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vampire18
post Mar 20 2009, 05:58 PM
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even though i feel my technical skills really improving im much faster and much more precise and clean.

anyways i ran into some questions someone asks guitar players and unfortunately i felt like my question to every single question was yes.i dont know what to do or how to change that face. any thoughts on how can i turn the yeses to noes??


You feel overwhelmed by how many scales you need to learn. Let's face it. There are huge numbers of scales that you could learn. It is sometimes hard to even know where to start! This frustration and overwhelm can make you feel less enthusiastic about your guitar practice.

You struggle with using scales in a musical way. Often guitar players don't make music when they solo. They just sound like they are running up-and-down scales. They have no idea how to use scales in a musical and interesting way.

You can't visualize scales effortlessly over the ENTIRE fretboard. This can be really frustrating! It feels like you're "locked" into one part of the fretboard when you solo.

You play scales without truly HEARING them. Often guitar players haven't totally internalized the sounds of the scales that they use. This can lead to a very unmusical and mechanical style of soloing. It can also lead to an inability to play-by-ear easily and confidently.

You see scales as patterns NOT notes. Many guitarists make the mistake of only learning scales as patterns. Often they are not totally aware of what notes are used in the scales. Knowing the notes of a scale can really help you understand where to use the scale when you are improvising.

You struggle with moving fluidly between different parts of the fretboard. This lack of ability to play a scale seamlessly over the entire fretboard can lead to a very rigid, disjointed and unmusical soloing style.

You struggle with applying scales in real-life playing situations. Guitarists often find it challenging to jam with other musicians using the scales that they have just learnt in their practice room. Often they can't adapt their scale knowledge to a new and unfamiliar situation. There just seems to be a piece of the puzzle missing.


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Andrew6
post Mar 20 2009, 06:48 PM
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I definitely know where you are coming from with this one I feel the same way! The only scale I am really comfortable with is the minor pentatonic and its still sketchy at best sad.gif


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Bogdan Radovic
post Mar 23 2009, 01:08 PM
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For some organization check out this topic https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/guitar_fo...t=0&start=0 by Andrew!

Now all topics you mentioned have lessons covering them so try using search box (and advanced search and defining keywords).

Here is a lesson about connecting boxes and going up and down the neck :
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...sliding-lesson/
https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/solo-guit...osition-switch/

For more musical approach to improv check out David's lesson , there are many phrasing lessons covering that subject!

For ex. https://www.guitarmasterclass.net/ls/lick-c...lass-beginners/

About not Hearing the scales...Try incorporating ear training while practicing scales.Just play and sing notes at the same time while you do your regular exercises...It will help a LOT in short amount of time.

It takes a long time to learn how to improvise successfully , just be a little patient and it will CLICK IN soon enough! smile.gif

I didn't understand about YES or NOs , if you ask questions and get the YES answer then it means you are right all the time ?? Its good to be right that means you already knew the answer when you asked , why would you want to be wrong about things you ask ??

Cheers! smile.gif

This post has been edited by Bogdan Radovic: Mar 23 2009, 01:09 PM


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-Zion-
post Mar 23 2009, 03:07 PM
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I too am still struggling with learning scales and more importantly learning how to use them..

I think the reason we learn the patterns in the beginning is to get fairly easy into solo playing.. learn a few boxes and you have LOADS of fun playing over a backing.. also, i think we learn the pattern because we want to be able to play in EVERY key there is without having to think too much about what key we are in..

but, at some point, when we expand our knowledge of the scale and overall theory we will no longer be content with "just" playing the patterns.. we want to learn the relationships between the chords and the notes.. and this is where it becomes a bit tricky..

and i am also still struggling very much with learning the notes on the entire fretboard, but i believe that in the end, knowing every note will make me a better player..

btw.. when referring to "we" above i am of course *only* referring to myself.. haha.. wink.gif
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vampire18
post Mar 23 2009, 05:13 PM
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you what i just realised? and maybe it was obvoius to everyone but i jstu find out today. take the first song that comes to your mind and try to whistle it.




no problom ha? now try to take that same song that you dont know how to play on the guitar and play it. im guessing at least most of us cant at least not on the first try. that how i want to become with the guitar im guessing some of the instructors here have it. they are in complete control over their instrument just as we talk or whistle or sing anything we want i want to be able to do the same with my guitar


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mattacuk
post Mar 23 2009, 05:23 PM
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In addition to what has already been mentioned, I would advise spendin a little time every day doing fret board drills to really in-grain nowledge of the notes on your fret board. I used a fret board "trainer" drill software application to learn the notes and it has really improved my musical skills because I know what I am playing now smile.gif

Knowing the fretboard in terms of notes as well as, patterns also enables you to make more sense of chords. If you know what notes chords are constructed from, and some simple chord progressions you have a solid foundation from which to create more musical sounding solos/leads.

Hope this helps a little!


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vampire18
post Mar 23 2009, 05:31 PM
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yah i have recently got a hold of that program and i will start training with it.
what do you guys recommend the hear training program that goes with it or that cute website that i saw a link to here?


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mattacuk
post Mar 23 2009, 05:35 PM
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Oh and something else I forgot to mention, try not to get to hung up all on the scales and chords you could learn. Alot of great guitarists often only use a few different keys.

Take my hero paul gilbert, he uses the key of E-Minor ALOT, he often states its one of his favorite keys. Sure he has an in depth knowledge of theory, chords and scales but the point im trying to make is that if you pick the most common keys your likely to use just concentrate on them.

I practice pretty much all my technique in E-Minor / G-Major, and will only worry about learning other keys when needed. The great thing about guitar is you can learn specific shapes not just for scales, but also chords.

Now if you know the notes on your fretboard you can easily slide these chord shapes around making things alot easier for you smile.gif


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mysql> SELECT * FROM master_name WHERE ((firstname = 'Paul') AND (lastname = 'Gilbert'));


"The Fundimental Difference between Paul Gilbert and Buckethead is that Paul Explores the Good side of the force, while Buckethead Explores the Dark Side of the Force" :)
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vampire18
post Mar 23 2009, 07:01 PM
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i think that improving me ear and my fretboard knowledge is probably the best and most efficient thing i can do to evolve as a musician and a guitarist


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Paiva
post Mar 23 2009, 07:28 PM
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Hey guys can you please tell me the name of the fretboard "trainer" program?

Thanks ^^


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vampire18
post Mar 23 2009, 07:44 PM
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Absolute Fretboard Trainer PRO


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Paiva
post Mar 23 2009, 07:46 PM
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QUOTE (vampire18 @ Mar 23 2009, 06:44 PM) *
Absolute Fretboard Trainer PRO



thanks dude wink.gif


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Boss RC-2



2nd song :) Please go check it and post something ;) (again link below)


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Crazy_Diamond
post Mar 23 2009, 07:50 PM
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I also feel like I don't really listen to what I play. I have found this ear training website the other day and I found it pretty interesting. Here is the link http://www.maximummusician.com/playguitarbyearintro.htm

Hope this is going to help.


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GuitarMonkey
post Mar 23 2009, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (vampire18 @ Mar 20 2009, 10:58 AM) *
even though i feel my technical skills really improving im much faster and much more precise and clean.

anyways i ran into some questions someone asks guitar players and unfortunately i felt like my question to every single question was yes.i dont know what to do or how to change that face. any thoughts on how can i turn the yeses to noes??


You feel overwhelmed by how many scales you need to learn. Let's face it. There are huge numbers of scales that you could learn. It is sometimes hard to even know where to start! This frustration and overwhelm can make you feel less enthusiastic about your guitar practice.

You struggle with using scales in a musical way. Often guitar players don't make music when they solo. They just sound like they are running up-and-down scales. They have no idea how to use scales in a musical and interesting way.

You can't visualize scales effortlessly over the ENTIRE fretboard. This can be really frustrating! It feels like you're "locked" into one part of the fretboard when you solo.

You play scales without truly HEARING them. Often guitar players haven't totally internalized the sounds of the scales that they use. This can lead to a very unmusical and mechanical style of soloing. It can also lead to an inability to play-by-ear easily and confidently.

You see scales as patterns NOT notes. Many guitarists make the mistake of only learning scales as patterns. Often they are not totally aware of what notes are used in the scales. Knowing the notes of a scale can really help you understand where to use the scale when you are improvising.

You struggle with moving fluidly between different parts of the fretboard. This lack of ability to play a scale seamlessly over the entire fretboard can lead to a very rigid, disjointed and unmusical soloing style.

You struggle with applying scales in real-life playing situations. Guitarists often find it challenging to jam with other musicians using the scales that they have just learnt in their practice room. Often they can't adapt their scale knowledge to a new and unfamiliar situation. There just seems to be a piece of the puzzle missing.

I have a lot of the very same feelings. I am not comfortable with any scales. I do know the minor pentatonic, but whenever I play it, well...I cannot get it to soundbut like anything but a scale. I have tried slides, bends..etc. The scale sounds nothing at all like anyone who solos in it.

This post has been edited by GuitarMonkey: Mar 23 2009, 07:56 PM


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ErikEklund
post Mar 23 2009, 07:59 PM
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I allso feel like that sometimes, my tip is to just listen to any player here at gmc or any other player and steal some ideas that you like from them smile.gif
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mattacuk
post Mar 23 2009, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (Paiva @ Mar 23 2009, 06:46 PM) *
thanks dude wink.gif


Well worth the purchase, I have no regets. The only "problem" is that it can be very time consumeing tongue.gif


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Farmer Joe
post Mar 24 2009, 12:10 AM
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man, i'm just learning the basics of playing and I get frustrated. I see other people stepping up from the level that i am at right now very quickly and I just seem to be going so slowly, but I guess you just have to keep at it. Keep learning new things and apply them slowly, incorporating them into the things you already know a little at a time. All I know now is the minor pentatonic scale at 2 positions, i'm learning the third now. Besides that I'm still working on Muris' Strumming and Arpeggio lesson for the MTP program, I've been stuck on it for the past couple weeks and i just feel like I can't get it, and its such a simple lesson too, now that's frustrating haha laugh.gif
Just got to keep playing and learning


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 24 2009, 01:58 AM
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Don't worry, it's a period that we all have to go through. Eventually things will fit into place like a giant puzzle. Diatonic theory is actually very easy and interconnected once you get the hang of it, so I just recommend pushing further, and practicing hard. Scales will come into head, intervals and notes will be recognizable by ear, you will learn to listen what you play, and it usually comes much sooner than people think! smile.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Mar 24 2009, 02:16 AM
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We have talked about this in chat the other night...

Those are all really valid points and things you are worried about ( so to say ). It has become really easy for me after so many years of playing, practicing, teaching, to actually spot on every guitar player area that they are missing. Or lets say after two lessons I can already know gaps in that guitar players development...

You need to approach everything you do as composer. Its good to practice technique, I get that most guys just want to play fast and be like new Paul Gilberts, Malmsten and such, but can get you into very dangerous place... Thats exactly the areas you were talking about. Playing scales up and down , practicing technique with metronome every day, eventually you start soloing like you were practicing ! So, it is really important to become aware of this from very beginning and focus your practice on different areas.


Here is what I suggest to all my students regarding their practice routine. This is from my own experience and all the knowledge that I have brought this all in one place so to say.

- Technique (left and right hand)
- Repertoire (songs that you enjoy and ones to aim for in future - near and far future)
- Ear Training/Transcribing (practicing interval and chord sounds, essential leading to ability to transcribe any music without any instrument as reference !)
- Improvising ( it puts your mind into creative mode and opens up all the practice areas you've been working on)
- Recording ( really important to do as by listening you can analyze your playing best and remove and add things to it)
- Arranging ( learning about other instruments, writing for whole band/orchestra, great way of letting your ideas live)
- Songwriting (very similar thing to improvising but the only difference is you don't have to do it in real time, you can do 4 bars today, 1 bar tomorrow and have the whole piece in one year smile.gif
- Jamming, playing with other people (essential as you can learn a lot from other people better than you).
- Rhythm study (teaches you how to create question answer type of phrases and to make your melodies more interesting and stronger).

I am pretty sure this is the whole list. I am sorry in advance if I missed something, I will check it soon and let you know.

Let me know if you have any questions, I would be happy to help you out.

Pedja


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