much all good starting and landing notes aren't they?

Jer....I told you in one of my posts today that I was going to make little etudes for the different techniques. I'm gonna take this opportunity to work on an arpeggio etude. Like this:

https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/sweep-etude/

Try doing something similar. You don't need to play 16th triplets. You can play 8th notes or triplets. I'm gonna give you guys some triad shapes and some ideas as well. Don't worry dude....I'm not gonna just throw you in the water and say "swim". laugh.gif

I have wrote the first four bars tonight. I'll post the tab for you guys tomorrow and you can see what I am doing. You don't have to just play the triad shapes. You can put the notes all on one string and tap it. You can put the 7th and root on the B string and the 3rd and 5th on the high E and play triplets or 16th. Vai does this All the Time. I'll walk you guys through it. When I say triads I mean the notes of the triad just as much as I mean the shapes. You gotta think and be creative. That is what playing guitar is about. It's easy to just learn a tab. It's harder to try and write something yourself...but it gets easier.....only if you try and work on it though. That is what this collab is about. Triads and arpeggios...Chord tones.

I'll give you guys a tab tomorrow with a few different shapes to work with.
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jer
post Mar 10 2009, 04:34 AM
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I don't know what "etude" means.

QUOTE


WTF is this????? Hell no.



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Outlaw2112
post Mar 10 2009, 04:39 AM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 10 2009, 04:34 AM) *
I don't know what "etude" means.



WTF is this????? Hell no.

lol... he has me working on this one also

Im still on the first box laugh.gif


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lcsdds
post Mar 10 2009, 04:40 AM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 10 2009, 04:34 AM) *
I don't know what "etude" means.



WTF is this????? Hell no.

Dude...you don't have to play 16th triplets. Do 8th notes and work on flowing from one arpeggio to the next. Use quarter notes if you want. I'll show you tomorrow. I showed you that so you could get an idea of what an etude is. Basically a "musical excercise". I don't expect you to play something like that. That was all triad shapes BTW. smile.gif
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jer
post Mar 10 2009, 04:41 AM
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I am completely clear on what Pedja's collab is about. That is explained in his initial post.

Soloing using the chord tones. Which are all pictured in his post.

I did 8 bars of this tonight. I've been working on it for over 2 hours.

I see notes. And I know there are triad shapes in there. I see em. But I can play EVERY Note in there.

So I don't see the significance of the 1-3-5 notes. With the exception of the 7 its ALL triad notes.

Its like using a highlighter and coloring every word on the page. If we were using the 1-2-3-4-5-6-7 of the scale, then I think it would mean something.

I understand pedja's collab.

I understand triads. I just have found no use for triads yet.



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lcsdds
post Mar 10 2009, 04:42 AM
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QUOTE (Outlaw2112 @ Mar 10 2009, 04:39 AM) *
lol... he has me working on this one also

Im still on the first box laugh.gif

So am I....at a whopping 60 KU's. The point of this is to show you the possibilities for triad shapes. You want to learn to sweep? Start here. These are BASIC triad shapes just played at warp speed. Nothing more. smile.gif
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Outlaw2112
post Mar 10 2009, 04:52 AM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Mar 10 2009, 04:42 AM) *
So am I....at a whopping 60 KU's. The point of this is to show you the possibilities for triad shapes. You want to learn to sweep? Start here. These are BASIC triad shapes just played at warp speed. Nothing more. smile.gif

yeah you can say that again... warp speed!!! laugh.gif

Its all good though, im having fun doing them.. did my 90 minutes and more tonight biggrin.gif


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jer
post Mar 10 2009, 04:55 AM
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QUOTE
I'm gonna upload a tab you can use if you choose. Don't need it...you could do the whole thiing by just taking each chord and breaking it up into its component triads and using one or both of them.


I thought all we needed were the chord tones. Which are already pictured in the collab thread.

bar 1 = use the cmaj7 dots.
bar 2 = use the amaj7 dots.
bar 3 = use the dmaj7 dots.

etc...

Its clear that those are the 1-3-5-7 of the scales. So every dot on there without a 7 is a triad note. I dont know why that matters here. But I do understand it.

But still, it just comes back to "Here are the notes of the chords, solo with them."

Or am I missing something?





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lcsdds
post Mar 10 2009, 04:55 AM
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QUOTE (Outlaw2112 @ Mar 10 2009, 04:52 AM) *
yeah you can say that again... warp speed!!! laugh.gif

Its all good though, im having fun doing them.. did my 90 minutes and more tonight biggrin.gif

John....Did you sign up for Pedja's collab?

When we get done with this collab guys....I promise you won't regret it. It is gonna teach you alot of ways to connect your licks......COOL WAYS. Trust me on this. I know it might seem pointless right now but you won't regret it. smile.gif
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Outlaw2112
post Mar 10 2009, 04:58 AM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Mar 10 2009, 04:55 AM) *
John....Did you sign up for Pedja's collab?

When we get done with this collab guys....I promise you won't regret it. It is gonna teach you alot of ways to connect your licks......COOL WAYS. Trust me on this. I know it might seem pointless right now but you won't regret it. smile.gif

I got home late, i asked if there was room but havent gotten a reply back yet... Hopefully ill get in.
but to answer your question, yes i tried to sign up for his collab...


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lcsdds
post Mar 10 2009, 04:58 AM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 10 2009, 04:55 AM) *
I thought all we needed were the chord tones. Which are already pictured in the collab thread.

bar 1 = use the cmaj7 dots.
bar 2 = use the amaj7 dots.
bar 3 = use the dmaj7 dots.

etc...

Its clear that those are the 1-3-5-7 of the scales. So every dot on there without a 7 is a triad note. I dont know why that matters here. But I do understand it.

But still, it just comes back to "Here are the notes of the chords, solo with them."

Or am I missing something?

You are spot on Jer. It's not the 1-3-5-7 of the scale. It is the 1-3-5-7 of the arpeggio and the 1-3-5-7 changes every time you change chords.
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Emir Hot
post Mar 10 2009, 08:56 AM
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This collab is really easy and extremely useful. I can't wait to hear many different ideas. Great starting approach for a good improvisation is by playing the chord notes.

/C maj7 / A min7 / D min7 / G7 /

You can also think of this progression like this:

C maj7 = Ionian - 1, 3, 5, 7
A min7 = Aeolian (natural minor) - 1, b3, 5. b7
D min7 = Dorian - 1, b3, 5, b7
G7 = Mixolydian - 1, 3, 5, b7

The numbers represent the chord notes taken from the scale (mode). These notes are called 'Arpeggio' if they are played one after another in no particular order smile.gif If you play them all at the same time then you played a chord.

I have also signed up. Good luck everybody and see you there in the upload thread smile.gif


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jer
post Mar 10 2009, 01:38 PM
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QUOTE
You are spot on Jer. It's not the 1-3-5-7 of the scale. It is the 1-3-5-7 of the arpeggio and the 1-3-5-7 changes every time you change chords.


They are the notes of the scale.

bar 1 = cmaj
bar 2 = amaj
bar 3 = dmaj

etc....

Chords, arpeggios, triads, all of that is built from scales.

The Dmaj7 chord is the 1-3-5-7 of the Dmaj scale.




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Pedja Simovic
post Mar 10 2009, 01:58 PM
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Guys I just posted my take for collaboration.
You can download it HERE


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lcsdds
post Mar 10 2009, 02:37 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 10 2009, 01:38 PM) *
They are the notes of the scale.

bar 1 = cmaj
bar 2 = amaj
bar 3 = dmaj

etc....

Chords, arpeggios, triads, all of that is built from scales.

The Dmaj7 chord is the 1-3-5-7 of the Dmaj scale.

You are correct Jer. The challenge here is gonna be to make the arpeggios flow from one to the next. I'll give you guys examples of what to do. I think you are just picturing your self fingering a triad shape and going "OK.....now what?" There is way more you can do with this stuff. I'll show you...I promise. Check out Pedja's take for a good example. smile.gif
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jer
post Mar 10 2009, 03:01 PM
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QUOTE
I think you are just picturing your self fingering a triad shape and going "OK.....now what?" There is way more you can do with this stuff. I'll show you...I promise. Check out Pedja's take for a good example.


No. I'm listening to the first bar, Cmaj7 and looking at that collection of Cmaj7 notes and playing a lick I wrote over it.

Then doing the same for Amin7, and Dmin7 etc....

And its going fine. (meaning I am playing original music that I created, I'm not real happy with what I am coming up with, but its a start. Since I only have the "right" notes available to me its all in key and sounds fine.)

I'm not seeing the relevance of "triads" here. Earlier we defined triads as the building blocks for chords. And the starting/landing notes for leads. Makes sense to me.

Well I only have those notes to pick from anyway.

Maybe if we took this out further and started using all of the scale tones, then it'd make sense.

Right now I'm playing Cmaj7 notes. Call em Cmaj7 notes, call 3 of them triads, call them whatever. All 4 of them work. I guess 3 of them are special. But 3 out of 4 doesnt mean much. 3 out of 7 would be different.

Is this supposed to be something I notice NOW or later?




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lcsdds
post Mar 10 2009, 03:19 PM
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QUOTE (jer @ Mar 10 2009, 03:01 PM) *
No. I'm listening to the first bar, Cmaj7 and looking at that collection of Cmaj7 notes and playing a lick I wrote over it.

Then doing the same for Amin7, and Dmin7 etc....

And its going fine. (meaning I am playing original music that I created, I'm not real happy with what I am coming up with, but its a start. Since I only have the "right" notes available to me its all in key and sounds fine.)

I'm not seeing the relevance of "triads" here. Earlier we defined triads as the building blocks for chords. And the starting/landing notes for leads. Makes sense to me.

Well I only have those notes to pick from anyway.

Maybe if we took this out further and started using all of the scale tones, then it'd make sense.

Right now I'm playing Cmaj7 notes. Call em Cmaj7 notes, call 3 of them triads, call them whatever. All 4 of them work. I guess 3 of them are special. But 3 out of 4 doesnt mean much. 3 out of 7 would be different.

Is this supposed to be something I notice NOW or later?



Jer...the whole point of this collab is to come up with interesting ways to play something just using chord tones. It is restrictive...Pedja is trying to get us to think in terms of chord tones here. You are right....we could create WAY cooler lines by adding in some scale tones as well. We'll get to that. For now just try and focus on the chord tones. Remember....Cmaj7 contains 2 triads....Cmaj and Emin. I'm gonna give you some shapes you can use today to spice things up as well. Keep working Jer. By focusing on this aspect of lead playing you will easily be able to pick out where good starting and ending notes are when creating other lead lines. You will also get an idea of how to just use arpeggios to create lines. You don't need to be able to sweep to play arpeggios. smile.gif
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jer
post Mar 10 2009, 03:48 PM
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nevermind,

I'm not making myself understood at all.




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lcsdds
post Mar 10 2009, 04:50 PM
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Here is what I am playing the second time through the chord progression on Pedja's collab. Notice that when you just look at it that it looks like I am doing a scalar run. I am just playing the arpeggios. I am putting the 7th and root on the lower string and the 3rd and the 5th on the higher string. On the first bar I am playing a Cmaj7 arpeggio on the Low E and A then repeating it an octave higher on the D and G strings and then finishing it off yet another octave higher on the B and High E. Not one triad shape involved. I am doing the same thing for the other chord changes.

You guys don't need to play quintuplets of 16th triplets....You can play 8th notes or 8th triplets. You can also take the approact that Pedja did in his take and just try and make it more melodic. I am wanting to use this as a way for me to practice different arpeggio runs so I am taking this approach.

The secon picture is the first time through the progression. You can see for Cmaj7 I just use a sweep shape and then over the Amin7 I string the notes out all on one string and tap. Then for the Dmin7 I use another tapping shape....Same shape as the first picture but I just add on a tapped note on the high string.....and then string out the G7 notes again all on one string and play another tapping phrase. Again..not one triad SHAPE....just using the chord tones. smile.gif

This post has been edited by lcsdds: Mar 10 2009, 04:56 PM
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lcsdds
post Mar 10 2009, 05:33 PM
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Here is a tab of some two string 7th arpeggio shapes played in three octaves. Think of these a 4 note scales. I tabbed one for every 7th chord used in the collab. I also gave you some 4 string shapes starting from the "A string". These are laid out to where you have a shape starting from every note in the arpeggio. I didn't give you a shape for the dominant 7th chord yet or a shape starting from the 3rd or 5th of the minor 7th shape. I'll get these to you later and update the tab. This shoud give you alot of different options to play for the collab. Give them a try. I'll go into a little more detail later on today. smile.gif

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