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> Legato/ap Fingering
AdamB
post Mar 26 2009, 01:57 PM
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Yo,

I can't seem to determine what the rule is on fingering for 3nps patterns...

Take this for example...

|--------17p16p14-------

With that, I'd use 4th, 3rd, 1st fingers. But each time I watch another guitarist I see them using 3rd, 2nd, 1st fingers for this. This does seem more logical as those fingers are stronger, so should I train myself to use 1,2,3 rather than 1,3,4 for this?

another example I find hard to decide on is:
|--------------------12h14h16---
|-------12h14h15----------------

again, I'd do 1st, 3rd, 4th, then 1st, 2nd, 4th. Though that seems a little tricky to get my fingers in the right place fast enougth.

What do you guys use?
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AlexLion
post Mar 26 2009, 02:13 PM
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No, you should always use pinky when it is situation like that, it`s like 1 finger per fret. Of course you can use your 3rd finger instead, but this can make poor results after quite a time and your pinky will be weaker than other fingers.
Oh, and for 12-14-16 or similar 1-2-4 fingering will be right, might be tricky a bit a start, bbut after some time you get used to it:)

This post has been edited by AlexLion: Mar 26 2009, 02:16 PM
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Artemus
post Mar 26 2009, 02:13 PM
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Get comfy with one way and then try the other. That way you're prepared for whatever is thrown at you. Sometimes fingering depends on what comes next but generally there is no right or wrong way.
For your last example I'd personally use the following fingering: 1st 2nd, 3rd, then 1st 2nd 4th - that way there's less movement/stretching between your fingers when changing to the next string

This post has been edited by Artemus: Mar 26 2009, 02:16 PM


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 26 2009, 02:17 PM
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I would use index-ring-pinky for both combinations, but you can do it any way you feel comfortable with man.


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TheOldOnes
post Mar 26 2009, 02:18 PM
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I used to use my pinky like Alex describes but I recently switched to fingers 123 for some of this stuff. It took a while to get used to it but I found it frees up my pinky for other stuff. I would advise to get used to both ways because sometimes it better one way depending on what comes after or what came before.
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Pedja Simovic
post Mar 26 2009, 02:20 PM
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This was very good question !

I have learned to use 4th finger whenever possible. In your 1st example it is possible to do fingers 1 2 3 as well as 1 3 4. It all depends what comes after it. In 2nd example you can go couple of ways 1 3 4 1 3 4; 1 2 3 1 2 4; 1 2 3 1 3 4 ...

If you watch a lot of guitarists out there, you will see that most of them use 4th finger frequently. On the side note, when I saw Guthrie Govan first time play, it immediately popped to my mind how he mostly sticks to fingers 1 2 3 and uses 4th finger for huge stretches or for arpeggio shapes.

Practice both ways, see what feels right to your hand. You shouldn't feel any discomfort !


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AdamB
post Mar 26 2009, 03:20 PM
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Okykoke, not sure if it's time for me to try switching to make sure I know both. I can do the current fingering at 16th note sextuplets at 80bpm, but that's my limiting speed at the moment, seems to be 80-85bpm. Which is a bit of a pain as most of the backings I'm using are 60bpm and 90bpm so I'm stuck inbetween them somewhere... :S

I'll persist with the way I've been doing it for a while longer I think...

On another note - do you guys find that you tend to get stuck at the same speed for a long time? I've been at 80bpm like this for a long time now (about a year...) playing 3nps patterns. I can do string skips and straight modal scale patterns at this speed, but not any faster. I can't see any obvious flaws in my technique as I've been paying a lot of attention to it. Is it ment to take this long?

I think my eventual goal is to be able to do 16th note sextuplets through modal patterns at 130bpm comfortably. I've been doing modal scales for almost 2 years and progressed quickly at first but I've been in this slump for most of the time. Grrr!
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lcsdds
post Mar 26 2009, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (AdamB @ Mar 26 2009, 03:20 PM) *
Okykoke, not sure if it's time for me to try switching to make sure I know both. I can do the current fingering at 16th note sextuplets at 80bpm, but that's my limiting speed at the moment, seems to be 80-85bpm. Which is a bit of a pain as most of the backings I'm using are 60bpm and 90bpm so I'm stuck inbetween them somewhere... :S

I'll persist with the way I've been doing it for a while longer I think...

On another note - do you guys find that you tend to get stuck at the same speed for a long time? I've been at 80bpm like this for a long time now (about a year...) playing 3nps patterns. I can do string skips and straight modal scale patterns at this speed, but not any faster. I can't see any obvious flaws in my technique as I've been paying a lot of attention to it. Is it ment to take this long?

I think my eventual goal is to be able to do 16th note sextuplets through modal patterns at 130bpm comfortably. I've been doing modal scales for almost 2 years and progressed quickly at first but I've been in this slump for most of the time. Grrr!

What do you do to increase your speed? Metronome? Usually when I get stuck at a speed it is because I am not spending enough time playing the lick slowly. If your top speed is 80 bpm playing 16th triplets through 3nps scales do you spend anytime playing the patterns at 50, 60, and 70 bpm? How exactly do you practice these shapes?
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Artemus
post Mar 26 2009, 03:27 PM
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Yes I do hit brickwalls with my speed quite a lot and without the time to dedicate to undiluted practise I tend to stay at that speed until I find the time to hammer out mammoth guitar practising sessions. I think I make more progress when I aim for very small increments in progress. I used to make big goals for myself to get 10bpm faster within an unreasonable timeframe. I end up just getting impatient and frustrated and sloppy so now I only ever aim to go 2-4 bpm faster than my confortable speed.
Again: slow and steady wins the race.. but there is no race to the finish line. Heck, there ain't no finish line - we can always improve no matter how good we are.


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lcsdds
post Mar 26 2009, 03:33 PM
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QUOTE (Artemus @ Mar 26 2009, 03:27 PM) *
Yes I do hit brickwalls with my speed quite a lot and without the time to dedicate to undiluted practise I tend to stay at that speed until I find the time to hammer out mammoth guitar practising sessions. I think I make more progress when I aim for very small increments in progress. I used to make big goals for myself to get 10bpm faster within an unreasonable timeframe. I end up just getting impatient and frustrated and sloppy so now I only ever aim to go 2-4 bpm faster than my confortable speed.
Again: slow and steady wins the race.. but there is no race to the finish line. Heck, there ain't no finish line - we can always improve no matter how good we are.

So true Artemus. If ten years ago I had seen videos of some of the stuff I can play now I would have told you that I would be satisfied with being able to play that well. I still see myself as a hack and try and push myself harder and harder to improve. I think we tend to focus more on what we CAN'T do well rather than what we CAN do well. Even Muris and Emir say they still need to improve.....WHATEVER!!!! tongue.gif laugh.gif

This post has been edited by lcsdds: Mar 26 2009, 03:33 PM
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AdamB
post Mar 26 2009, 04:13 PM
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I use a metronome, I do finger independance every day for 45 mins to a metronome at 60bpm, then do sweeps at about 100bpm at 16th note (not sextuplets) (I do 100bpm as I can do sweeps faster than this cleanly).

I then do muris single string E ioninan which is what my 'random lesson' was a couple weeks back (as I chose a lesson at random to do from the sites random search results and then I do these until I feel I've improved at it.) I do this for 45 mins a day, 15 at 60bmp, 15 at 90bpm and then another 15 at 60bpm. I find 90bpm very hard and 60bpm very easy...

I then do a speed burst exercise, I think it was from troy stetina's book speed mechanics. I think muris did a similar one so I will probably start doing that one to get a backing track to use. I do this at similar to the previous, starting at 60bpm and then up it to 80bpm and then up to 90bpm if I'm feeling brave but usually this is bad...

I then do 45 mins of legato patterns I find hard in a similar way.

I also do a couple hours just learning songs/practicing song parts to a metronome at 60->80bpm.

I did post my full routine a little while back as I started to add more structure to the way I practice, but thats roughtly what it is built up of.
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lcsdds
post Mar 26 2009, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (AdamB @ Mar 26 2009, 04:13 PM) *
I use a metronome, I do finger independance every day for 45 mins to a metronome at 60bpm, then do sweeps at about 100bpm at 16th note (not sextuplets) (I do 100bpm as I can do sweeps faster than this cleanly).

I then do muris single string E ioninan which is what my 'random lesson' was a couple weeks back (as I chose a lesson at random to do from the sites random search results and then I do these until I feel I've improved at it.) I do this for 45 mins a day, 15 at 60bmp, 15 at 90bpm and then another 15 at 60bpm. I find 90bpm very hard and 60bpm very easy...

I then do a speed burst exercise, I think it was from troy stetina's book speed mechanics. I think muris did a similar one so I will probably start doing that one to get a backing track to use. I do this at similar to the previous, starting at 60bpm and then up it to 80bpm and then up to 90bpm if I'm feeling brave but usually this is bad...

I then do 45 mins of legato patterns I find hard in a similar way.

I also do a couple hours just learning songs/practicing song parts to a metronome at 60->80bpm.

I did post my full routine a little while back as I started to add more structure to the way I practice, but thats roughtly what it is built up of.


It sounds like you are doing pretty well. Try this for a month and see if it works:

Take a 3nps scale pattern and figure out what your top speed is playing 16th triplets. Let's say your top speed is 100bpm. Set the metronome at 60 bpm and play it for 1-2 minutes. Do the same for 70, 80, 90, 100 and 110 bpm. After a week increase all those tempos by 5 bpm. See if that helps. I think if you spend more time at the "in between" tempos rather than just really slow and top speed.....you will see some progress. Just pick 1 lick in your routine and try this for a month. If it works then you can apply it to anything you are practicing. Let me know if it works for you. smile.gif
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AdamB
post Mar 26 2009, 04:59 PM
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That's good advice, yea I think I'll give that a try. I suppose the only reason I do it the way I do is because of hte backing tracks and lazyness. I will try this instead for 2 weeks and see what happens...
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