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> Pirate Bay Guys In Jail !, Check this out
sigma7
post Apr 18 2009, 11:29 PM
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QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Apr 18 2009, 04:47 PM) *
GMC should also watch out. We have links to Youtube here with copyrighted material, wich could be some trouble. And same goes for pretty much everyone with a blog or a homepage.



agreed, i accidentally download a video when i wanted a backing track to put on cubase


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MickeM
post Apr 18 2009, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Apr 18 2009, 11:47 PM) *
GMC should also watch out. We have links to Youtube here with copyrighted material, wich could be some trouble. And same goes for pretty much everyone with a blog or a homepage.

With the current (confusing) precedent I think you're right, we do need to be careful. Which by the way was our intention all along.


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Koopid
post Apr 19 2009, 01:34 AM
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QUOTE (ErikEklund @ Apr 19 2009, 12:13 AM) *
I cant feel sorry for this guys, they knew what they did.


Thats not what the problem is, the problem is if they are putting innocent people in jail. They knew what they did, I don't feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the swedish legal system when they are starting to put people in jail because someone with a big purse wants them to.


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Canis
post Apr 19 2009, 02:35 AM
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QUOTE (Koopid @ Apr 19 2009, 02:34 AM) *
Thats not what the problem is, the problem is if they are putting innocent people in jail. They knew what they did, I don't feel sorry for them. I feel sorry for the swedish legal system when they are starting to put people in jail because someone with a big purse wants them to.

Sounds extremely like capitalism, in my ears.

Even though the four owners knew exactly what their site was used for, and even encouraged it, they didn't do anything and can't be put in jail, imo. Unless the government takes it as "unintentional" (meaning for example that rule where you're sent to prison for a accidental murder where you accidently left a bananapeel on the top of a stairs, or something)..



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MickeM
post Apr 19 2009, 10:09 AM
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QUOTE (Canis @ Apr 19 2009, 03:35 AM) *
a accidental murder where you accidently left a bananapeel on the top of a stairs, or something

Just a small detail and off topic, I know what you mean but just thought I'd mention that a murder has to be _planned_ to be called a murder. Even if it's just for a fraction of a second worth of planning before the deed wink.gif


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Red
post Apr 19 2009, 10:43 AM
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QUOTE (Fsgdjv @ Apr 18 2009, 11:47 PM) *
Today I'm ashamed to be swedish.


You got a point there smile.gif


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fkalich
post Apr 19 2009, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE (AlexLion @ Apr 18 2009, 03:02 AM) *
Well i don`t watch\read news and watch TV that`s a brain degrading IMO laugh.gif At least here smile.gif


wow, that is two of us. I rarely meet anyone who follows that policy. I assume you do for the same reason I do, I prize my gray cells.

Regarding the theft, to me it is no different than breaking into someone garage. Nobody wants their stuff stolen, it is their property, case closed. If people are hungry and they steal food, ok, but this is not for starving people, it is for people who want stuff for free. I just paid $600 for software, and I certainly can't afford it, but I am not going to steal.

Sorry. They need to make an example out of these guys. I hope they castrate them. There are millions working in those industries getter hurt by this, regular people, not just evil corporations involved here. Nobody here wants his stuff stolen, you want to let some guy steal your guitar, because he can't afford one? Why not, if you think this is ok?
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Marek Rojewski
post Apr 19 2009, 11:30 AM
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Open a bar, and than be sentenced to castration because of the drug dealer that used it to sell his stuff. After all, example must be made. Nobody wants their kids buying drugs after all...
In communism courts weren't free, they were controlled in some degree by the state, and people knew it was wrong. Now courts are manipulated by media and people that are lauder than other... And some people don't thing it is wrong...Without respecting the law, court is just a tool. And rest assured that such tool will be abused...


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Koopid
post Apr 19 2009, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Apr 19 2009, 12:23 PM) *
wow, that is two of us. I rarely meet anyone who follows that policy. I assume you do for the same reason I do, I prize my gray cells.

Regarding the theft, to me it is no different than breaking into someone garage. Nobody wants their stuff stolen, it is their property, case closed. If people are hungry and they steal food, ok, but this is not for starving people, it is for people who want stuff for free. I just paid $600 for software, and I certainly can't afford it, but I am not going to steal.

Sorry. They need to make an example out of these guys. I hope they castrate them. There are millions working in those industries getter hurt by this, regular people, not just evil corporations involved here. Nobody here wants his stuff stolen, you want to let some guy steal your guitar, because he can't afford one? Why not, if you think this is ok?


Your missing the point man.

In your rather weird comparasy I would put the guy that made the crowbar used to breaking into the garage in jail, not the person stealing the property.


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fkalich
post Apr 19 2009, 11:48 AM
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QUOTE (Koopid @ Apr 19 2009, 05:38 AM) *
Your missing the point man.

In your rather weird comparasy I would put the guy that made the crowbar used to breaking into the garage in jail, not the person stealing the property.


They are providing the means for the criminal activity, and profiting from it. Everyone knows what torrents are primarily for, come on, get real. That is the thing about courts, in general they decide based on what is reasonable. The reality is, they were providing means for criminal activity, and profiting from that, by revenues generated by the web sites. That is prosecutable anywhere on earth.
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Koopid
post Apr 19 2009, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Apr 19 2009, 12:48 PM) *
They are providing the means for the criminal activity, and profiting from it. Everyone knows what torrents are primarily for, come on, get real. That is the thing about courts, in general they decide based on what is reasonable. The reality is, they were providing means for criminal activity, and profiting from that, by revenues generated by the web sites. That is prosecutable anywhere on earth.


More than half of the torrents going through TPB are legal though. And noone can seem to find any money beeing made from it either. There has to be intent to make money too. I don't think it is.

Google makes money and you can find means of far worse crimes via Google than via TPB. GMC also links to copyrighted material on youtube.

I still say that this is the wrong way. I think something has to be done, but this is not the right way.

BTW, who here has never watched copyrighted material on youtube without paying?



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fkalich
post Apr 19 2009, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE (VictorUK @ Apr 19 2009, 05:50 AM) *
Even though there going to jail nothing is going to happen to the website or the torrents, also IMO saying that one website is the cause of piracy is like saying high performance car makers are breaking the speed limit.


This analogies sound good, but they are silly, come on. Nobody speeds where I am, not much, they get big tickets, and their license taken away, big engines are not a problem.

Loss of billions of dollars in revenue, and millions of job is, to industries devastated by this theft. The only way to stop it is go after the facilitators, and make it so painful, nobody dares open up such a site. Come on, these were theft sites, my dead grandmother can see that. That is why they were there primarily, that is why you had to open a 3 day porno membership to join them.
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MickeM
post Apr 19 2009, 12:07 PM
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I'm standing in the corner of a street with a sign saying - "House owners are on vacation" - pointing at a house.

I'm not telling anyone to break in, that will still be the choice of any burglar up for it.

So, finally someone decides to break into the house and steal worth of 10,000 USD.
What the court does now is to sentense me to jail, for burglary, and to pay 10,000 USD penalty plus court costs.

Huh? I probably deserve something but I never performed the burglary and never told anyone to.

Think what you want about me holding the sign pointing directions but I never peformed the burglary and shouldn't be punished for that. It's not how a state of the law works.
Find and punish the burglar, i.e the ones downloading and uploading copyrighted material. Let them pay, it's their act.


P.S and with the current situation when the real burglar is found he can be sentenced to the exact same thing, to pay 10,000 USD plus court fee. Sinceas far as I understand it's close to impossible to know which stolen goods have been payed for already. Which it isn't if only the burglar pays for what he steals.


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fkalich
post Apr 19 2009, 12:13 PM
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QUOTE (Koopid @ Apr 19 2009, 05:59 AM) *
More than half of the torrents going through TPB are legal though. And noone can seem to find any money beeing made from it either. There has to be intent to make money too. I don't think it is.

Google makes money and you can find means of far worse crimes via Google than via TPB. GMC also links to copyrighted material on youtube.

I still say that this is the wrong way. I think something has to be done, but this is not the right way.

BTW, who here has never watched copyrighted material on youtube without paying?


one more time, then I give up. people keep coming up with analogies that are just silly. youtube is cracking down, they are getting rid of violators pretty fast anymore, of anything that is selling in any degree on the market. Try putting up anything that is being sold on the market, see how long you last on youtube.

I paid $600 just for an upgrade to Adobe Creative Suite. It is like $1500 new. Half of all the user, millions of them, are illegal. This is big time theft. And there is NO WAY to stop it other than going after the facilitators. No other way. No possible other way. You go after the large cogs in the wheel, no other practical way to stop it. Such is reality on planet earth. Or other planets I am sure.



QUOTE (MickeM @ Apr 19 2009, 06:07 AM) *
I'm standing in the corner of a street with a sign saying - "House owners are on vacation" - pointing at a house.

I'm not telling anyone to break in, that will still be the choice of any burglar up for it.

So, finally someone decides to break into the house and steal worth of 10,000 USD.
What the court does now is to sentense me to jail, for burglary, and to pay 10,000 USD penalty plus court costs.

Huh? I probably deserve something but I never performed the burglary and never told anyone to.

Think what you want about me holding the sign pointing directions but I never peformed the burglary and shouldn't be punished for that. It's not how a state of the law works.
Find and punish the burglar, i.e the ones downloading and uploading copyrighted material. Let them pay, it's their act.


P.S and with the current situation when the real burglar is found he can be sentenced to the exact same thing, to pay 10,000 USD plus court fee. Sinceas far as I understand it's close to impossible to know which stolen goods have been payed for already. Which it isn't if only the burglar pays for what he steals.


proof positive, that humans are capable of rationalizing anything, given the nearly infinite availability of ridiculous analogies.

edit: and b.t.w., were you to do that, hold up that sign, and the crime occurred, yes, you would be seriously sued in civil court, certainly in the US, and I am sure would not do it again.

This post has been edited by fkalich: Apr 19 2009, 12:19 PM
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MickeM
post Apr 19 2009, 12:23 PM
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QUOTE (fkalich @ Apr 19 2009, 01:13 PM) *
proof positive, that humans are capable of rationalizing anything, given the nearly infinite availability of ridiculous analogies.

It's just to make people banging their head towards a wall shouting theft theft theft understand better.
Imo providing the service isn't, misusing the service is. Though it's clear they keep it available to breach copyright, but on my planet earth each and everyone are responsible for their acts - i.e use it to download copyrighted material. If I do it, I should pay for it.



QUOTE (fkalich @ Apr 19 2009, 01:13 PM) *
edit: and b.t.w., were you to do that, hold up that sign, and the crime occurred, yes, you would be seriously sued in civil court, certainly in the US, and I am sure would not do it again.

Like I said, I'd get my fingers slapped in someway but hardly to pay the house owners the 10,000 USD that were stolen. As would the burglar pay the same amount when he's caught and sentensed suddenly getting broken into is good business.


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-Zion-
post Apr 20 2009, 08:48 AM
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and the circus continues..

Today it was revealed that 1 HOUR before the official verdict, a journalist already knew what the outcome would be, even though a court is totally confidential.. Yet another proof that no way this has been "true" justice.. Someone has been leaking information.. wacko.gif

Man, where are we going in this world if journalists know the verdict before the implicated parties know them and before the judge have even uttered any word about the verdict?

this has a lot of words i cannot say here written all over it..

edit:
Story in swedish

This post has been edited by -Zion-: Apr 20 2009, 08:51 AM
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Pedja Simovic
post Apr 21 2009, 07:38 AM
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Very interesting responses, I am glad I opened this thread to be honest with you guys.

I am not supporting TPB guys since what they did was clearly wrong. Somewhere along the lines they broke the law. As I said before ,they created a monster.

Its like you came up with the idea, product that damages other people (in this case music movie game and software industry) and you let it out in the open with the idea of everybody taking the blame for it but yourself.
I honestly find it really hard to believe that this guys didn't know what they were doing. On contrary, they are really smart individuals, found loop holes in the law system (or lack of one when it comes to internet) and they explored it perfectly.
Don't know if they made money or not from TPB. Regardless of that they TOOK money from industry by allowing illegal downloads and uploads on their site/server. They can play dumb and try to protect themselves but at the end of the day they did it, they supported that file sharing idea and people all over the world explored it.

It is also very obvious that police is trying to make a case even if they don't have a very strong one. By putting those guys to jail they are sending strong message (very strong message in my opinion) which is - they are ready to take on anybody that is not following the law. Especially guys who organize it and cut industry for their share of millions of dollars.


In conclusion I still believe there will be torrent sites on the net (there is far too many to be all shut down) but it looks like industry is starting to win some battles over piracy guys; its just a battle but who knows what future might bring after this case.

Pedja


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Marcus Lavendell
post Apr 21 2009, 08:34 AM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Apr 21 2009, 08:38 AM) *
In conclusion I still believe there will be torrent sites on the net (there is far too many to be all shut down) but it looks like industry is starting to win some battles over piracy guys; its just a battle but who knows what future might bring after this case.

I also believe that there still will be torrent sites on the net, but I heard on the radio just now that few other big file sharing sites have shut down because they're afraid they'll get prosecuted.

Here's the story (in Swedish, sorry)
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article4949303.ab


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Pedja Simovic
post Apr 21 2009, 08:50 AM
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QUOTE (Marcus Lavendell @ Apr 21 2009, 09:34 AM) *
I also believe that there still will be torrent sites on the net, but I heard on the radio just now that few other big file sharing sites have shut down because they're afraid they'll get prosecuted.

Here's the story (in Swedish, sorry)
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article4949303.ab


It looks like industry is striking back biggrin.gif


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Keilnoth
post Apr 22 2009, 11:19 AM
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The CD prices will not change because TPB is closed. And the artist's income won't be increased. The sites which are closed now will re-open in a few weeks anonymously and/or the videos/songs/softwares will be downloaded on some other places.

Even when we were listening music on tape and watching video on VHS piracy already existed and it won't stop because TPB is down. There are like 10 other sites like TPB. TPB is only the most popular because their creator were a bit too noisy.

That sentence taste a bit bitter for me as stated before. Justice should be the same for everyone. It is like with the Hadopi law in France. This law is an absolute crap. But because the majors are behind it and probably promising presents to politics the law was accepted.

Well, I hate that debate because it is Evil against Evil... Judges should just kick both of them in the nuts. smile.gif


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