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> Play And Rest Collaboration, FINAL MIX WITH COMMENTS!
Pedja Simovic
post Jul 27 2009, 11:55 AM
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Hi guys and welcome to final mix and comments for Play and Rest collaboration. This was our 5th in class type collaboration and there were total of 13 participants (including myself). The purpose of this collaboration was to teach you how to create rests or spacing in your solos. We as guitar players who (primarily) like rock/metal/instrumental music tend to put technique before melody. If you followed closely rules of this collaboration and practiced using play rest patterns you should be noticing some major improvements. In case you haven't worked enough on this topic I strongly advise you to go back and do your work over and over until resting becomes natural to your ear and you start hearing melodies that you play in your head.
Before I get to comments for each of you I would just like to suggest you to use this same approach over anything you work on! Here are some examples what I mean by that :

- One chord vamp (maybe Dominant 7th chord vamp or Minor 7th or any mode that you want to work on)
- Two chord vamp (here you can work on II V patterns or perhaps V to I or I to V etc)
- Three chord vamp (12 bar blues is best for this)
- Four or more chords ( this can be from section of a song all the way to whole songs and progressions)

Modes of accompaniment you could and should use :

- Metronome
- Backing tracks
- Another instrument (record yourself playing bass guitar roots for example or record just rhythm guitar so you can have another instrument as reference)
- Trio setting (record bass and drums and then you do your soloing over that)
- No accompaniment, rubato, free tempo (this pretty much means that you have to hear changes in your head without any reference and keep track of tempo on your own).


Final recommendation - RECORD EVERYTHING YOU PLAY! This should be very educational and helpful for your further improvement. You need to analyze your playing and be realistic of your past , current and future goals. Find out what are things that need work, isolate them, create exercises/practice plan for them and improve. It is as simple as that, all you have to do is have will and dedication to stick to it.


Hope this was very useful collaboration for you, enjoy the final mix and your comments. As always let me know if there are any questions !

For the first time I will divide comment into two categories for each one of you. Things I like and Things that need work. I hope you will like that approach but if you have any more questions feel free to ask here or via PM regarding your take.


berko (0:00 - 0:37)

Things that I like: Sound in 1st and 2nd section, your overal stylistic approach and you somewhat did great with play rest patterns.

Things that need work: Melodic approach (Eb over G min chord is avoid note and should be used as passing tone only). Technique needs some polishing, hammer ons and pull offs (legato) don't sound even and it reflects on phrasing ideas (on and off phrasing).

Conclusion: I wanted to hear specific play rest approach but you mixed different approach which is not what you were supposed to do. A lot of guys did this and I consider it to be not so great because I gave you instructions for a reason (to follow them). If I look at the play rest approaches you applied it sounds good but I wanted to grade on very specific approach (play one rest one or play two rest two, not both). Overall great sound and stylistic approach but melodic approach and technique need work.

Thank you Berko!


Caelumamittendum (0:37 - 1:12)

Things that I like: Melodic approach, development in the melodies, technique applied and phrasing.

Things that need work: Your sound (sounds like its in the background and you mentioned yourself that it doesn't work over this sort of backing) !

Conclusion : Like with previous take I wanted to hear specific play rest approach but you mixed play one rest one and play two rest two. I must say that you did really great job with that but regardless I just wanted you to pick one as it is far more difficult and challenging than combining two or mixing them up. Your development and technique was very well applied in this take and overall I am very pleased with it.

Thank you Ben!


Dexxter (1:12 - 1:48)

Things that I like: Sound, development, different endings, question and answer phrasing, straight and syncopated rhythm, chord tones and tensions in your melodies.

Things that need work: None

Conclusion: Perfect take! I do mean it Max. You took only one play rest approach and did all the good things I mentioned in 36 seconds of solo. Well done man, I have no suggestions for you except to keep doing great work!

Thank you Max!


enforcer (1:48 - 2:23)

Things that I like: Melodic approach, techniques applied, sound, development and phrasing (to some extent).

Things that need work: Phrasing (on certain parts is weaker) and tunning (B and G string sound out compared to backing track, it might be that the strings are old or intonation is off).

Conclusion: First thing I have to say is you didn't follow one specific play rest approach but rather mixed them. If we put this aside I can say that I am very happy with melodic content and approach in this solo. Make sure your guitar is in tune 100% with backing track next time you plan to record and work on phrasing a bit more.
P.S. Excellent alternate picking run !

Thank you Can!


JamesT (2:24 - 3:00)

Things that I like: Sound, development, question and answer phrasing, melodic approach.

Things that need work: Technique (very minimal improvement for bends with vibrato and vibrato itself) and phrasing (more variety in rhythm choices perhaps or even different starting places on and off the beat!)

Conclusion: Jim you followed very specific play rest approach and I am very happy because of that. Things that need work were technique and phrasing but to be honest this is very minimal work and I think within a month time (or less) this will fall into right place. Keep working on bending, vibrato and phrasing, everything else is awesome.

Thank you Jim!


Matt23 (3:00 - 3:35)

Things that I like: Melodic approach (in most of the solo), development, question and answer phrasing.

Things that need work: Sound (it is very clean and dry, I am sure with better sound solo would have sounded more "alive"), technique (you need to work on your left hand mutting as double stops need to have joint and balanced sound) and phrasing (in some sections phrasing was weak but this was due to technique)

Conclusion: Overall I am very pleased to see that you took only one specific play rest approach. Well done for that Matt. I believe you need to work on your sound most , technique and phrasing. You are doing great with REC program, keep practicing and good things will happen!

Thank you Matt!


Outlaw2112 (3:35 - 4:10)

Things that I like: Melodic approach and technique (to some extent).

Things that need work: Sound (it has way too much gain - I had to drop it down in the mix by 70% or so because it was peaking), phrasing (it was dropping in certain sections), development (more repetition, sequence, different endings)

Conclusion: John you did not follow specific play rest approach. There were play one rest one as well as play two rest two. At times you even rested for three,four bars (very beginning) and played more than two bars (in the 2nd section). Regardles of that, your sound needs most work as I have heard you use high gain sound in my previous collaborations. Let me know if I can be of any assistance regarding that. Your phrasing could also be tighter so work on it with metronome and backing tracks (check modes of accompainment on top of the post!).

Thank you John!


Oxac (4:10 - 4:45)

Things that I like: Sound, melodic approach, development, question and answer phrasing and overall creativity.

Things that need work: Phrasing (in 2nd part you dropped a note in one of your phrases), arrangement (choose different sound to your guitar and bring it higher in the mix) technique ( I would have liked to hear some arpeggios using double time on keyboard, would have sounded awesome at some point!)

Conclusion: Olle you almost followed one play rest approach 100% of the time. I didn't like that you played too much into the bars towards the end in the 2nd section but overall it was very good approach. I really like your creativity and I was very happy to provide you backing without my keys on there. It took me a lot extra work to mix it but if you like doing this I can give you more chance to do this in future. I would like to hear you use more techniqal things on keyboard although your solo was very melodic and well developed. Well done Olle!

Thank you Olle!


skennington (4:46 - 5:21)

Things that I like: Sound, melodic approach, development, question and answer phrasing, sequence, repetition, different endings, chord tones and tensions.

Things that need work: Bending (in the take I picked there were slightly flat bends that need work!), Technique/Vibrato/Intonation (when you end melody on last note it tends to be sharp - maybe you are trying to do light vibrato but instead produce a bit sharper pitch!)

Conclusion: Steve first of all thank you for submitting two takes for this collaboration. I had really hard time last night deciding which one to pick for final mix. I decided to go with your first take because I like development, melodic structure and phrasing more then in second take. In other words, your first take was more musical to me smile.gif Things that need work I am sure you will work on. Uncle Skillet is there to help you but if you need any help from me regarding bending exercises and vibrato do let me know.
As final project I can recommend you to transcribe your solo in Guitar pro (it will be very usefull - ear training purposes, harmony analysis and rhythm training!) and I hope to see you in some future collaborations of mine.

Thank you Steve!


superize (5:21 - 5:57)

Things that I like: Sound, melodic approach (except at one spot!), development, question and answer phrasing, chord tones and tensions.

Things that need work: Melodic approach at 5:39-5:42 ! There are out notes there, transcribe your solo and you will see what I am talking about.

Conclusion: Isac like most guys, you mixed different play rest approaches and this is not what I had in mind. If we take that out of the way and consider what you did in this take, I must say I am very pleased and happy with it. Well done man and next time follow the rules I post in main topic smile.gif

Thank you Isac!


TheKeplerConjecture (5:57-6:32)

Things that I like: Technique, chord tones and tensions, development and melodic approach (in some sections).

Things that need work: Sound (it was very distorted I had to decrease gain a lot and even then sounded distorted still smile.gif , melodic choice (especially in the first section), question and answer phrasing (phrases don't sound natural one after another, they melodies need to blend well).

Conclusion: I like how you followed one specific play rest approach! That was great. In future try not to over play into next bar (like ending melodies on beat 2 of next bar and such). Pointers I made regarding things that need work I advise you take them seriously and work on them. This is the first time I hear you in my collaboration so I can't draw any conclusion what your real level of playing is. If you get a chance for some future collaboration record couple of takes and work on it as early as possible so that we can pick the best take!

Thank you TheKeplerConjecture!


Velvet Roger (6:33 - 7:08)

Things that I like: Sound, development, chord tones and tensions, melodic approach, question and answer phrasing.

Things that need work: Phrasing (in some parts phrasing is a bit weaker, if you check your solo with Guitar pro file you submitted you will see what I mean), Technique (small things on legato and vibrato, bending has definitely improved a lot!)

Conclusion: Roger you mixed up different patterns instead of sticking to one play rest approach. I like a lot of things in your solo but I think phrasing needs work especially with faster rhythms (triplets and such) as well as off beat/syncopated type phrases. I do however think that you are imporving a lot over the time and things that you do compared to what you did in first collaborations is huge difference. Now its just matter of details with vibrato and phrasing. Pretty soon I expect your improvisations to make a lot of sense as you are using chord tones tensions and scale passages naturally already. Very good take but work on the things mentioned and next time follow the rules! smile.gif

Thank you Roger!


Pedja Simovic (7:08 - 7:44)

Things that I like: Melodic approach, motive development, question and answer phrasing, straigh and syncopated rhythms, chord tones, superimposing, through composed soling, technique etc

Things that need work: Sound (I created this sound very quick and now that I listen to it I think I could have created a better sound!)

Conclusion: I picked play one rest one approach. There were different starting places for melodies (pick up bar up beat of 4, down beat of 1 , up beat of one). Melodic approach, motive development, question and answer phrasing, straigh and syncopated rhythms, chord tones, superimposing and through composed soling is what made this solo sound as a whole thing very well. I personally think that sound could have been better but then again maybe this solo with different sound (less treble) wouldn't have same spiky statement as this one had at times!


Thank you for participating in this collaboration and I hope to see you guys in next one!


Pedja


This post has been edited by Pedja Simovic: Jul 27 2009, 07:35 PM
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Attached File  PlayRestCollabFinalMix.mp3 ( 14.16MB ) Number of downloads: 208
 


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berko
post Jul 27 2009, 12:22 PM
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Thanks Pedja for the mix and the comments! smile.gif

I've read all the instructions and I know you spoke about the two different approaches. I thought though, that applying both would be even better - I didn't distinguish between the two so strictly and I wouldn't have thought that only one type would fit.

Anyway, this episode suited me very much because I still have to force myself sometimes to slow down or to rest for a few bars. But this also implies that I have to prepare for the rest and prepare for a logical comeback after the rest as well.

Once again, thanks for your work in this hot summer ohmy.gif cool.gif


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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 27 2009, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE (berko @ Jul 27 2009, 01:22 PM) *
Thanks Pedja for the mix and the comments! smile.gif

I've read all the instructions and I know you spoke about the two different approaches. I thought though, that applying both would be even better - I didn't distinguish between the two so strictly and I wouldn't have thought that only one type would fit.

Anyway, this episode suited me very much because I still have to force myself sometimes to slow down or to rest for a few bars. But this also implies that I have to prepare for the rest and prepare for a logical comeback after the rest as well.

Once again, thanks for your work in this hot summer ohmy.gif cool.gif


You welcome Berko! smile.gif

I wrote about approach in the main thread but everybody seemed to miss it, or at least a lot of guys smile.gif There were some guys that followed the rules and did awesome but most of you mixed the patterns which is not what I wanted you to do now but to work on it in future (for your own improvement). Regardless of everything your take was good man, I am glad you did it!

Back to more comments now, let me know if you have any questions or need anything!

Pedja


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Emir Hot
post Jul 27 2009, 01:02 PM
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Awesome collaboration and great takes. Well done everybody and well done Pedja for covering such an important topic. Resting between phrases is extremely important thing in arranging music. I enjoyed listening to this mix.


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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 27 2009, 01:04 PM
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QUOTE (Emir Hot @ Jul 27 2009, 02:02 PM) *
Awesome collaboration and great takes. Well done everybody and well done Pedja for covering such an important topic. Resting between phrases is extremely important thing in arranging music. I enjoyed listening to this mix.


Thank you Emir for kind words. I totally agree with you regarding this topic. I might do some more play rest collaborations in future !


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Dexxter
post Jul 27 2009, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jul 27 2009, 12:55 PM) *
Dexxter (1:12 - 1:48)

Things that I like: Sound, development, different endings, question and answer phrasing, straight and syncopated rhythm, chord tones and tensions in your melodies.

Things that need work: None

Conclusion: Perfect take! I do mean it Max. You took only one play rest approach and did all the good things I mentioned in 36 seconds of solo. Well done man, I have no suggestions for you except to keep doing great work!

Thank you Max!


Wow.. thanks a lot Pedja! biggrin.gif Can't say anything more than that.. Looking forward to your future collabs. And I will only send you totally improvised takes from now on as I said wink.gif
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 27 2009, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (Dexxter @ Jul 27 2009, 02:06 PM) *
Wow.. thanks a lot Pedja! biggrin.gif Can't say anything more than that.. Looking forward to your future collabs. And I will only send you totally improvised takes from now on as I said wink.gif


You welcome Max, really deserved all the praise!
I would prefer that actually from you and also start transcribing your playing in Guitar pro man. Well done once more smile.gif


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Dexxter
post Jul 27 2009, 01:12 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jul 27 2009, 02:09 PM) *
You welcome Max, really deserved all the praise!
I would prefer that actually from you and also start transcribing your playing in Guitar pro man. Well done once more smile.gif


Ok, so I will send you improvised take and the take transcribed to guitar pro in the future wink.gif smile.gif I'll transcribe this take now right away! biggrin.gif Thanks again!
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 27 2009, 01:18 PM
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QUOTE (Dexxter @ Jul 27 2009, 02:12 PM) *
Ok, so I will send you improvised take and the take transcribed to guitar pro in the future wink.gif smile.gif I'll transcribe this take now right away! biggrin.gif Thanks again!


Excellent!
Just lets not confuse things- first you improvise and record your self, then you transcribe it (not the other way around biggrin.gif


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Dexxter
post Jul 27 2009, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jul 27 2009, 02:18 PM) *
Excellent!
Just lets not confuse things- first you improvise and record your self, then you transcribe it (not the other way around biggrin.gif


Hehe, ofcourse biggrin.gif So, here's this take transcribed smile.gif

Attached File  Dexxter_PlayAndRest_transcribed.gp5 ( 2.66K ) Number of downloads: 51
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 27 2009, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE (Dexxter @ Jul 27 2009, 02:48 PM) *
Hehe, ofcourse biggrin.gif So, here's this take transcribed smile.gif

Attached File  Dexxter_PlayAndRest_transcribed.gp5 ( 2.66K ) Number of downloads: 51


Well done!

To make it more professional put time signature (G minor/Bb major). To make it even more professional assign left hand fingerings to all the notes played. To make it GMC professional add picking you use ! smile.gif


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Caelumamittendum
post Jul 27 2009, 02:02 PM
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QUOTE (Dexxter @ Jul 27 2009, 02:48 PM) *
Hehe, ofcourse biggrin.gif So, here's this take transcribed smile.gif

Attached File  Dexxter_PlayAndRest_transcribed.gp5 ( 2.66K ) Number of downloads: 51


Now I feel like transcribing my take as well. Haha.


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Dexxter
post Jul 27 2009, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jul 27 2009, 02:51 PM) *
Well done!

To make it more professional put time signature (G minor/Bb major). To make it even more professional assign left hand fingerings to all the notes played. To make it GMC professional add picking you use ! smile.gif


Like this? smile.gif

Attached File  Dexxter_PlayAndRest_transcribed.gp5 ( 2.82K ) Number of downloads: 47


QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jul 27 2009, 03:02 PM) *
Now I feel like transcribing my take as well. Haha.


Then do it smile.gif Some cool phrases you've got there btw wink.gif
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 27 2009, 02:08 PM
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QUOTE (Caelumamittendum @ Jul 27 2009, 03:02 PM) *
Now I feel like transcribing my take as well. Haha.


Do it ! smile.gif
QUOTE (Dexxter @ Jul 27 2009, 03:05 PM) *
Like this? smile.gif

Attached File  Dexxter_PlayAndRest_transcribed.gp5 ( 2.82K ) Number of downloads: 47


Excellent!
To everything you can add title on top something like "Dexxter's take for Play Rest Collaboration" or whatever you want smile.gif



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Dexxter
post Jul 27 2009, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jul 27 2009, 03:08 PM) *
Excellent!
To everything you can add title on top something like "Dexxter's take for Play Rest Collaboration" or whatever you want


Perfect now? biggrin.gif Thanks again, Pedja! can't wait for your next collab! smile.gif

Attached File  Dexxter_PlayAndRest_transcribed.gp5 ( 2.86K ) Number of downloads: 49
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 27 2009, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE (Dexxter @ Jul 27 2009, 03:21 PM) *
Perfect now? biggrin.gif Thanks again, Pedja! can't wait for your next collab! smile.gif

Attached File  Dexxter_PlayAndRest_transcribed.gp5 ( 2.86K ) Number of downloads: 49


Great Dexxter!
Still not perfect - you can put harmony on top of each bar wink.gif

New collaboration... I am leaving for summer holiday on 4th of August, will be in Greece until 14th. If I don't publish one by 4th definitely there will be one after 14th. Will put you on auto sign up thingy smile.gif


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skennington
post Jul 27 2009, 03:08 PM
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Thanks Pedja for this collab. It really forced me to focus more on the actual structure of the backing in order to follow the rules of the exercise. I will take your advice and transcribe my solo when I get a chance. (working atm) sad.gif

Sometimes I get ahead of myself when trying to think of what is going to come next and with this type of approach, phrase ending's needs to be more precise than what I submitted. I agree with your comments on my performance 100% and will work on the things mentioned. smile.gif

Thanks again and I will certainly keep an eye out for future collab's of yours!

Cheers,
Steve


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Dexxter
post Jul 27 2009, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jul 27 2009, 03:25 PM) *
Great Dexxter!
Still not perfect - you can put harmony on top of each bar wink.gif

New collaboration... I am leaving for summer holiday on 4th of August, will be in Greece until 14th. If I don't publish one by 4th definitely there will be one after 14th. Will put you on auto sign up thingy smile.gif


...How do you do that? smile.gif

Great, looking forward to it! biggrin.gif
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 27 2009, 03:14 PM
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QUOTE (skennington @ Jul 27 2009, 04:08 PM) *
Thanks Pedja for this collab. It really forced me to focus more on the actual structure of the backing in order to follow the rules of the exercise. I will take your advice and transcribe my solo when I get a chance. (working atm) sad.gif

Sometimes I get ahead of myself when trying to think of what is going to come next and with this type of approach, phrase ending's needs to be more precise than what I submitted. I agree with your comments on my performance 100% and will work on the things mentioned. smile.gif

Thanks again and I will certainly keep an eye out for future collab's of yours!

Cheers,
Steve


Great to hear you enjoyed this collaboration Steve!
I was very happy to see your determination and openness towards it from very beginning. I am sure if you continue to implement this approach in your practice (even for 5-10 minutes a day!) it will bring you great results to your phrasing, ear training and song writing skills.
I will be more then happy to have you in my future collaborations. Will send you PM when I post new one, perhaps you will be available then to participate.

Let me know if you need any help with transcribing. Talk to Uncle Skillet and get him to make you work for it!!! Tell him I said that! smile.gif

Well done Steve!


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Oxac
post Jul 27 2009, 03:15 PM
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This type of music is a whole new area for me as a piano player. I've always played classical music before, hence the untechnical solo. If you want a pure technique demonstration I would be happy to provide it.

-EDIT- I think that my insecurity in playing this kind of music on the piano is because I've never practised to a backing or with a metronome on the piano. I'll give it a go.

This post has been edited by Oxac: Jul 27 2009, 03:17 PM


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