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> What Do You Compormise When Going To E Flat?
vampire18
post Mar 29 2009, 09:23 AM
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in guitar its always compromises. thinner strings is less tone but easier to bend and fret.
i recently dropped my guitar to E flat and it feels pretty good. easier to bend to fret and you get a thicker sound i think and all the scales stay the same. so what do i "loose" from it?


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Jesse
post Mar 29 2009, 10:52 AM
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the 22th fret?

the 22th fret?


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vampire18
post Mar 29 2009, 10:56 AM
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but you gain the -1 fret so im not sure its that important. you can bend to it anyways


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Andrew6
post Mar 29 2009, 11:00 AM
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Well you have to be aware all your chords and scales are actually slightly different now (especially when playing with other musicians) I.e. someone in standard tunning plays an Aminor your Aminor is actually AbMinor in the same fingering.


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vampire18
post Mar 29 2009, 11:05 AM
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basically if i want to match with him i should play 1 fret higher. but i meant more if there is a different in tone or in handling the guitar. or maybe harder to pick or something like that. i mean E flat at least from what im playing is much better than standart


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Jakub Luptovec
post Mar 29 2009, 11:08 AM
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And basicly in Eb tuned guitar (theoreticly) you would need the Eb note, to be the highest, rather than E - Minor 2nd is hardly a desired interval to hear for natural harmonics etc. so the downtuning kinda solves the range-issue by itself.

Even, if you needed it, just hold the 1st fret on high e string and do tap harmonic 24 frets up. It will be slightly off the neck, but its still doable

EDIT: Regarding post #5

There is a slight change in tension. The strings are looser. Also the intonation might get screwed up by the downtuning (12+ frets are not in tune) - especially, if you have Floyd Rose (or similiar floating bridge) equipped guitar

This post has been edited by Jakub Luptovec: Mar 29 2009, 11:10 AM


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Andrew6
post Mar 29 2009, 11:16 AM
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Jakub is right, I have a guitar that is constantly half-step down tuned and its floating bridge, but I had to set it up for the new tension of the strings otherwise the intonation is horrid. So if you have a floating trem remember how much of pain it is to go back to standard tongue.gif . I don't think there really is a "best" tuning per say it all depends on the feel of the song and personal preference. I know Lian, Marcus Lavendell and Marus Siepen all use Half-Step down tuning in some of their lessons.


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Mar 29 2009, 12:33 PM
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You can probably compromise your guitar setup, so it needs to be adjusted, specially if you have floating bridge.


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Axamentia666
post Mar 29 2009, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE (Jakub Luptovec @ Mar 29 2009, 10:08 AM) *
And basicly in Eb tuned guitar (theoreticly) you would need the Eb note, to be the highest, rather than E - Minor 2nd is hardly a desired interval to hear for natural harmonics etc. so the downtuning kinda solves the range-issue by itself.

Even, if you needed it, just hold the 1st fret on high e string and do tap harmonic 24 frets up. It will be slightly off the neck, but its still doable

EDIT: Regarding post #5

There is a slight change in tension. The strings are looser. Also the intonation might get screwed up by the downtuning (12+ frets are not in tune) - especially, if you have Floyd Rose (or similiar floating bridge) equipped guitar


i had a guitar tech setup my floater, so i can go between Drop D, 1/2 step and standard with the fine tuners and still get the intonation spot on, mind you good luthiers are hard to find these days!


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Andrew6
post Mar 29 2009, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE (Axamentia666 @ Mar 29 2009, 08:53 AM) *
i had a guitar tech setup my floater, so i can go between Drop D, 1/2 step and standard with the fine tuners and still get the intonation spot on, mind you good luthiers are hard to find these days!

I used to have my Jackson set up to between drop D and standard with the fine tuners, I didnt bother this time its not really all the difficult! When I did I believe I just Tightened the fine tuner almost all the way before putting the locks back on that way I had lots of lead way to lower it.


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Guitarman700
post Mar 29 2009, 01:14 PM
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I tune Down to drop B flat, and if i use the right string guage, in this case 13 58, my tone and string tension is fine. you will need a setup though, especially if you change gauges.


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Axamentia666
post Mar 29 2009, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE (Guitarman700 @ Mar 29 2009, 12:14 PM) *
I tune Down to drop B flat, and if i use the right string guage, in this case 13 58, my tone and string tension is fine. you will need a setup though, especially if you change gauges.


Im fine with guage changes, or drop tunings my solution doesnt involve string changes setups, or tone loss... i just change guitar! laugh.gif (Anyone who plans gigging with a floyd should always have multiple guitars, it must be a law somewhere!!)


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Bogdan Radovic
post Mar 29 2009, 01:37 PM
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If you do the setup on your guitar for that tuning , you shouldn't be loosing anything really...Tone difference is not that big and many bands play in this tuning.


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kjutte
post Mar 29 2009, 08:10 PM
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1: All scales moved one step up.
2: re-set springs, intonation.

If you're doing it to maintain your vibrato with a higher gauge, I'd say it's not worth it.
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vampire18
post Mar 29 2009, 08:17 PM
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actually i did it cause i was learning a couple of lians lessons.
and i don't know it feels really comfortable.. everything bends more easily and i get a deeper tone.


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Jakub Luptovec
post Mar 29 2009, 10:24 PM
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Thats why a lot of bluesmens did this:) Not only Eb minor sounds more bluesy then E minor, the smaller string tension also allowed to those as SRV to make those huge bends (2 whole tones IIRC).

Another thing is, that this allows you to use thicker strings (but thats more the case of D standart and lower...). SRV is one of the examples again:P I heard somewhere, he used 14's? Not sure now tho... What I know is that the tension destroyed his hands in the end. smile.gif

PS: Dont know why, but Eb5 is much heavier than E5 IMO:))

This post has been edited by Jakub Luptovec: Mar 29 2009, 10:32 PM


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kjutte
post Mar 30 2009, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (vampire18 @ Mar 29 2009, 09:17 PM) *
actually i did it cause i was learning a couple of lians lessons.
and i don't know it feels really comfortable.. everything bends more easily and i get a deeper tone.


You can just play the lesson in Eb instead, lol. If he's tuned to Eb that means he plays everything on the guitar in "E" if you get what I mean.

QUOTE (Jakub Luptovec @ Mar 29 2009, 11:24 PM) *
Thats why a lot of bluesmens did this:) Not only Eb minor sounds more bluesy then E minor, the smaller string tension also allowed to those as SRV to make those huge bends (2 whole tones IIRC).

Another thing is, that this allows you to use thicker strings (but thats more the case of D standart and lower...). SRV is one of the examples again:P I heard somewhere, he used 14's? Not sure now tho... What I know is that the tension destroyed his hands in the end. smile.gif

PS: Dont know why, but Eb5 is much heavier than E5 IMO:))


Overrated IMO.
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Jakub Luptovec
post Mar 30 2009, 05:44 PM
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what is overrated, might I ask?


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Marcus Siepen
post Mar 30 2009, 05:58 PM
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All of my guitars are in this tuning since more than 20 years, trust me, you don't lose anything!


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-Zion-
post Mar 31 2009, 11:05 PM
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i am not sure i agree with you guys on this one.. at least for me..

and here is why..

i am a fairly new player as i've not even played for a year yet.. i am struggling to learn the fretboard and all the notes on it.. this is a pretty big task and it's not very fun.. which is also why i haven't gone into it with my heart and soul (yet)..

I've learned a couple of scales.. the minor and major pentatonic as well as the major scale..

and here is my point.. i learn the notes on the fretboard.. i learn some scales.. but in order for me to "really" use the scales i need to know how each note sounds.. and tuning my guitar down even a half step would seriously prohibit me in learning the sound of the notes..

"Yeah yeah.. but you just go up x number of steps and you are back at your 'real' note"- you say?

the thing is.. when in the process of learning the fretboard you imprint your mind with where the notes are and how they sound, and if you suddenly have to constantly remind yourself that "oh no.. this is actually the flat note".

in my opinion this is too much to think of when you already have so much.. i have therefore decided to play only in regular tuning at least until i completely know the fretboard and how each note sounds..
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