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> Perpetual Motion Machine, For the nerds at GMC.
Sircraigery
post Apr 28 2009, 12:29 AM
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So yeah, I've decided a fairly difficult challenge is to build one of these units. I'm got a few years of physics under my belt, why not try it right?

I'm going to base it off the gravity wheel, so no laws of thermodynamics will broken (which in all honesty does NOT make it a perpetual motion machine but w/e it's close enough). As long as it accelerates by itself, I'm happy. The one similar to what I want to use is demonstrated here:





Although it doesn't quite work because of friction. I have some ideas to make a frictionless axle (hint: monorail cars).

I've already got a good start on parts. First for the wheel itself I used some old hard drive disks. I those these because they are no doubt the best wheel I'm going to find that's 100% uniform.

As I get closer to finishing my design, I'll post pics. If anyone has ideas when I fail (haha), feel free to share them.


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David Wallimann
post Apr 28 2009, 02:32 AM
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I find this kind of stuff fascinating.
I'd love to see what you come up with!


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AlexLion
post Apr 28 2009, 08:11 AM
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Cool! It`s fascinating indeed, would love to see your attempt smile.gif
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Velvet Roger
post Apr 28 2009, 08:34 AM
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Cool stuff, looking forward to your go at it smile.gif


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Carlos Carrillo
post Apr 28 2009, 03:46 PM
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Wow! Great Job!


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dusty
post Apr 28 2009, 03:56 PM
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good luck, what ever you do make sure the friction coefficient at the spindle is as low as you can get it, using an idea from mono rail cars is a good idea if you can stabilise the magnetic repulsion force with out the use of supports or bracket (i.e = more friction) or electromagnets.
cant wait to see what you come up with, more than happy to help with ideas if you need them (geek mechanical engineer)


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Pitch_Black
post Apr 28 2009, 04:11 PM
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That is awesome! Why aren't they using those on a large scale to generate energy though?


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dusty
post Apr 28 2009, 04:19 PM
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QUOTE (Pitch_Black @ Apr 28 2009, 04:11 PM) *
That is awesome! Why aren't they using those on a large scale to generate energy though?



its all to do with the torque developed in the shaft in relation to the proportions regarding the diameter of the wheel and the inertia minus the resistance created by the hinged spokes.
to drive a generator from the shaft (ie one powerful enough to keep a family home going) you would need a rig as twice big as the house. i could go on, they are a great idea but the materials and friction technology is years away from being able to make this type of thing a commercial reality
i could draw a picture and do the calculations but i am too lazy tongue.gif , hence why i became a manager and not a lab rat.


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Fran
post Apr 28 2009, 04:34 PM
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QUOTE (Pitch_Black @ Apr 28 2009, 05:11 PM) *
That is awesome! Why aren't they using those on a large scale to generate energy though?


Friction would stop it. I bet the one shown at the vid also stops after a while.


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Pitch_Black
post Apr 29 2009, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE (dusty @ Apr 28 2009, 09:19 AM) *
its all to do with the torque developed in the shaft in relation to the proportions regarding the diameter of the wheel and the inertia minus the resistance created by the hinged spokes.
to drive a generator from the shaft (ie one powerful enough to keep a family home going) you would need a rig as twice big as the house. i could go on, they are a great idea but the materials and friction technology is years away from being able to make this type of thing a commercial reality
i could draw a picture and do the calculations but i am too lazy tongue.gif , hence why i became a manager and not a lab rat.


Dang man! You know your stuff wink.gif Thats to bad that it won't work on that big of a scale sad.gif That would be huge in the area of energy conservation!


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Sircraigery
post Apr 29 2009, 01:33 AM
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Ok well, I'm using two cylinder magnets on either side of the device as an axle. Then in the wheel itself I'm going to put magnets on that too, but larger diameter and slightly over lapping each axle magnet. IF this works they way I want it to, the magnetic repulsion forces will keep the unit hovering and presto -> NO FRICTION!

This is going to hard to stabilize, but I think it has potential. As for wind resistance, I'm going to build a little box to put this in, with a vacuum in there. We have a vacuum pump at work so with all my resources and surplus of time to build a decent model, I'm confident I can make it work. Or at least work for quite a while.


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dusty
post Apr 29 2009, 02:22 PM
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Sounds like a plan, the biggest challenge that i can see is lateral stablisation, once all the magnetic forces have been stabalised in the x and z direction the rig is going to want to move in the y direction (along the axis), the path of least resistance.

you could always try something like this. or at least something based on the principle.



either way it is going to be tricky, good luck

Also just found this, looks like it doesnt need power.

http://spaninc.thomasnet.com/product/all-c...ension-products?

all you would nee to do is make sure that the moving mechanisim does not create enough reactive force to knock the axle alignment out of the suspension field then bingo. thats if you have magnets strong enough to cope with the loads.

This post has been edited by dusty: Apr 29 2009, 02:30 PM


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Jesse
post Apr 29 2009, 03:51 PM
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QUOTE (Carlos Carrillo @ Apr 28 2009, 04:46 PM) *
Wow! Great Job!


He didn't make that one:D


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Carlos Carrillo
post Apr 29 2009, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE (Jesse @ Apr 29 2009, 03:51 PM) *
He didn't make that one:D


hahaha!ok,but..It is a cool job! tongue.gif


This post has been edited by Carlos Carrillo: Apr 29 2009, 04:15 PM


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Sircraigery
post Apr 30 2009, 01:04 AM
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Ran into a bit of a roadblock here. I guess this thing isn't going to work because their are more arms on the left right than the right side (right side being the one with straight arms). Therefore torque is actually balanced.

Now I'm going to try and see if I can somehow come up with a way to use magnets and straight arms. Only....(and here's the tough part) I need to find a way to de-energize a magnet momentarily so the next arm can pass the point of most repulsion.

That or find a completely energy free way to focus a magnetic field like a laser LOL

Also, someone told me that a magnetic field cannot do work...if this is true (and I do remember that from physics) why can a voice coil move a speaker cone?


EDIT: I also found a Stirling Engine very interesting. Of course it's not an over unity (unit = power in < power out) device, but still NO ELECTRIC BILL. They work on temperature changed between to plates to cause and increase in pressure to drive a piston. So naturally, they have solar powered models that actually do work!

This post has been edited by Sircraigery: Apr 30 2009, 01:17 AM


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The Uncreator
post Apr 30 2009, 02:06 AM
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As for a frictionless axles, I think something with magnets could work, Pretty cool stuff man, I love this kind of science stuff, Love to see what you come up with.
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