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> What Scales?, Crazy question...
Toroso
post Mar 13 2009, 06:39 PM
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If I have a chord progression, how do I go about determining what scales I can use over that progression?


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lcsdds
post Mar 13 2009, 06:43 PM
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QUOTE (Toroso @ Mar 13 2009, 06:39 PM) *
If I have a chord progression, how do I go about determining what scales I can use over that progression?

Toroso....You can do it in one of two ways.

1)You can take each chord individually and figure out what scales you can use on that specific chord.

OR

2)You can see if the whole chord progression belongs to one scale and use the scale that the chord progression comes from to solo over it.


Do you have an example of a chord progression you are trying to solo over?

This post has been edited by lcsdds: Mar 13 2009, 06:44 PM
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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 13 2009, 06:46 PM
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There are several ways: you could try and write down all the notes of the chords, and see if that forms some kind of scale. Example:

C = C, E, G
F = F, C, A
G = G, B, D

You see that gives you: C D E F G A B, which is all the notes from the C major scale. Then there's a whole talk of modes and such...

QUOTE (lcsdds @ Mar 13 2009, 06:43 PM) *
Toroso....You can do it in one of two ways.

1)You can take each chord individually and figure out what scales you can use on that specific chord.

OR

2)You can see if the whole chord progression belongs to one scale and use the scale that the chord progression comes from to solo over it.


Do you have an example of a chord progression you are trying to solo over?


Super-fast dentist! I condemn you to go be ashamed of yourself for answering so fast! I thought, that finally I could answer a post first!

This post has been edited by Caelumamittendum: Mar 13 2009, 06:46 PM


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Toroso
post Mar 13 2009, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Mar 13 2009, 01:43 PM) *
Toroso....You can do it in one of two ways.

1)You can take each chord individually and figure out what scales you can use on that specific chord.

OR

2)You can see if the whole chord progression belongs to one scale and use the scale that the chord progression comes from to solo over it.


Do you have an example of a chord progression you are trying to solo over?


Well, this one at the moment, G5, Bb5, C5. What I'm getting at tho, is that I pull down backing tracks and usually all I will get is the key and sometimes the progression. So I want the knowledge to figure this out for myself. smile.gif


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lcsdds
post Mar 13 2009, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Mar 13 2009, 06:46 PM) *
Super-fast dentist! I condemn you to go be ashamed of yourself for answering so fast! I thought, that finally I could answer a post first!

Shred Dentist!!! tongue.gif laugh.gif
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Toroso
post Mar 13 2009, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Mar 13 2009, 01:46 PM) *
There are several ways: you could try and write down all the notes of the chords, and see if that forms some kind of scale. Example:

C = C, E, G
F = F, C, A
G = G, B, D

You see that gives you: C D E F G A B, which is all the notes from the C major scale. Then there's a whole talk of modes and such...



Super-fast dentist! I condemn you to go be ashamed of yourself for answering so fast! I thought, that finally I could answer a post first!


You may not have been first! But I understand your approach! Thanks smile.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 13 2009, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (Toroso @ Mar 13 2009, 06:47 PM) *
Well, this one at the moment, G5, Bb5, C5. What I'm getting at tho, is that I pull down backing tracks and usually all I will get is the key and sometimes the progression. So I want the knowledge to figure this out for myself. smile.gif


So you should try and figure out what notes are in those three power chords and see what they forms. smile.gif I know the answer but won't give it to you! laugh.gif


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Oxac
post Mar 13 2009, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (Toroso @ Mar 13 2009, 06:39 PM) *
If I have a chord progression, how do I go about determining what scales I can use over that progression?


Depens on your style. If you're into pop 'n rock you'd probably just use the scale with the most notes shared with the chords you're using.

IE. you have D G A, Emin F#min G D A. What scale would you use?

In the chords you have the following notes. D F# A, G B (D is already there), C# E, which gives us: D F# A G B C#. The D ionian scale.

If you have a progression with a dominant chord it's easy to identify the scale to use because the dominant chord is from the fifth note of the scale, in D major it will be A7.

Though, in Jazz it's pretty common to use other things.

IE. over an E7 you can play F melodic minor. That will give us the root (E) b2, b3, 3, #4, #5, b7. But that goes into deeper theory.

smile.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 13 2009, 06:51 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Mar 13 2009, 06:48 PM) *
Shred Dentist!!! tongue.gif laugh.gif


Fluid legato-dentist legatoing through your patiens teeth. laugh.gif


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Toroso
post Mar 13 2009, 06:51 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Mar 13 2009, 01:50 PM) *
So you should try and figure out what notes are in those three power chords and see what they forms. smile.gif I know the answer but won't give it to you! laugh.gif



Awrite! Let me cypher on it then. tongue.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 13 2009, 06:53 PM
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When you have figured the notes of the chords out, you will see, in the style of Muris - Soloing strong notes lesson, that the notes of the chords will be strong notes on that exact chord. E.g when a B minor chord is being played, strong notes will be B, F# and D. These will sound the best, while other notes will create other kinds of moods and tension over the same chords. When changing to the next chord in the progress, there will be other strong notes.


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Emir Hot
post Mar 13 2009, 06:57 PM
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for these G5, Bb5, C5 you can use Gm pentatonic over all 3 chords and it would work. If you want to extend you can try Bb major scale over G and Bb and C mixolydian over C chord.


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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 13 2009, 06:58 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Mar 13 2009, 06:57 PM) *
for these G5, Bb5, C5 you can use Gm pentatonic over all 3 chords and it would work. If you want to extend you can try Bb major scale over G and Bb and C mixolydian over C chord.


You ruined it, you! tongue.gif


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Toroso
post Mar 13 2009, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Mar 13 2009, 01:53 PM) *
When you have figured the notes of the chords out, you will see, in the style of Muris - Soloing strong notes lesson, that the notes of the chords will be strong notes on that exact chord. E.g when a B minor chord is being played, strong notes will be B, F# and D. These will sound the best, while other notes will create other kinds of moods and tension over the same chords. When changing to the next chord in the progress, there will be other strong notes.


Is that a Muris lesson you're referring to? I'll have to look it up.

OK, I came up with G,D,(A#/Bb),F,C. I cheated and used the sooper-dooper reverse scale tool and got A# pentatonic major or G pentatonic minor. There were some other scales that I'm at all familiar with.

This post has been edited by Toroso: Mar 13 2009, 07:12 PM


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Matt23
post Mar 13 2009, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (Toroso @ Mar 13 2009, 05:47 PM) *
Well, this one at the moment, G5, Bb5, C5. What I'm getting at tho, is that I pull down backing tracks and usually all I will get is the key and sometimes the progression. So I want the knowledge to figure this out for myself. smile.gif


Well that sounds like a rock backing so you should use G Minor Pentatonic/Blues. I'll give you some advice though on how to work this out for yourself.

Most of the time, the first chord will determine the key of the music, i.e. Cmaj7, would be Csomething, or Fmin9 would be Fsomething. The chord which sounds most finished determines the key of the song. Therefore the key of this chord progression is G.

Then you have to break up each individual chord. So for this chord progression:

G5=G+D
Bb5=Bb+F
C5=C+G

If you put all of these notes in a scale you get: G Bb C D F.

Of common scales this could make the Minor Scale (Aeolian), Phrygian, Dorian, Minor Pentatonic and Blues, if you added in the relevant notes. This means you can use any of them with that chord progression. There are lots of exotic scales you could use but they are not very commonly used so it is easier just to ignore them. If you want to look at some then look at Ramiro's Exotic Scales series.

You then have to decide which scale to use by listening to the chord progression and knowing what the scales that can be used sound like. I recognised this progression as a common rock progression (sorry if it isn't where you're using it), and therefore thought the Minor Pentatonic/Blues scales were most appropriate as they are very common rock scales. Any of the scales I listed could have been used though.

Hope this helps smile.gif

Matt
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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 13 2009, 07:04 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Mar 13 2009, 06:48 PM) *
Shred Dentist!!! tongue.gif laugh.gif


Alright... I got a new one here... just came up with it while doing the dishes:

Shred'ntist! laugh.gif


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Toroso
post Mar 13 2009, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (Matt23 @ Mar 13 2009, 02:01 PM) *
Well that sounds like a rock backing so you should use G Minor Pentatonic/Blues. I'll give you some advice though on how to work this out for yourself.

Most of the time, the first chord will determine the key of the music, i.e. Cmaj7, would be Csomething, or Fmin9 would be Fsomething. The chord which sounds most finished determines the key of the song. Therefore the key of this chord progression is G.

Then you have to break up each individual chord. So for this chord progression:

G5=G+D
Bb5=Bb+F
C5=C+G

If you put all of these notes in a scale you get: G Bb C D F.

Of common scales this could make the Minor Scale (Aeolian), Phrygian, Dorian, Minor Pentatonic and Blues, if you added in the relevant notes. This means you can use any of them with that chord progression. There are lots of exotic scales you could use but they are not very commonly used so it is easier just to ignore them. If you want to look at some then look at Ramiro's Exotic Scales series.

You then have to decide which scale to use by listening to the chord progression and knowing what the scales that can be used sound like. I recognised this progression as a common rock progression (sorry if it isn't where you're using it), and therefore thought the Minor Pentatonic/Blues scales were most appropriate as they are very common rock scales. Any of the scales I listed could have been used though.

Hope this helps smile.gif

Matt



Thanks Matt smile.gif This is a rock track and G Pent minor looks to be a good one.


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Emir Hot
post Mar 13 2009, 07:08 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Mar 13 2009, 05:58 PM) *
You ruined it, you! tongue.gif


haha why? You guys are making the whole science about 3 chords smile.gif I wrote an easy and quick approach for that progression. G5, Bb5 and C5 is very common progression in any style and since they are all power chords it shouldn't be that complicated. I would personaly use Gm pentatonic over all 3 chords and I am sure it would work. In case that G5 gives a (major chord) impression then I would use major pentatonic. Speaking about the tension and the strong notes of the scale is something we could talk for hours. I thought Toroso was looking for an easy and straightforward answer. Pedja could elaborate about this progression in 15000 words but I don't think Toroso was looking for that whole science smile.gif


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lcsdds
post Mar 13 2009, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Mar 13 2009, 07:04 PM) *
Alright... I got a new one here... just came up with it while doing the dishes:

Shred'ntist! laugh.gif

SWEET!!! I'm gonna put it on my name tag at the office: Dr. Monte Stevens-Shred'ntist laugh.gif smile.gif tongue.gif

That should get a few questions! tongue.gif
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Caelumamittendum
post Mar 13 2009, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Mar 13 2009, 07:08 PM) *
haha why? You guys are making the whole science about 3 chords smile.gif I wrote an easy and quick approach for that progression. G5, Bb5 and C5 is very common progression in any style and since they are all power chords it shouldn't be that complicated. I would personaly use Gm pentatonic over all 3 chords and I am sure it would work. In case that G5 gives a (major chord) impression then I would use major pentatonic. Speaking about the tension and the strong notes of the scale is something we could talk for hours. I thought Toroso was looking for an easy and straightforward answer. Pedja could elaborate about this progression in 15000 words but I don't think Toroso was looking for that whole science smile.gif


That was really not what I was reffering to. smile.gif I tried not to make a whole science about it. I just wanted Toroso to try and figure it out him self with a few tools to do so, and you were just the first to write the answer wink.gif


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