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Raph
post Jul 29 2009, 04:09 PM
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Hey guys, today I need help with my metronome practicing. When I practice a fast lick, I usually slow it down to about 60-70BPM and play the lick 20 times before advancing up 1 BPM. However, when I finally get it up to speed, I find that it becomes sloppy and it's a tedious process slowing down and starting again? Do any of you guys have a more efficient method when practicing with the metronome or can you give me pointers to improve my existing method.

Cheers!

This post has been edited by Raph: Jul 29 2009, 04:09 PM


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Bogdan Radovic
post Jul 29 2009, 04:16 PM
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QUOTE (Raph @ Jul 29 2009, 05:09 PM) *
Hey guys, today I need help with my metronome practicing. When I practice a fast lick, I usually slow it down to about 60-70BPM and play the lick 20 times before advancing up 1 BPM. However, when I finally get it up to speed, I find that it becomes sloppy and it's a tedious process slowing down and starting again? Do any of you guys have a more efficient method when practicing with the metronome or can you give me pointers to improve my existing method.

Cheers!


Hello,

You don't have start the process again. Idea with metronome practice is to as you do, start slowly and then increase tempo by 10bpm , 5bpm and then lower portions like 1-2bpm as you get to faster tempo. You should be able to play clean and comfortable on one tempo before going to the faster one. Which tempo do you aim for and on which you are comfortable and then starts to be sloppy? You should stay on the first sloppy tempo you encounter and try to get it right. Challenge yourself that way. You can even push that tempo just a little more to try playing even faster even if its bound to be sloppy (to get your brain used to speed) and then backing of the last comfortable tempo. After that go on to the next one you are having troubles with. Practice it daily, sometimes one day you will have problems and next one after a rest you will be able to push the tempo.

Cheers,
Bogdan


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Raph
post Jul 29 2009, 04:21 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Jul 29 2009, 04:16 PM) *
Hello,

You don't have start the process again. Idea with metronome practice is to as you do, start slowly and then increase tempo by 10bpm , 5bpm and then lower portions like 1-2bpm as you get to faster tempo. You should be able to play clean and comfortable on one tempo before going to the faster one. Which tempo do you aim for and on which you are comfortable and then starts to be sloppy? You should stay on the first sloppy tempo you encounter and try to get it right. Challenge yourself that way. You can even push that tempo just a little more to try playing even faster even if its bound to be sloppy (to get your brain used to speed) and then backing of the last comfortable tempo. After that go on to the next one you are having troubles with. Practice it daily, sometimes one day you will have problems and next one after a rest you will be able to push the tempo.

Cheers,
Bogdan


Thanks Bogdan, but how long do I need to stay at the various speeds as I practice?


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Bogdan Radovic
post Jul 29 2009, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE (Raph @ Jul 29 2009, 05:21 PM) *
Thanks Bogdan, but how long do I need to stay at the various speeds as I practice?


You should stay at a certain speed until you are comfortable with it and you can play the guitar part without mistake for more then several times in a row.


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lcsdds
post Jul 29 2009, 04:32 PM
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I'm not an instructor but I can tell you what has worked for me. You need to figure out what your top clean speed is for the particular lick you are trying to play. Say it is 100 bpm and you want to push it to 160 bpm.

Here is what I would do with the metronome and a timer.

55 bpm for 1 min
70 bpm for 1 min
85 bpm for 1 min
100 bpm for 1 min
115 bpm for 1 min
70 bpm for 1 min

After doing that 3-4 times during the week I would increase the bpm by 5 bpm on everything. The timer allows you to be uber efficient. You can practice like 12 different licks in an hour very efficiently.

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Jerry Arcidiacon...
post Jul 29 2009, 04:33 PM
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QUOTE (Raph @ Jul 29 2009, 05:21 PM) *
Thanks Bogdan, but how long do I need to stay at the various speeds as I practice?


Someone said until you can play this lick 10-15 times without any mistakes. I mean every kind of mistake, wrong notes, noise etc... Some others said until you can't play it wrong biggrin.gif
It just a matter of discipline. If you raise the speed without playing the lick well, it's not a good idea. Sometimes you can push yourself beyond your limits for awhile and then go back to slower speed to see some improvements.


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Vasilije Vukmiro...
post Jul 29 2009, 10:51 PM
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I know what are you saying.
Simple tricks. After technique practice session, until you get close to desired tempo, stop. Stop, and relax for 15 minutes.
Pick up guitar, voila! Always works for me smile.gif
Good technique always comes when you least suspect!


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Ivan Milenkovic
post Jul 29 2009, 10:56 PM
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I agree with Jerry, it is important to keep ti precise and clean and know your limits and when to stop. Knowing these limits is something that comes with time as well, just as speed. In time you will learn when do you have to stop, rest, and how far can you push it until you must stop because you will actually go backwards. No point playing with any kinds of mistakes it has to be - perfect.


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Santiago Diaz Ga...
post Jul 30 2009, 02:13 AM
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Taking a nice rest is the clue to succeed in metronome practice. Your hands will leave the tension that accumulates when you get angry when things don't come out properly and you will face the exercise a lot more comfortable.


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Bogdan Radovic
post Jul 30 2009, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE (Santiago Diaz Garces @ Jul 30 2009, 03:13 AM) *
Taking a nice rest is the clue to succeed in metronome practice. Your hands will leave the tension that accumulates when you get angry when things don't come out properly and you will face the exercise a lot more comfortable.


Yeah this is also very important.

Raph, make sure you have "rest" days in your practice schedule. Make it once or two times a week when you won't play guitar at all, rather mentally study theory etc. That rest will prove as beneficial as actual practice, you need to allow your brain to rest and grasp all the new stuff you learned.


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lcsdds
post Jul 30 2009, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (Bogdan Radovic @ Jul 30 2009, 08:19 PM) *
Yeah this is also very important.

Raph, make sure you have "rest" days in your practice schedule. Make it once or two times a week when you won't play guitar at all, rather mentally study theory etc. That rest will prove as beneficial as actual practice, you need to allow your brain to rest and grasp all the new stuff you learned.

This is so TRUE Bogdan......Mentally I have a tough time taking a day off....but I ALWAYS play better when I pick up the guitar after a day or two off....great advice. smile.gif
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 31 2009, 01:16 PM
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I think you are doing good if you are playing lick 20 times. What I would add to your practice is 20 times in a row to play lick PERFECTLY!
This is much more effective and once you reach target tempo, you will have no need to start from beginning or drop tempos ever again.


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lcsdds
post Jul 31 2009, 01:23 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jul 31 2009, 01:16 PM) *
This is much more effective and once you reach target tempo, you will have no need to start from beginning or drop tempos ever again.

This is an interesting statement......have you found that to work well Pedja?
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 31 2009, 01:39 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 31 2009, 02:23 PM) *
This is an interesting statement......have you found that to work well Pedja?


Yes Monte !
This is method I have used for years and it helped me learn and master every little thing to detail that I know today. It is something that I also use a day before performance and day when performance is due. It perfectly warms up the technique and you get every little detail on your instrument before moving to tempos.

Now, with technical things, like lets say 16th note triplets above 100bpm... If you don't play technical music very often, technique will drop. Speaking of basic techniques and human tempos smile.gif, it is perfect method to use in order to master things.

Some people might suggest 5 times in a row before moving but I say 20 because thats a lot and it will really make you be professional about it. Sure it takes a lot of time but once you get all the techniques down you can then drop it to 10 or 15 times in a row when moving the tempos.


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lcsdds
post Jul 31 2009, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jul 31 2009, 01:39 PM) *
Yes Monte !
This is method I have used for years and it helped me learn and master every little thing to detail that I know today. It is something that I also use a day before performance and day when performance is due. It perfectly warms up the technique and you get every little detail on your instrument before moving to tempos.

Now, with technical things, like lets say 16th note triplets above 100bpm... If you don't play technical music very often, technique will drop. Speaking of basic techniques and human tempos smile.gif, it is perfect method to use in order to master things.

Some people might suggest 5 times in a row before moving but I say 20 because thats a lot and it will really make you be professional about it. Sure it takes a lot of time but once you get all the techniques down you can then drop it to 10 or 15 times in a row when moving the tempos.

What do you mean by the...."never drop it back down to the slower tempos" statement. Let's say I am trying to master a lick that is 16th triplets at 160 bpm.....are you saying once I can play it at 160 bpm that I shouldn't practice it slower anymore??? smile.gif

I've noticed.....like you pointed out....that if I don't keep working on my AP, legato, tapping etc.....especially if I go a week or so....that my technique really drops off. It comes back quickly as well.....but it definitely drops. smile.gif I practice at tempo for a minute which is really close to 20 repetitions I would imagine......the excercises I do are shorte 2-4 beat licks that I just cycle over and over.
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 31 2009, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 31 2009, 04:09 PM) *
What do you mean by the...."never drop it back down to the slower tempos" statement. Let's say I am trying to master a lick that is 16th triplets at 160 bpm.....are you saying once I can play it at 160 bpm that I shouldn't practice it slower anymore??? smile.gif

I've noticed.....like you pointed out....that if I don't keep working on my AP, legato, tapping etc.....especially if I go a week or so....that my technique really drops off. It comes back quickly as well.....but it definitely drops. smile.gif I practice at tempo for a minute which is really close to 20 repetitions I would imagine......the excercises I do are shorte 2-4 beat licks that I just cycle over and over.



Thats exactly the exception of the rule I was talking about smile.gif

16th triplets at 160 bpm are not human tempo. Thats something that falls under technique mastery and requires every day practice. With that sort of tempo you can't allow to stop working for a week or so. Of course it will take you time to get back to that tempo because fingers are not used to moving at that fast speed and coordinating with right hand.
Even when your tempo drop, if you did it right way with at least 20 repetitions of perfect playing, then you will get back to original 160bpm sooner then when you were going for it for the first time.

Again, 16th note triplets at 160bpm is not human tempo and requires every day work.
Ask Muris as I know you trust his technique ability lot more than mine ! wink.gif


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TheOldOnes
post Jul 31 2009, 07:21 PM
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Pedja - I have noticed that as well - once I get a riff up to speed (not overly fast picking but most rhythm and melodies) and perfectly played for about 20 times, I can forever do it at that speed pretty much perfectly. Takes patience though.

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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 31 2009, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE (TheOldOnes @ Jul 31 2009, 08:21 PM) *
Pedja - I have noticed that as well - once I get a riff up to speed (not overly fast picking but most rhythm and melodies) and perfectly played for about 20 times, I can forever do it at that speed pretty much perfectly. Takes patience though.


Patience discipline and determination. Thats all it takes. I think people are afraid to do that or avoid doing it simply because just thinking of 20 PERFECT repetitions makes you say - boring!
But thats the difference between professional (perfectionist) approach and somebody who just randomly plays things smile.gif


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lcsdds
post Jul 31 2009, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (Pedja Simovic @ Jul 31 2009, 07:00 PM) *
Thats exactly the exception of the rule I was talking about smile.gif

16th triplets at 160 bpm are not human tempo. Thats something that falls under technique mastery and requires every day practice. With that sort of tempo you can't allow to stop working for a week or so. Of course it will take you time to get back to that tempo because fingers are not used to moving at that fast speed and coordinating with right hand.
Even when your tempo drop, if you did it right way with at least 20 repetitions of perfect playing, then you will get back to original 160bpm sooner then when you were going for it for the first time.

Again, 16th note triplets at 160bpm is not human tempo and requires every day work.
Ask Muris as I know you trust his technique ability lot more than mine ! wink.gif

Not questioning you Pedja.....I trust/respect your abilities and methods. Just clarifying.....sometimes it's difficult to know exactly what we are both talking about when it is just text. Thanks for the clarification..... smile.gif
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Pedja Simovic
post Jul 31 2009, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE (lcsdds @ Jul 31 2009, 08:33 PM) *
Not questioning you Pedja.....I trust/respect your abilities and methods. Just clarifying.....sometimes it's difficult to know exactly what we are both talking about when it is just text. Thanks for the clarification..... smile.gif


Even if you were questioning it, I really have no problem with it Monte.
I might do a video for something using this technique after I come back from Greece.


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