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> Master Of Puppets, Need some help please !
djohnneay
post Jun 29 2009, 04:57 PM
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Hi all !

As told in the 'what are you currently working on'-thread I'm trying to learn Master of Puppets, by Metallica.
I've been told that all of the riffs are downpicked. The problem is, that I can't downpick that fast.
Would it be an option to alternate pick the riffs? If so, it could solve my problem, but it won't sound the same, and when I get better at downpicking, I might have to relearn the song.

So I'd have 2 options :
- learn to alternate pick the song and relearn it later downpicking
- learn the song the hard way and waiting until I reach the speed needed to play the song up to tempo

I wonder which way is more time-consuming, has anybody got any advice about this ?
Right now, all I can do is downpick up to about 180 bpm 8th notes cleanly, and the song should be about 220 bpms.
All help is appreciated !!

This post has been edited by djohnneay: Jun 29 2009, 04:58 PM


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Muris Varajic
post Jun 29 2009, 05:00 PM
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It IS all downpicking
but you don't have to torture yourself and
wait for a long time till your speed comes on the right spot.
If you like the tune then play it with alternate
while practicing downpicking anyhow, then switch it to downpicking.
I said "wait for a long time" cause many guys can't play that song
at full tempo while being comfortable, it's gonna take a while for sure. smile.gif


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ZakkWylde
post Jun 29 2009, 05:02 PM
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Practice downpicking until you can do it properly!

How much will come out of using schortcuts? Right: NOTHING!

You can practice some Not-so-fast downpicking songs and work your way to downpicking accuracy, stamina and speed.
Try to play Creeping Death by Metallica first, it's fast but not AS FAST as MOP...


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Muris Varajic
post Jun 29 2009, 05:03 PM
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Oh yeah, your question is but tricky tho,
"learning the song" could be only learning notes.
Now, the technique you're gonna apply on those notes can varies
but I don't think you would have to re-learn.
And at the end, it's cool to be able to play
same thing using different techniques!


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Matt23
post Jun 29 2009, 05:03 PM
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I learnt it alternate and I've actually seen James play it with alternate sometimes live. i'd just decide which you would rather learn it with now and if later you feel you should elarn it with downpicking then it wont take you long to change.
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MickeM
post Jun 29 2009, 05:05 PM
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Well... if you can't beat the downpicking bpm there's not much choice is there?

I play the song alternate picking, that's MY way. I'm not that much into copying others I have to pick the exact same way.
Which makes a point of, if you're a hardcore Metallica tribute artist you should definitly go for downpicking all the way.

At the pub gig you'll have most or everyone fooled by alternate picking though. smile.gif

So I suggest you go for alternate picking now and switch to downpicking further down the road when you got your pace up.


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djohnneay
post Jun 29 2009, 05:57 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys !

If I don't have to relearn the whole song, but just the technique, I'll stick to AP for now, and as soon as I get it down that way, I'll try to get it downpicking-wise.

@MickeM: It is not for gigs, it's just for myself, I just love the song and would be gladly able to play along with it.

@ Zakkwylde : I've been practicing the song downpicking for a while now, and I didn't see any progress in speed. I rarely get up to speed when playing sloppy, but there's simply no way I'm gonna get over the downpicking speed barrier this year, so if downpicking would be the only way to go, I'd have to wait. As I've learned, speed comes with time and practice, and I'm not even close to that level of downpicking, so AP is the way for now I guess...


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Santiago Diaz Ga...
post Jun 29 2009, 06:55 PM
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Are you working your downpicking with metronome?


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djohnneay
post Jun 29 2009, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (Santiago Diaz Garces @ Jun 29 2009, 07:55 PM) *
Are you working your downpicking with metronome?


Sometimes the clicks of the metronome get on my nerves, but I try to do it as much as possible.
I know it is important.

I'll try playing some slower downpicking songs as MOP, such as Megadeth's Paranoid and some others.

This post has been edited by djohnneay: Jun 29 2009, 07:20 PM


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Bogdan Radovic
post Jun 29 2009, 09:51 PM
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If you want to play the song now, do it with AP but remember to practice it in downpicking and switch to it once you can play it uptempo - it will sound much better smile.gif


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 29 2009, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE (djohnneay @ Jun 29 2009, 08:19 PM) *
Sometimes the clicks of the metronome get on my nerves, but I try to do it as much as possible.
I know it is important.

I'll try playing some slower downpicking songs as MOP, such as Megadeth's Paranoid and some others.


You have to do a focused practice with the metronome for couple of weeks and months perhaps to achieve a nice steady technique, so the solution is as always - practice & patience.


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djohnneay
post Jun 30 2009, 09:01 AM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Jun 29 2009, 10:51 PM) *
If you want to play the song now, do it with AP but remember to practice it in downpicking and switch to it once you can play it uptempo - it will sound much better smile.gif


Will do, thanks Bogdan!

QUOTE (Ivan Milenkovic @ Jun 30 2009, 12:08 AM) *
You have to do a focused practice with the metronome for couple of weeks and months perhaps to achieve a nice steady technique, so the solution is as always - practice & patience.


Metronome training will never end, right Ivan? Every single new technique should be practiced with metronome for optimal result. Though I prefer backing tracks and playing along with songs. I heard that also helps rhythm placement. I do practice with the metronome, but not as much as I should.

For now, MOP will be a challenge even if I play it AP, only diffrence is I will be able to play along with the song, whereas with downpicking I might have to wait a long while before I can play it in tempo. So for now, I will use AP, enjoy the song, and later on switch to downpicking.

Thank you all guys, you're being a great help !


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wrk
post Jun 30 2009, 10:00 AM
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I would play it with AP and practice it with down-picking. There is nothing to relearn as both technics need a lot of practice anyway. You don't have to be afraid to using a different technic ... is not like getting used to a bad habit.

To be able to play something would be the main point for me smile.gif




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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jun 30 2009, 11:25 AM
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QUOTE (djohnneay @ Jun 30 2009, 10:01 AM) *
Metronome training will never end, right Ivan? Every single new technique should be practiced with metronome for optimal result. Though I prefer backing tracks and playing along with songs. I heard that also helps rhythm placement. I do practice with the metronome, but not as much as I should.

For now, MOP will be a challenge even if I play it AP, only diffrence is I will be able to play along with the song, whereas with downpicking I might have to wait a long while before I can play it in tempo. So for now, I will use AP, enjoy the song, and later on switch to downpicking.

Thank you all guys, you're being a great help !

It will definitely never end, any metronome practice is better than without metronome, so this leads to the conclusion that everything should be practiced with metronome for good results. Using backing tracks is also a good thing of course, but with metronome you can change the tempo fast which is very important cause when you rehearse something you don't play it on a fixed tempo. You put it on 50-60bpm and then increase gradually to whatever speed you need to be on. If 50-60 is still tricky, increase the note durations etc..


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Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Jun 30 2009, 01:00 PM
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Alternate picking is out of question, downstrokes create that specific sound, and I think that sound is very much part of that particular composition. I mean, don't hurry, practice slowly, you will get it in no time!


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Jose Mena
post Jun 30 2009, 03:44 PM
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Downpicking Master of Puppets gets your hand tired. Like someone else said, even the guys from Metallica switch to alternate picking sometimes, I guess because they get tired. I've see John Petrucci play it with Alternate, pretty sure he can do it with down picking, but probably avoids getting tired by switching to alternate for most of the song.

I'd say practice down picking, but I would not advise against switching to alternate from time to time to rest.


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djohnneay
post Jul 1 2009, 03:36 PM
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Thanks for lots of help guys !
I'm getting the hang of it now !


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