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> Maj6, Min6
Mark.
post May 11 2009, 04:31 PM
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Muris Varajic
post May 11 2009, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (Mark. @ May 11 2009, 05:31 PM) *
I cant figure this out for the Minor6th cause I cant find a harmonized scale with a min7b5 6th degree


Minor6 would be root inside of a Dorian mode, well spotted.
Min7b5 would be root in Locrian but as you know
it's pretty unstable mode be used as a root.
There are MANY chords that have same notes
and it's only root or note in bass that makes them different, good research! smile.gif


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OrganisedConfusi...
post May 11 2009, 05:05 PM
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Well you've both lost me lol. Maybe I have a lot more reading to do. I'm too busy reading about Quantum Physics laugh.gif


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Muris Varajic
post May 11 2009, 05:10 PM
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QUOTE (OrganisedConfusion @ May 11 2009, 06:05 PM) *
I'm too busy reading about Quantum Physics laugh.gif


I would be more than lost in Quantum Physics, we're even. wink.gif


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Mark.
post May 11 2009, 05:11 PM
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Muris Varajic
post May 11 2009, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE (Mark. @ May 11 2009, 06:11 PM) *
Thanks I think I get the minor6th now

Locrian : min7b5- maj7- min7- min7- maj7- dom7- min7- min7b5

1st degree : Amin7b5
3th degree : Cmin 7 which you can replace by a Cmin6

biggrin.gif Im actually happy that I dont have to learn 2x 12 new shapes for Maj6/min6 I can just use the inversions shapes of min7 and min7b5 which I already know smile.gif


Correct, you can put Cm6 instead of Cm7 to get more of Dorian sound
and of course Cm6 (or Cmaj6) isn't 7th chord but triad with added 6
so it' not made like regular 7th chord by adding 3rds up.

And yeah, you can play many of those chords using same shape or some inversion,
you just need to ask your bass player for help with root and there you go. biggrin.gif


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Mark.
post May 11 2009, 05:45 PM
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Muris Varajic
post May 11 2009, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE (Mark. @ May 11 2009, 06:45 PM) *
Thanks again for such a fast response smile.gif Just got one last question for now.... tongue.gif

This is correct, right?

Ionian : maj7-min7-min7-maj7-dom7-min7-min7b5-maj7
Dorian : min7-min7-maj7-dom7-min7-min7b5-maj7-min7
Phrygian : min7-maj7-dom7-min7-min7b5-maj7-min7-min7
Lydian : maj7-dom7-min7-min7b5-maj7-min7-min7-maj7
Myxolydian : dom7-min7-min7b5-maj7-min7-min7-maj7-dom7
Aeolian : min7-min7b5-maj7-min7-min7-maj7-dom7-min7
Locrian : min7b5-maj7-min7-min7-maj7-dom7-min7-min7b5

It just shifts one to the left each time*

Somehow Im really enjoying this theory stuff feels great when things fall in to place, its like a puzzle smile.gif


Yeah, if you lay them down like that the whole formula
just shifts one spot as you move through modes, pure logic. smile.gif


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Oxac
post May 11 2009, 05:58 PM
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Also a soloing tip smile.gif

Over min6 chords you could use the melodic minor from the same root.

And since min6 often is used in minor blues where a modulation a fourth up (ex. Cmin6 - Fmin6) is very common, I find it very enthralling to modulate into the Harmonic minor scale of the first chord smile.gif (otherwise you'd be playing the major third over the minor chord... not very appreciated by many).

Example: C melodic minor
© D Eb F G A B C

Cmin6

C Eb G A

C Harmonic Minor:
C D Eb (F) G Ab B C

Fmin6
F Ab C D


With F as root this would be something like Lydian minor I think.


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Muris Varajic
post May 11 2009, 06:03 PM
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Melodic minor works over min6 chord indeed,
just watch out for rest of the progression and you're good. smile.gif


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Mark.
post May 11 2009, 06:09 PM
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Pedja Simovic
post May 12 2009, 02:53 AM
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Let me add just two things here...

Minor 6th chord is not only for Dorian but can be Melodic Minor root chord. C Eb G A = C minor 6 = belongs to both C dorian and melodic minor.

Minor 7b5 is actually used as 6th mode of Melodic minor !!!
Aeolian b5 is the name of the mode.

I will not get too much now into theory but lets just say that Aeolian b5 mode offers way more possibilities for resolution and soloing then Locryian mode.
Hope that makes sense !


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Mark.
post May 12 2009, 12:21 PM
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Emir Hot
post May 12 2009, 12:37 PM
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I love min6 chord. I use it non stop. Gipsy jazz guitarists play that chord most of the time. Imagine Dm7, Gm and A7. They almost always play Gm6 instead of Gm. You can also substitute it with Em7b5 as this chord has exactly the same notes as Gm6. You get really interesting sound color when mixing two of these in the chord progression.


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Mark.
post May 12 2009, 12:45 PM
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Emir Hot
post May 12 2009, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE (Mark. @ May 12 2009, 12:45 PM) *
Sounds very nice indeed, love going from Gm6/Em7b5 to A7 sounds great!

Also I tried to work out harmonizing the melodic minor scale and came to this:

Min7M - Min7 - Maj7#5 - Dom7 - Min7 - Min7b5 - Min7b5- Min7M

This would make Min7b5 a 6th degree just like Pedja said ohmy.gif Is this correct ?


I think it is correct. The only thing is how you pronounce that first chord smile.gif I think this is the correct way of saying: min/maj7

And these are Melodic Minor modes:

1. Ionian b3 (Melodic Minor)
2. Dorian b2
3. Phrygian "b1" (Lydian #5)
4. Lydian b7
5. Mixolydian b6
6. Aeolian b5
7. Locrian b4 (super Locrian)

You can find some different names. People call these many different ways. The formula is always used in a way that you don't end up with 2 same numbers in the formula. It always has to be somehow 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and now some is raised and some flattened but no both sharp and flat in one formula. Only 1 kind of accidental can be used.


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Mark.
post May 12 2009, 01:00 PM
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Pedja Simovic
post May 12 2009, 01:34 PM
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There are couple of things you missed buddy...


V scale degree in Melodic minor is actually Dominant 7th chord !

G7 = G B D F

C melodic minor = C D Eb F G A B C
G mixolydian b13 = G A B C D Eb F G

So scale degrees IV and V are BOTH dominant 7th chords.

Another thing that you can notice is VII Scale degree.

Lets look at a Super Locryian or ALTERED scale/mode from C melodic minor.

B C D Eb F G A B

Possible triads here are :

- B D F = B diminished
- B Eb(D#) G = B augmented

Possible 4 note chords here are

- B D F A = Minor 7b5
- B Eb G A = Dominant 7#5 or Aug 7th chord


A lot of people use chord Dominant 7#9. Hendrix was one of the first who over used it in almost all of his songs !

What many people dont know is this chord with guitar voicing provided actually comes from VII scale degree of melodic minor !!!

Lets take a look at guitar voicing from bottom up using B7#9 as example:

B D#(Eb) A D !

B is played on A , D# on D A on G and D on B string !


You all know this voicing and move it around as many times as you want.

Whats interesting is that this Dom7#9 voicing is missing some sort of 5th in it. There is only Root 3rd and b7 (guide tones) + #9 tension !
Many times guitar and piano player will leave out ROOT and FIFTH of the chord since bass player will fill that in.


So to draw a conclusion here, Dom7#9 chord is VII scale degree of Melodic minor.
If you want to be too picky and exact and add some sort of 5th it would be G note which is #5 or you can call it b6 or 13 even.

So your final chord would be B7#5#9 or B7#9b13 etc


Hope that helps.


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Emir Hot
post May 12 2009, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ May 12 2009, 01:34 PM) *
So your final chord would be B7#5#9 or B7#9b13 etc


Great post Pedja smile.gif

I would just add that every altered chord fits within Super Locrian mode. There are 24 possible combinations of those if I remember correctly.


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Pedja Simovic
post May 12 2009, 02:00 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ May 12 2009, 02:58 PM) *
Great post Pedja smile.gif

I would just add that every altered chord fits within Super Locrian mode. There are 24 possible combinations of those if I remember correctly.



Thanks Emir smile.gif

There is b9 #9 , b5 (#11) #5(b13) so I guess you can get 24 different variations out of it. I didn't count it all - yet ! Haha smile.gif


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